One rare thing I didn't like in EQ, is that all the crafting materials came from killing mobs (except vendor materials).
Other games introduced clickable harvesting nodes and that was a good thing.
I think it's a good thing to have both : dropped materials, and harvestable nodes.
I can imagine an old mine dungeon having mining and plants nodes, in addition to just mobs farming spots.
I am of the opinion that you should be able to do both...
If you kill a miner, whatever he is mining should be on his loot table. If you happen to have a pick and know how to use it you should be able to mine your own. If there is a miner in the vacinity he should aggro you for claim jumping :)
Interactions with the environment should be checked by creatures around you. If you walk into a forest with an axe equipped it would be cool if brownies, treants, and other "protectors of the forest" were KOS. If a large exotic bird makes its nest in large trees and you are harvesting wood, I would hope it would aggro you.
Tweaking faction tables by equipping gear is something I've wanted for a while. I hope it was considered in the creation process.
Based on what Ceythos has shared so far, here's what we can expect:
1) Clickable harvesting nodes (similar to Vanguard, but no group harvesting for now). However, resource nodes will be seeded by geography rather than by level range, *and* will be fewer/farther between than most games.
2) Salvaging - breaking down dropped items/equipment to retrieve crafting materials
3) Loot drops from mobs
I don't think he's mentioned buying ingredients from vendors, but that could certainly happen too.
I think the best way to get info about Pantheon crafting is by watching Baz's interview with Corey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qG-RdZBD8
There hasn't been a lot of other information or in game look yet, but I would expect it's coming soon.
Anyone remember/played Asheron's Call, when it was live? It had a VERY complex salvaging system. Break down items to fill bags of material (depending on what you broke down). You could then use the bags to buff the equipment you wanted to keep. The more bags used, the harder it became to successfully apply the enhancement. If you failed, it destroyed the item.
Not asking it to be quite as complex, but it was a pretty awesome system. (imo)
I'm really hoping I can get near everything I need from salvaging, skinning and loot and only a little resource gathering.
I don't think Pantheon should be crafting-centric (sorry guys) in that you can do it to just from resource gathering.
If you need materials you can only get from an adventurer, then you should have to buy them from an adventurer.
They will surely be buying stuff from you, you'd hope, so it would be healthy to be a two-way thing.
Salvaging sounds especially good - I love the idea of not just trash-vending armor and loot from monsters. I also like the idea of salvaging even decent magical loot for components for 'special' crafting.
bigdogchris said:I think the best way to get info about Pantheon crafting is by watching Baz's interview with Corey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qG-RdZBD8
There hasn't been a lot of other information or in game look yet, but I would expect it's coming soon.
Yup, the only other supplemental reading to the interview would be the two newsletter articles on harvesting:
http://pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/crafting_and_harvesting/
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2018_january_harvesting/
Between all that, that's pretty much all the info we have on harvesting so far. But that should give you a pretty good idea of where it's headed.
Remeo said:Anyone remember/played Asheron's Call, when it was live? It had a VERY complex salvaging system. Break down items to fill bags of material (depending on what you broke down). You could then use the bags to buff the equipment you wanted to keep. The more bags used, the harder it became to successfully apply the enhancement. If you failed, it destroyed the item.
Not asking it to be quite as complex, but it was a pretty awesome system. (imo)
Nope.
Remeo said:Anyone remember/played Asheron's Call, when it was live? It had a VERY complex salvaging system. Break down items to fill bags of material (depending on what you broke down). You could then use the bags to buff the equipment you wanted to keep. The more bags used, the harder it became to successfully apply the enhancement. If you failed, it destroyed the item.
Not asking it to be quite as complex, but it was a pretty awesome system. (imo)
That reminds me of one related issue... bag space.
Resources is one area where I'd be quite happy for some unrealistic modern convenience with them taking no bag space.
Maybe you could have a Salvaging skill so that stuff taking up bag space could be broken down into resources that took no bag space? Would encourage people to produce crafting materials rather than just vendor-sell trash loot.
Searril said:Remeo said:Anyone remember/played Asheron's Call, when it was live? It had a VERY complex salvaging system. Break down items to fill bags of material (depending on what you broke down). You could then use the bags to buff the equipment you wanted to keep. The more bags used, the harder it became to successfully apply the enhancement. If you failed, it destroyed the item.
Not asking it to be quite as complex, but it was a pretty awesome system. (imo)
Nope.
Best post ever lol
disposalist said:That reminds me of one related issue... bag space.
Resources is one area where I'd be quite happy for some unrealistic modern convenience with them taking no bag space.
Maybe you could have a Salvaging skill so that stuff taking up bag space could be broken down into resources that took no bag space? Would encourage people to produce crafting materials rather than just vendor-sell trash loot.
I'm ok with a WoW style system where you can sacrifice a bag slot for a much larger crafting bag (but it can only hold that particular crafting material [ore, herbs, hides] ).
I don't think you should get any extra benefit in inventory space by being a crafter. You should have to choose. Do I want 10 regular slots, or 25 specific crafting slots...
Porygon said:disposalist said:That reminds me of one related issue... bag space.
Resources is one area where I'd be quite happy for some unrealistic modern convenience with them taking no bag space.
Maybe you could have a Salvaging skill so that stuff taking up bag space could be broken down into resources that took no bag space? Would encourage people to produce crafting materials rather than just vendor-sell trash loot.
I'm ok with a WoW style system where you can sacrifice a bag slot for a much larger crafting bag (but it can only hold that particular crafting material [ore, herbs, hides] ).
I don't think you should get any extra benefit in inventory space by being a crafter. You should have to choose. Do I want 10 regular slots, or 25 specific crafting slots...
Not by being a crafter, but by using a Salvaging skill. Doesn't have to be a crafter. Could just be a 'gathering' skill or could be that anyone can salvage stuff rather than vendor-sell it.
But I like the crafting bag idea too.
Trasak drags his soap box out, steps up onto it and chants, “Down with the Unit Volume System, Up with Realistic Volume System. Lists over Squares!!!!” “Why do 20 chain mail shirts, each made of 1000s of rings take up as much bag space as 20 gold rings, Its a conspiracy by the Bag Makers Union I tell you!!”
Seriously though crafting would benefit the most from list inventories over the one size fits all slot system. Volume would not be hard to add to items in a generic way. Then it wouldn't matter if there were 47 different types of hides that you would actually like to store in your bank for when you needed to make the exact right type of armor.
In this case its less about logic and more about UI design and ease of inventory management. I could actually see a case for ignoring volume all together and just make inventories like Skyrim and just be based on total weight. It would be a departure from EQ, WoW and what we have seen from the streams but the real question is why bother with square block bag space.
Square unit inventories are clunky to use and manage. You end up with your screen covered with bags as you move stuff around and sort your inventories. You throw away the wrong thing because it looks almost like the piece of junk you wanted to get rid of. It takes forever to find the one thing you want if you are terrible at organizing like me. The developers need to make a small art object to be the inventory icon. Its actually more difficult for the visually impaired to use.
Square unit inventories also effects complexity design decisions. If a player can only have a maximum of 80 spaces on their person and another 160 in the bank then it is very hard to justify an item quality based system as none of the items with the same name but different quality levels would be able to stack. I am not saying there are not still technological reasons to want to limit the size of your games item database but the limitation is at least an order of magnitude less restrictive then it was 20 years ago.
I like the idea of separating crafting components from loot drops more than EQ did. It does make sense that when you kill the goblin witchdoctor it may drop some alchemical components, however.
Mordecai said: So going Skyrim method based off of space and weight is basically the same thing no? You have X amount of inventory space, and Y amount of weight worth of items. You need to choose to dump items into a storage or not pick up items off corpses due to weight. That make sense? There were times in EQ (I know! Different game and not perfect!) that I would purposely opt out of loot because I was being encumbered. I also was a melee not caster so had no gate to go to home base. It’ll be a choice in the end what a player wants to elect to do right? As far as clunky... well that is a show of the person responsible for not magaging items they have stored lol.
My monk was always broke as a joke for that reason.
Mordecai said: As far as clunky... well that is a show of the person responsible for not magaging items they have stored lol.
You have obviously never really been a crafter. Needing to move objects around and fill all the spaces ends up being a combination of Jenga and Tetris. You may end up with 14 of one thing, 5 of another and 1 valuable thing you NEED to keep. So you end up with one 10 slot bag with 10 of the same things then another with 4 of one, five of another and 1 special item. Now you have a total of 8 bags on your person and 12 in the bank. The bags all look the same when closed and open at a what ever spot you closed it at last. Now multiply the number and types of items you are storing by a factor of 10 and you have an old fashion shell game with yourself.
VS a list where you can see everything at once, can pull out the few items you need into what ever slot/crafting station it needs to and is text search able and sort able.
Trasak said:Trasak drags his soap box out, steps up onto it and chants, “Down with the Unit Volume System, Up with Realistic Volume System. Lists over Squares!!!!” “Why do 20 chain mail shirts, each made of 1000s of rings take up as much bag space as 20 gold rings, Its a conspiracy by the Bag Makers Union I tell you!!”
Seriously though crafting would benefit the most from list inventories over the one size fits all slot system. Volume would not be hard to add to items in a generic way. Then it wouldn't matter if there were 47 different types of hides that you would actually like to store in your bank for when you needed to make the exact right type of armor.
I dont know any game that allows ringmail shirts to stack. And if it does it's probably not a good game. So I'm not really sure where you're going with this.
The problem with a realistic inventory system is that it will favor certain classes and tradeskills.
Casters have no need to carry 5 weapons on them, rangers and warriors might... now melee are not only at a disadvantage in combat (since they are in melee range) but also in terms of inventory.
Mining/blacksmithing would take up insane amounts of space... compared to something like skinning or leatherqorking.
I just dont see it as a system that would bring anything positive to the game.
Porygon said:I dont know any game that allows ringmail shirts to stack. And if it does it's probably not a good game. So I'm not really sure where you're going with this.
Its not that ringmail shirts do stack it is that rings with different names do not and there for take up as much bag space as the shirts.
Porygon said:The problem with a realistic inventory system is that it will favor certain classes and tradeskills.
Casters have no need to carry 5 weapons on them, rangers and warriors might... now melee are not only at a disadvantage in combat (since they are in melee range) but also in terms of inventory.
From my point of view inventory slots are more restrictive for melee classes than casters as you need to dedicate a greater % of your space to swap items than a caster does already. If you can pack away all the small, but high value items, you can get your fair share of the loot value rather than stoping at your 20th ring even though you could carry another 100 lbs of weight. Rarely are the big items more valuable by item slot then the gems and crafting collectables.
Porygon said:Mining/blacksmithing would take up insane amounts of space... compared to something like skinning or leatherqorking.
The volume will only be an issue for mining if crafting is based on quantity of combines and not the time spent crafting. Additionally if you are looking to make crafting a self sustaining system then there needs to be a limit on how quickly raw materials can become available but consistently available. If you need to drag multiple bags full of ore back to a smelter to condense the ore down to 4 large bar stocks then that is actually a good limitation mechanic. A smith could then spend several hours breaking down and forging with those 4 bar stocks until they have converted it all to items they want to keep for sale.
More or less I imagine that consumable ingredients and rare components will be small and light while core materials for permanent items will be large and heavy and therefor limited by inventory either by weight or volume regardless of the system. If every time you mined a mineral deposit the deposit would have different % of metals to be smelted out of it then none of the deposits would ever stack anyway.
Porygon said:I just dont see it as a system that would bring anything positive to the game.
And I see square unit inventories as a direct negative for the game. Both are opinions based on an emotional response.
The only real way to resolve it is to mock up both setups and let a few focus groups test it out and see which system is more enjoyable.