Watemper said:Then what would your "QUALITY" interaction be? Because I assume VR insn't going to go down your route of an NPC tper...seems kind of lazy to me.
I don't know about quality intereaction, but it doesn't have to be an NPC vendor click either.
I've previously proposed that there be certain teleport routes between stone rings or mystical spires or shrines or whatever. They can be as remote and long/short a route as you like. To open those routes you have to have already been to the destination and done some attunement quest. To use those routes you have to, each time, harvest several 'key' items like fresh mistletoe in the zone around the stone ring or charged crystals around the mystical spires. Maybe they drop from monsters...
When you have a few you can consume them within the stone ring to teleport you and a group. Maybe you all should have a few or maybe just one each. Maybe you all have to have been the destination or maybe you can drag one each or maybe one can port all of a group. Perhaps it depends on the distance and level and how much mistletoe and maybe you have to additionally sacrifice gold other other expensive items for some destinations.
The point is, it can be a tough or easy as devs like and can vary.
Better, in my humble opinion, then just /who all taxiguild /tell taxiguy port to HC from AVP gates wait zap trade 10 gold making two classes rich and making travel either too convenient (if there's a taxiguy available) or too inconvenient (when taxiguy isn't available, but everyone is totally used to taxi-ports and won't wait for you to run to them).
Keno Monster said:Iksar said:While we are at it let's also get rid of player summoning, resurrection, movespeed buffs, invisibility, "clarity", and really all specialized utility spells from players and put them on buffing NPCs around the world. It's not fair that I am forced to spam for a rez, invis, corpse summon, movespeed, or mana regen buff. And don't get me started on damage shields, haste, and other buffs being sold to powerlevel.
They are worse than teleports because at least I can travel to any of the destinations without the spells, but no mattter what I can't do any of the other things without dealing with other players.
Come on man, this is some grade school level logical fallacy abuse.
Actually it's not, because people paid plat for those things too. It's a slippery slope and if we (we really being the devs) aren't careful, we won't have unique, distinct classes with their own unique charm anymore. Honestly, porting ain't that big of a deal.
My thoughts on fast travel: let us have some sort of portal system. Let us pick a portal to attune to and when we touch/quest another portal we can either attune to that one or portal back to our attuned portal. This makes the original journey meaningful and we can either choose to have an easy Corpse Run or an easy Vendor Run. Lets have these portals scattered at strategic locations and non-port classes can only attune to one portal. Let Dru/Wiz attune to multiple or all portals once they touch them or depending on ability/spell progression. Say lower level ability: Portal 1.0 you can only attune to 1 extra portal and as you progress in this ability you gain ability to attune to multiple portals. And maybe make some portals attune level specific so say you need to be level 50 to attune to this raid specific portal, but you can port back to your attuned portal.
The thing with port classes is that everyone that isnt a port class relies on them, just as they rely on tank classes to keep the mobs busy while they cast spells. There is a tradeoff, but if we are looking for options i think having a worldwide system inplace from the start would help. I just really really want to avoid any hub worlds.
Venjenz said:A bazaar channel, or many of them. WTS, WTB, WTT, tradeskill requests, MQ requests, etc. If it got really big, it could be separaed by class, tradeskill, stat buffed, etc. That's all an auction house really is. But why do the devs need to spend time making something the players can handle easily? I'd much rather have them spend time dealing with making sure a dungeon can hold 50 people and have zero lag.
I think you have a misunderstanding about what a consignment system (auction house) enables players to do vs. a barter system (chat channels). One requires both parties to be online to securely transact. The other does not. One heavily favors players who can spend the most real time engaged in advertising, haggling, and making deals. The other introduces a more level playing field in that regard. Success in one method hinges greatly upon a player's real-world social and communication skills, while success in the other method is more about being smart about price, quality, and location.
Regardless, I think the portion I highlighted is your real issue. Is it a fair statement to say that your opposition to this and other features is not rooted in their actual effects on gameplay, but instead based on your fear that VR won't be able to deliver on them and still deliver a polished, stable adventuring experience? Because that's what I'm getting out of your words.
It's ok if that's how you feel. It's a valid concern. Just be up front about it. If your worry is really that this will take priority over something that you think should be more important, let's talk about that. Or, if you truly feel that these ideas will lead to bad player behavior then let's talk about the experiences you've had that contribute to that perception. We may not end up agreeing but it's more likely that the rest of us will understand where you're coming from.
Porygon said:I think at minimum you should have:
Some form of damage meter in game.
The ability to mail items and money to players.
Some form of LFG tool.
A basic map with or without a location indicator.
Some form of fast travel after you discover a certain area or hit a certain level. (Once your maxxed idc about discovering the world).
Parcel/mail systems are dumb-down immersion breakers disguising as a convenience device
In game maps are are dumb-down immersion breakers disguising as a convenience device
All fast travel systems are dumb-down immersion breakers disguising as a convenience device
Parascol said:Actually it's not, because people paid plat for those things too. It's a slippery slope and if we (we really being the devs) aren't careful, we won't have unique, distinct classes with their own unique charm anymore. Honestly, porting ain't that big of a deal.
You're right, I totally misunderstood and retract my snark. My bad.
Iksar said:While we are at it let's also get rid of player summoning, resurrection, movespeed buffs, invisibility, "clarity", and really all specialized utility spells from players and put them on buffing NPCs around the world. It's not fair that I am forced to spam for a rez, invis, corpse summon, movespeed, or mana regen buff. And don't get me started on damage shields, haste, and other buffs being sold to powerlevel.
They are worse than teleports because at least I can travel to any of the destinations without the spells, but no mattter what I can't do any of the other things without dealing with other players.
Completly agree with you. This fast travel bs with npcs or portals are getting on my nerves. If you want to take a boat....you can, like BB to Freeport. But if I know one thing, once POK came out Everquest died a thousand deaths. Most zones became dead. Luckily in a recent interview with Brad and Chris on Game Space, they reiterated travel meaning something and the world feeling big. So I am confident they won't go down the easy portal or npc bs clickers.
Parascol said:Honestly, porting ain't that big of a deal.
Actually it can quickly become a very big deal if not limited. It just becomes a question of how convenient is that travel. Fast travel between a single point on each continent is a form of convenience yet still requires some time and effort to the complete the journey to the final destination. What could be introduced is mechanic similar to what was in Dark Ages of Camelot and, if memory serves, in EQ1 in Luclin (and maybe EQ2 also) where you walk up to an NPC to get a free token. The portal runs on a cycle, porting everyone in range that is holding the token, every 15 minutes or so. That way you get a free port to a set destination but you still end up paying for it with time.
Time is a much more valuable commodity than coin because you cannot 'farm' time like you can farm for coins so if you want NPC based transportation the best sink for those is forcing you to spend time waiting.
Vandraad said:Parascol said:Honestly, porting ain't that big of a deal.
Actually it can quickly become a very big deal if not limited. It just becomes a question of how convenient is that travel. Fast travel between a single point on each continent is a form of convenience yet still requires some time and effort to the complete the journey to the final destination. What could be introduced is mechanic similar to what was in Dark Ages of Camelot and, if memory serves, in EQ1 in Luclin (and maybe EQ2 also) where you walk up to an NPC to get a free token. The portal runs on a cycle, porting everyone in range that is holding the token, every 15 minutes or so. That way you get a free port to a set destination but you still end up paying for it with time.
Time is a much more valuable commodity than coin because you cannot 'farm' time like you can farm for coins so if you want NPC based transportation the best sink for those is forcing you to spend time waiting.
I guess what I've been trying to say is it was already proven ala EverQuest. I don't remember any token system in EQ. I remember paying Wizards, or sending tells to friends to get a port. Or I would walk.
It was glorious.
fazool said:Parcel/mail systems are dumb-down immersion breakers disguising as a convenience device
In game maps are are dumb-down immersion breakers disguising as a convenience device
All fast travel systems are dumb-down immersion breakers disguising as a convenience device
I honestly can't tellif you're being serious because you're response is so bad.
1) it's a video game. Everything that happens is immersion breaking.
2) how the hell is a mail system immersion breaking... like what,
Porygon said:fazool said:Parcel/mail systems are dumb-down immersion breakers disguising as a convenience device
In game maps are are dumb-down immersion breakers disguising as a convenience device
All fast travel systems are dumb-down immersion breakers disguising as a convenience device
1) it's a video game. Everything that happens is immersion breaking.
So have MORE of them because some already exist?
Even if they do a Fog of War map, I hope they implement cartography (sp?) with it. The lower your cartography skill, the less accurate your map is. By the time your skill is high enough, or if you've wandered around in that area enough for the "in game" map to be correct, you (as a IRL person) will already know the area. But it's still a map and could be marked with POI's.
Iksar said:I just don't like mail systems that allow money or items to be sent as they tend to be primarily used by RMT/Gold sellers and very infrequently otherwise, almost never if it weren't for the fact that most games send auction house purchases to the mail box.
It's interesting that your experience varies from mine so much - in most games I have played, I am constantly mailing things to friends/guildies. Whether it's that set of crafted stuff I made for them (because I don't want to wait for them to get out of their dungeon to trade it to them) or the prizes for the server event we have coming up or just a cool drop that I got that I know will surprise them and make them smile when they log in.
I agree that we shouldn't go out of our way to enable RMT activity in Pantheon but I feel like there are better ways to prevent it than by not having a mail system. Just my opinion though.
Not a word about maps I have said enough. Repeating an opinion neither makes it more persuasive nor increases its influence on VR. In fact the opposite may be possible.
Mail has been discussed before in the context of how should it be delivered, how long should it take and should there be areas between which mail will not go.
I would be quite content with having mail take significant time to arrive. Though logic does not compel this result in a world of magic - why wouldn't all the major mercantile hubs have instant delivery of mail between them if magical technology permitted such without excessive cost?
I would be quite content with mail costing the character a LOT more than we are used to. How can anyone stay in business sending mail thousands of units for 20 copper pieces? Lose money on each one but make it up in the volume?
I would be quite content with mail between hostile areas not being permitted. Pantheon will not be a faction based game but having certain races so hostile that they do not allow commerce with eachother and even treat the other race and its friends as kill-on-sight is entirely a different matter.
But not allowing any mail with any contents anywhere in Terminus at any cost? Iksar I think you are going a bit far on this one. If gold sellers are such a plague there are less drastic methods such as having filters on mail as many games have filters on chat.
As with Nephele my experience is that mail is frequently used by a very large percentage of normal players.
Porygon said:I honestly can't tellif you're being serious because you're response is so bad.
1) it's a video game. Everything that happens is immersion breaking.
2) how the hell is a mail system immersion breaking... like what,
There is a substantial psychological impact differential between living through your character in a virtual world and operating a video game.
fazool said:Porygon said:I honestly can't tellif you're being serious because you're response is so bad.
1) it's a video game. Everything that happens is immersion breaking.
2) how the hell is a mail system immersion breaking... like what,
There is a substantial psychological impact differential between living through your character in a virtual world and operating a video game.
Hard to define, well said.
Disposalist said: Bards could have instant fantasy emailing.
This totally popped into my head when I read this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UMHduT30s0
Sorry... didn't mean to derail the topic... just thought I'd bring some humor in to make everyone feel better :-)
fazool said:Porygon said:I honestly can't tellif you're being serious because you're response is so bad.
1) it's a video game. Everything that happens is immersion breaking.
2) how the hell is a mail system immersion breaking... like what,
There is a substantial psychological impact differential between living through your character in a virtual world and operating a video game.
Again. Thank you for the useless response.
My comment was directed at immersion because it seems to be the only defense most people bring up in attempts to try and avoid having systems and mechanics in the game they want.
You're sitting at a computer screen. Theres 24 inches between you and your monitor, you're not immersed. You're playing a video game. You're only using the immersion arguement because it suits you.
Why isnt it immersion breaking to see what color a mob cons?
Why isnt it immersion breaking to seen health bars of the other players and yourself.
Why isn't it immersion breaking to see combat text of exactly how much damage you take and give..
It's because you want those systems.... stop using this terrible arguement for things you dont wsnt and start coming up with a better reason to not have mail in the game. Cause i cant think of any reason why mail is "immersion breaking".
Iksar said:I just don't like mail systems that allow money or items to be sent as they tend to be primarily used by RMT/Gold sellers and very infrequently otherwise, almost never if it weren't for the fact that most games send auction house purchases to the mail box.
This is just dumb. I dont mean any disrespect to you, but there was massive RMT in EQ long before there was a parcel system.
And detecting RMTers through trading is increasingly difficult as there are tons of people that will pay insane amounts of money for help with quests, to tag along for raid loot, or even just for a rare item that makes them look different.
A mail system will not increase nor decrease the amount of RMT.
Porygon said:it's a video game. Everything that happens is immersion breaking.
There is something called 'willful suspension of disbelief' where, consciously, you stop looking at things with a critical mind, put aside logic and choose to believe in something that is surreal purely for the sake enjoyment. Through the suspension of disbelief you can then 'be immersed' into something like a book, movie or game even when there are blatantly obvious flags to the contrary.
Porygon said:Kittik said:What Quality of Life systems do we come to expect now a days that EQ didn't have on release? Or what are some you know of that we shouldn't have.
I think at minimum you should have:
Some form of damage meter in game.
The ability to mail items and money to players.
Some form of LFG tool.
A basic map with or without a location indicator.
Some form of fast travel after you discover a certain area or hit a certain level. (Once your maxxed idc about discovering the world).
Mail is a given, all mmos have mail as far as i'm aware.
Dps meter? Doesnt really serve any purpose, so i doubt it.
It will never have LFG, its not that type of game, though it could have a page where you can post your interest in wanting a group and look for others.
Maps are always nice, but being told exactly where to go is no fun, but not being told where to go and having to figure it out is a chore, if they find a way to merge both those things would be great.
Like telling us the general area to find something and leave the rest to us.
Fast travel will come with mounts, as for portals they may exist.
fast travel like in skyrim, where you can just port to places you've discovered, very unlikely.