I was sitting here thinking tonight and I had an interesting idea for dragon encounters in Pantheon.
So, we know there are good and evil races. Why not good and evil dragons? Even to the point where good dragons wouldn't aggro good players and evil dragons wouldn't aggro evil characters, but the reverse would be true. Especially if dragons were "intelligent" creatuers that could speak, and possibly han out quests or wwhat not. I could see may be even to the point where dragons could give out spells to casters maybe.
This would be a different tack than EQ too where every dragon inherently aggroed on everyone.
Thoughts?
Maybe you didn't play enough EQ. Ther're numerous npc dragons that give quests.
As I understand it, various actions will affect your standing with different factions. I think it would be interesting to have 'representatives' of different 'species' placed in their 'strongholds' around Terminus, though those species shouldnt have their own standing, as they aren't an 'organised force', if you will.
Say, for example, that Faction A like dragons, but Faction B don't. You find a dragon rep on your travels, a do a couple of (probably menial) tasks for him. Dragons won't have faction, so performing those tasks for the rep won't stop other dragons from trying to eat you. It will, however, affect your standing with factions who feel either way about dragons. In other words, tasks for dragon gives you better standing with Faction A, but worsen your standing with Faction B.
Serena - Shuddering at the thought of helping a Spider Rep
SilkyWhip said:Maybe you didn't play enough EQ. Ther're numerous npc dragons that give quests.
Yes, I did play EQ. Dragon given quests were alot different in EQ. I'm talking about friendly (to you) dragons that you can interact with. Not quests that involve dragons. However, I can't account for anything post-2005, since that's when I quit.
I don't mean to simplify your idea. But you essentially just want npc dragons that give faction specific quests/ spells?
Because I don't see why this couldn't happen.
Also, depending on how you look at his request, this did not happen in EQ. You hadto specifically grind faction to be able to request or complete quests from dragons.
Porygon said:I don't mean to simplify your idea. But you essentially just want npc dragons that give faction specific quests/ spells?
Because I don't see why this couldn't happen.
Also, depending on how you look at his request, this did not happen in EQ. You hadto specifically grind faction to be able to request or complete quests from dragons.
Essentially, yes, boild down, yeah, that's it. There could be alot more done with it. Maybe even jsut "interactions" with them too. Or they could tell you where an interesting spot was.
Kalok, there were multiple dragons that give quests if you had good faction with them...but were also raid targets that dropped raid loot in EQ if your faction was bad. Like anything though...as others pointed out. Whether a mob will agro you or not has always been based on a specific faction. Not simply good/evil. I don't think that was your main point though. I don't think you wanted there to simply be a good/evil faction did you? Because then that doesn't have to include dragons specifically.
I think you meant a system similar to the west/east wings of ToV where you have faction with some dragons and can interact with them and are kos to others. Is that right?
philo said:Kalok, there were multiple dragons that give quests if you had good faction with them...but were also raid targets that dropped raid loot in EQ if your faction was bad. Like anything though...as others pointed out. Whether a mob will agro you or not has always been based on a specific faction. Not simply good/evil. I don't think that was your main point though. I don't think you wanted there to simply be a good/evil faction did you? Because then that doesn't have to include dragons specifically.
I think you meant a system similar to the west/east wings of ToV where you have faction with some dragons and are kos to others. Is that right?
Correct. I mean more than an all/none kind of thing. I mean factions just like "race" NPCs have.
I look at the idea in this way. If terminus is made up of pieces of other worlds, and dragons were responsible for either tearing apart those worlds or guiding the remnant of the world to terminus, then I can see Certain dragons being pre-disposed to certain races, based on their starting city and geographical location.
I would like to see some faction interplay between dragons that can only be attempted once you have gained faction with the people. Or in an "avatar"-esque way have not gained faction with the people but gained faction with the land the people are on. A sort of spiritual gaia thing that the dragon senses.
Dragons could have different spell types, and if you get faction with an opposing or different faction you can get a different type of spell within your class line living codex that is unique. So like, you have snare, and then snare with poison roots as a branch in the living codex. If you can make friends with another dragon, you may quest or learn their fire abilities, that will be forced into or overwrite the last spot in your codex branch to be asphyxiating lava puddle which would be a weak snare, but with more fire damage and a small slow from choking on the fumes. The final normal snare would be better, but the additional facets of the lava puddle would balance it, sort of. The question would always be there in the players mind.
If dragons are rare, to even get the dragon spell or questline would be rare.
Assuming we come accross dragons in Pantheon, i don't know how kindly they would react to interlopers to thier world. I would like to see this with other races throughout the world though.... i get the impression there is a good giant sect? There could be good and evil ratkin? I am thinking alot of the evil type stuff will be on the evil continent and the good type stuff on the good continent and a mix or just plain kos to all on the third continent? I would like to be able to faction like in velious era eq to gain faction towards a good or evil dragon sect or any other racial sect. Of course there will also be enemies to all on all continents, but i'm throwing some assumptions into this.
So it comes down to..... based on lore..... who would be more likely to associate with interlopers? But can we faction to make things in our favor? How robust will the factions be?
I think this is a good idea; my only hope is that they give some kind of tooltip the first time you target an NPC of a specific faction - like an entry into a log that you can later go back and look at that identifies what the factions actually mean. Like "Brotherhood of the Silent Order" is associated to Dark Myr, Rogue/black market traders, and is opposed by "Sisters of the Howling Moon" which is associated to etc etc. So during the first year of gameplay when a Orc player has been killing halfing NPCs and they choose to venture forth knowing that their standing with the Sisters of the Howling Moon is bad, they know that it is associated to the Elf and Halfling cities but doesn't affect their standing with the dwarven or gnome area... or if they know that killing frogloks increases their standing with Thronefast they can choose to kill those instead *shrug*
List of some of the factions in EQ... clicking on one will show the +/- for those unfamiliar.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/flist.html
Your faction standing with Ankhefenmut has gotten worse!
Your faction standing with Ankhesenaten has gotten worse!
Your faction standing with Ankhetperure has gotten worse!
Your faction standing with Ankhnesmerira has gotten worse!
Your faction standing with Zazamaharat has gotten better!
Your faction standing with Zazamanhu has gotten better!
Your faction standing with Zazamoukh has gotten better!
Your faction standing with Zazaphenebti has gotten better!
That's an actual faction hit... WTF?!?
I would hope they keep it easy to understand. Like racial factions listed as races in the faction list? Organizations listed as organizations in the faction list? And not so much individual entities like boss mobs? Maybe more of a backside faction standing listing like the skill window? Once you either increase or decrease a faction it shows up in the window? Faction standing out of lets say 1000 or something? Zero faction is KOS, 500 faction is neutral, 1000 faction is they would bend over backwards for you? So you would open up an inventory toggle window and have a listing of ratkin (500), halflings (1000), snakes (0). Just an idea. Not trying to revamp any current system. But instead of listing factions on every kill and creating spam - just say something like "Your faction has been modified." Or "A new faction modifier has been added."
Thoughts?
Manouk said:I look at the idea in this way. If terminus is made up of pieces of other worlds, and dragons were responsible for either tearing apart those worlds or guiding the remnant of the world to terminus, then I can see Certain dragons being pre-disposed to certain races, based on their starting city and geographical location.
I would like to see some faction interplay between dragons that can only be attempted once you have gained faction with the people. Or in an "avatar"-esque way have not gained faction with the people but gained faction with the land the people are on. A sort of spiritual gaia thing that the dragon senses.
It wasn't the dragons that brought the races to Terminus, but the dragons did make a deal ("The Dragon Accord") with some kind of entity/power that surpasses the various patheons of gods allowing the races to be deposited there. Since then the dragons have mostly disappeared entirely.
Iksar said:Manouk said:I look at the idea in this way. If terminus is made up of pieces of other worlds, and dragons were responsible for either tearing apart those worlds or guiding the remnant of the world to terminus, then I can see Certain dragons being pre-disposed to certain races, based on their starting city and geographical location.
I would like to see some faction interplay between dragons that can only be attempted once you have gained faction with the people. Or in an "avatar"-esque way have not gained faction with the people but gained faction with the land the people are on. A sort of spiritual gaia thing that the dragon senses.
It wasn't the dragons that brought the races to Terminus, but the dragons did make a deal ("The Dragon Accord") with some kind of entity/power that surpasses the various patheons of gods allowing the races to be deposited there. Since then the dragons have mostly disappeared entirely.
I'd even dare to say, that this accord has been made because the dragons are either from the sea or from the air, but none seems beeing tied to earth level.
Iksar said:I don't think there are any sea dragons, the lore says they were utterly destroyed.
To my understanding, only their leader has been destroyed, for Rok'unabletoremember to reign over both air and sea. Maybe I got it wrong, but my guess is they all bowed in front of him.
I am supportive (of course) of having a world filled with epic encounters like this, both good and evil raid encounters. I liked the Velious faction system. Of course I want them to be special. I don't want to walk around and see them everywhere though, because it would quickly lose its novelty, i.e. Istaria.
kreed99 said:I would hope they keep it easy to understand. Like racial factions listed as races in the faction list? Organizations listed as organizations in the faction list? And not so much individual entities like boss mobs? Maybe more of a backside faction standing listing like the skill window? Once you either increase or decrease a faction it shows up in the window? Faction standing out of lets say 1000 or something? Zero faction is KOS, 500 faction is neutral, 1000 faction is they would bend over backwards for you? So you would open up an inventory toggle window and have a listing of ratkin (500), halflings (1000), snakes (0). Just an idea. Not trying to revamp any current system. But instead of listing factions on every kill and creating spam - just say something like "Your faction has been modified." Or "A new faction modifier has been added."
Thoughts?
Other games have had systems similar to this and I think it worked well without breaking game immersion or oversimplifying anything.
MauvaisOeil said:To my understanding, only their leader has been destroyed, for Rok'unabletoremember to reign over both air and sea. Maybe I got it wrong, but my guess is they all bowed in front of him.
"Rok'Nhilthamos was, or rather "is", a beast of such mythic size and strength that he was finally able to lead the Dragons of Air, named the Rhy'Vulrene, to utterly defeat their rivals beneath the sea, the Sol'Kromane."
Iksar said:MauvaisOeil said:To my understanding, only their leader has been destroyed, for Rok'unabletoremember to reign over both air and sea. Maybe I got it wrong, but my guess is they all bowed in front of him.
"Rok'Nhilthamos was, or rather "is", a beast of such mythic size and strength that he was finally able to lead the Dragons of Air, named the Rhy'Vulrene, to utterly defeat their rivals beneath the sea, the Sol'Kromane."
But ..... what if they had left eggs and there are some hidden sea dragons?
Let's wait and see what interpretation is true here, as it's really vague and "tale oriented" to be either false or true. Anyway, dead or alive, their realm belong to the air dragons.