So I was just having a few thoughts about consumables and thought of some questions since I didn't want to make any assumtions. Also, this is not meant to be a request for any of these things because some of them I don't know if they would be great ideas, I'm more asking for what VR has planned in regards to these kinds of things not suggesting what I personally want.
1) Will there be Healing and Mana consumables (potion or scroll)? If yes, is there a plan to have a cooldown on their use or can they be consumed over and over in rapid use? (I only include this because I don't want to assume, but I'm pretty sure Brad already talked about healing potions)
2) Will there be buff consumables (potion or scroll)? If Yes, will these consumables be unique buffs you would be able to use all the time or a non-stackable lesser version of class buffs (ie You only use them if you can't get the true full buff from a member of your party as the Player buff would overwrite the lesser consumable version).
3) Will there be temporary weapon enchantment type of consumables? Such as a poison you dip your weapon in, or a scroll that when read will temporarily add a fire proc to your weapon. Or something similar.
4) Will there be resurrection consumables that could be used if a Cleric or other ressing class is not around?
5) Will there be Teleportation consumables that will transport you to your home (such as a recall stone) or that will Evacuate you to the entrance of a dungeon.
6) Will there be consumables that will clear crowd control effects from the user (obviously usable even when crowd controlled)? If yes what kind of cooldown length would be likely?
7) Will there be consumable that will grant a momentary (perhaps a few seconds) immunity to damage? If yes what kind of cooldown length will be likely?
8) Will there be vanity type consumables that don't really give any combat related bonus but rather just other effects such as Illusions, fireworks, or creates a temporary object like a chair or a campfire or something like that. Or like a guild poster you can put up that leaves your guilds crest on the wall for like 10 minutes.
9) Not only applying to consumables, but what will be the limits on stack sizes of consumables in your inventory? Will we need a new inventory slot after 20 potions in a stack, or can we carry 600 healing potions all in 1 inventory slot?
10) Will there be Wand/Staff type consumables that will have charges. Will they be rechargable?
I understand that perhaps VR doesn't want to really answer all these questions at this point in their development so I know it's a long shot to get a responce, but these are just some of the thoughts I had regarding what kind of consumables will be available. Some if implemented may be rare or expensive or perhaps even require a quest or some other difficulty to obtain. Some might be craftable.
Anyone else have any questions regarding consumables that I didn't think of yet?
The type of consumable I am most interested in would be those that are associated with the "force pop" mechanic. It would basically serve as a way for players to spawn different NPC's.
I would also be curious about keys. Could there be chests or doors that require a consumable key?
I would hope that potions to restore power or health will be makable by crafters and that either they will not be ubiquitous world drops or the crafter version will be better. #Supportyourlocal crafters!
I would hope that if there is food (to give buffs and/or restore power or health) ditto.
While keys are not intrinsically evil, they are *so* associated with in-game stores and pay-to-win in most of our minds that I am not sure they would be a good idea.
On the other hand, chests that can *only* be opened by a rogue/burglar type class by using a lockpick skill that goes up with practice/level and with a lockpick device perhaps a craftable item - now there is something I would find enormously more attractive. That is definitely a very good class-related skill adding non-combat value to a class or two.
I'm fine with consummable, I just hope they don't end up mandatory/ trivial like in Wow or Eso where they are accounted in your gameplay and you are litteraly a drug addict.
Long cooldowns (5min+) with short duration/effects are for me a necessity to make them tough choices and decision, and not some kind of "secondary ability".
GoofyWarriorGuy said:So I was just having a few thoughts about consumables
I think the first thing to say is that potion cooldowns are typically the norm, and they vary based on how powerful the effect is. I cannot imagine this game without variable potion cooldowns.
1) 100% will be in the game. These are both very common.
2) 100% will be in. I imagine not stackable, more of a filler if a buff isn't available.
3) 75% would be included. Again these are becoming normal for mmos. I would love to see them as temporary though.
4) highly doubt this would be in game, these would be insanely powerful.
5) maybe, but probably not at first. As they would greatly reduce the travel issues that I think thr developers want to have early on.
6) this is typically more pvp oriented. I wouldn't imagine seeing the early on.
7) possible very short duration, very long cooldown. But not probable.
8) very high possibility. Doesnt hurt anything.
9) I feel like stacks of 20 are very common. With tradeskill items potentially more.
10) I cannot imagine this game existing without "clickies" as they were such a huge part of eq.
These are my opinions.
I fully support consumables.
They provide good value to the game. They help prevent abuse of powerful abilities, they help balance the game, and they remove money from the game world.
An example would be Rogue Alchemy Abilities. Abilities like that should consume reagents, vials of potions, or something similar.
Plus it’s just cool roleplaying wise to have abilities that are so powerful that they consume the energy of a reagent to cast.
MauvaisOeil said:I'm fine with consummable, I just hope they don't end up mandatory/ trivial like in Wow or Eso where they are accounted in your gameplay and you are litteraly a drug addict.
..
This is exactly what happened in EQ.
The problem was that mana potions were tradeskilled and so, became trivial to make and were super inexpensive. I don't remember the exact numbers but, for example, on progression servers you could buy a 10-stack for 15 pp. So, it cost you 1.5pp per potion which lasted ~20 minutes.
Without the mana potion I regened mana at like 10mp/tick. With mana potion I regened mana at 14mp/tick. That's a 40% increase in OOC regen.
As a pure caster, this equated almost directly to how much damage I could do and therefore how many mobs I could kill.
With a potion I could kill >30% more mobs in the same 20 minute period, and I would get >30% more trash loot doing it. That would *ALWAYS* more than offset the cost of the potion.
So, the potion should have been something to have for a rare use, like when a big fight was coming up or once a day or something and it should have cost more than it rewarded to buy & use it.
Instead, it became a normal thing to just buy 100 mana potions, load up a backpack and never be without one ever.
I am going to respectfully disagree in principle.
Any consumable that has an effect that ever requires re-application is a direct disservice to any other player that could potentially provide the same/similar effect. Fellow players providing the same benefits time and time again are a great thing, and is a missed opportunity if they come from some inventory consumable.
And if no class can cast that potential spell or otherwise share the effect, then it it is a perfect opportunity for VR to create the skill.
Outside of a quest or storyline, I have never felt excited to ever receive make or use a potion in an MMO. I do like the effects, but I would much rather have received the effect from various members of the community and made lots of friends, rather than carry a lifetime supply of consumables I bought off some vendor, auction house, or single crafter once.
oneADseven said:The type of consumable I am most interested in would be those that are associated with the "force pop" mechanic. It would basically serve as a way for players to spawn different NPC's.
I would also be curious about keys. Could there be chests or doors that require a consumable key?
It would be such a cool mechanic. Players that made the efforts to build a faction or perhaps finished a long serie of quests would be able to "force pop" a boss or a ability master to get access to the legendary class abilities.
FlushingToiletScreamingShower said:Outside of a quest or storyline, I have never felt excited to ever receive make or use a potion in an MMO. I do like the effects, but I would much rather have received the effect from various members of the community and made lots of friends, rather than carry a lifetime supply of consumables I bought off some vendor, auction house, or single crafter once.
I understand you sentiment.. but that's not always a realistic expectation. If im deep in old seb camping a ToD. Theres probably not anyone within 50 mobs of me. This is when I would choose to use my supply of potions
FlushingToiletScreamingShower said:
Outside of a quest or storyline, I have never felt excited to ever receive make or use a potion in an MMO. I do like the effects, but I would much rather have received the effect from various members of the community and made lots of friends, rather than carry a lifetime supply of consumables I bought off some vendor, auction house, or single crafter once.
Couldn't agree more
Be mindful that it's from 2014, but there actually is an Aradune blog post about his thoughts on consumables:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/blogs/151/57/consumables-combat-tedious-or-tactical
Joppa will eventually release more updated/actual info about consumables in Pantheon though, because currently there is next to none.
Porygon said:GoofyWarriorGuy said:So I was just having a few thoughts about consumables
I think the first thing to say is that potion cooldowns are typically the norm, and they vary based on how powerful the effect is. I cannot imagine this game without variable potion cooldowns.
1) 100% will be in the game. These are both very common.
2) 100% will be in. I imagine not stackable, more of a filler if a buff isn't available.
I think the logic that because it's common in other games therefore it will "100%" be in Pantheon is highly flawed. I very seriously doubt we will see the traditional healing potion. Maybe a potion that gives you the regen buff. Mana regen potions are even less likely, imo.
Not a huge fan of consumables other than food and water. I like the idea of different kinds of food / drink having different effects, such as rates of health and mana regen, increased stamina, length between famished and thirsty, etc. - and I really like the idea of it being player crafted.
But never been a huge fan of potions. Even SoWpots in EQ rubbed me the wrong way. If you can get the effect another way, why make a potion? Isn't that the first step to trivialization?
Though I suppose, considering the announced alchemist class, they'll be there. Not a deal breaker for me by any means - just hope I won't be obligated to take the darn things.
=Edit= I DO kinda like the idea of very rare spell scrolls. Like a rogue using a Magic Missile scroll in DnD when he's in a pinch. But I'd hope they were very, VERY rare, craftable, and incredibly expensive.
I consider food and drink to be good consumables- and think in a average game day one should eat and drink or auto-consume at least 4 times during 2/3rds of the game day (not RL). if you stay up, then you consume 7 or 8 meals and drink in a game day. Fatigue would also need to be factored in.
I think its important that food and drink be consumed fairly quickly. I would like to see mechanics like; where jerky lasts a bit longer but you dont get as much nutrients so you are MORE hungry (needy of real food) when the jerky is done, like 2 meals worth or running through desert means you drink twice as much, lava 3 -4 times as much, or running uses more food.
Unfortunately I dont know how much coding would be needed to enable let alone balance the food items against the huge list of possible food items. Perhaps some coding of existing calorie meters like fitbit to the Player character wether they are running or walking or sitting determines calorie useage compared to the hidden calorie availability in the food that the player learns by experiencing it (wow, running made me eat all my apple pies! if I remember I had a sandwich last time and I took the last bite as I made it accross the plateau), or muscle mag "bulking" or "cutting" diet plans, beauty mag weight loss plans translated in game as +cha instead of "lose 20 pounds in 10 days!" to enchanter types maybe.
Or even delayed buffs, start to eat "better" and after a few weeks or month in-game time you see a small STR boost if "bulking up" from eayting foods from a recipe you got from Ogres, or the Skar "de-tox" plan you learn from being in their hostile environment that gives a small boost to poison mitigation (not resist), or "halfling pops!" that casters seek for an almost sugar-high like alertness and quicknmess of movement.
Keno Monster said:I think the logic that because it's common in other games therefore it will "100%" be in Pantheon is highly flawed. I very seriously doubt we will see the traditional healing potion. Maybe a potion that gives you the regen buff. Mana regen potions are even less likely, imo.
I respectfully disagree. Even though they are trying to make a more "old school" game, I think that these are going to 100% be in the game. Not everything from new school mmos is bad. And I personally dont think being able to provide yourself with a small heal or regen a portion of mana during battle is going to drastically change the outcome of anything.