You know, I tried to search to see if something here was brought up before, couldn't find anything, and I know PRoTF isn't all about PvP, and their main focus is PvE, but I figured I'd add this because maybe it is something they may be interested in working on in the future, just to spice the game and industry up a little bit.
Now, I have 2 ideas, both of them I would love to play, but I'm sure I'm not thinking of something when bringing this up, like an exploit or something that I'm not thinking about maybe.
Anyways, idea 1 is 2 raid forces go after the same boss, obviously this would have to be instanced, I know if VR is reading this they just winced at that word. But, hear me out lol. So 2 raids going after same boss, basically, they will be graded, not by how quickly they defeat it, but by how well they perform overall. Basically, you get points for having the fewest allies take damage from an AoE so it will look like this:
Team A: Did proper fight, following all mechanics and avoiding as many AoE's as possible
Time: 5 minutes 32 seconds to kill boss
Gains
5 points for time
20 points for fewest amount of allies hit with AoE's
20 Points for fewest amount of allies that were killed
10 points for executing mechanics the most, such as throwing a switch or whatever other mechanics the boss may have
Losses
10 points for slowest kill
10 points for amount of allies that died during fight (1 point per ally dead)
7 points for allies hit by AoE's (1 point per ally hit by AoE, just assuming tank ate AoE's here for numbers sake)
1 point for missing mechanics (They failed to flip a switch 1 time)
Total +22 points
Team B - Ate every AoE just to kill the boss faster.
Time: 3 minutes 13 seconds
10 Points for Time
20 points for fastest time to clear
20 points for hardest hit on boss (Compared both teams, we will say Team A's hardest hit was 27k and Team B's hardest hit was 28k)
20 points for most DPS against boss
Losses -
10 points most amount of allies hit by AoE's
10 points most amount of allies killed during fight
10 points for executing mechanics the least
15 points for allies that died during fight (1 point each)
10 points for allies hit by AoE's (1 each)
10 points for most allies hit by AoE's
Total: +5 points
Team A won only because they played it safe and instead of burning the boss they took their time and executed mechanics correctly. Obviously, this isn't perfected and the numbers are just made up, but i would like to see a balance (If this was implemented) between taking your time and straight burning a boss, so both ways are viable, obviously team B wasn't on their game because their healers need to keep them dudes alive and what not, but if say they had some amazing healers and kept them all alive team B could have won. But this system would be cool to see, at some point, and if it can be balanced or even doable.
On to idea number 2. This idea is much more simple than the idea above. Still would have to be instanced (I know I can feel Brad wincing just reading this), but it would be player Vs. player in a different style. Basically, one team takes the form of the boss and his adds. Now, the boss must follow all threat mechanics, but while controlling the boss you have free reign over his abilities, which means you can use them once cooldown is up, or just whenever you feel like to throw the raid team off. However, if the tank is highest threat, the boss must be using his auto attack on the tank. Whoever is alive at the end is the winner and earns loot. The loser, well, it's a wipe lol. So say there are 24 man raids, again, I'm just making up numbers, boss has an ability to call in adds, 3 at a time, just like normal enemies except they are controlled by your allies. The other 2 are with the initital pull, making 24. The boss will say have an ability that temporarily buffs his atk dmg, and an aoe, whoever is controlling the boss can use the 3 skills, call adds, buff atk, and AoE whenever he pleases. This could throw off the enemy team at any point. There could be hundreds of different mechanics in there, that could be pro boss and pro raid force. That would be up the devs obviously, this is not an idea that i have put a heck of a lot of thought into because I have no idea how the system would really work, but im sure the devs could figure it out if they chose to.
Anyways, thoughts? Comments? Complaints? I'd love to hear it, I only came up with this because I hate actualy PvP where I gotta fight another person, I suck so bad at it that a level 10 could kill my max level guy... ok maybe that's too far, but you get the picture, anyways, i would participate in this type of pvp any day. This sounds fun to me. So, let me know what you think!
eldrun said:I think this is less PvP and Is a more PvE score board or event.
in PvP servers mobs are contested so in a way one guild may indeed help the boss against the other guild to wipe them and then take the boss for themselves.
Well, it's still PvP tho, are you not going up against an enemy guild? Sure it's not head to head PvP, but it's still PvP, especially the second idea. You are going up against other players, and it's a different form of PvP, but you are still one team vs another.
If you're able to kill a boss without following mechanics then the mechanics arent threatening enough or the boss is too easy!
I would like to see the first idea implemented but on a "test boss" so to speak. Neither guild has any idea what the fight is, what the mechanics are etc. And you get 3 attempts to try and kill the boss. The teams are graded on not only execution of the fight, but recovery time after wipes.
Porygon said:If you're able to kill a boss without following mechanics then the mechanics arent threatening enough or the boss is too easy!
Lol sorry, I'm not super creative i was just trying to come up with something to make it seem more complex than i can really come up with...
Like mentioned, the first idea is not pvp...which is fine. But I don't get it. Why would you want to instate a point system that micromanages how players encounter a boss?
The second idea, players controling npc's didn't work in EQ for the brief time it was active in the early 2000s. Your idea goes about it differently, but there are so many reasons why it wouldn't be feasible that I don't think it is even worth discussing.
Both ideas sound like they belong in a battle arena competition type of game and not in Pantheon.
This to me is a very blue version of ”PvP” (its essentially a team server micro game) without fighting each other. It’s a micromanaged grading system of opinionated “i liked that way better” which would have to be basically watched by a GM taking his time away from other things. It’s a interesting idea but I think they have other concepts/development way higher priority, no offense. Not really sure that fits anywhere near this topic of PvP. Guild/group vs another friendly competition?
Make PvE fights challenging, hard to figure out, done multiple ways, various ai changing fights every time. This is what I’d like to see, rather than a micro game to justify who PvEs better.... get the loot, kill people with it however you want/can obtain it.
As far as PvP goes, it should never be instanced/qued/easy mode, if one guild/group is there trying to take on a hard boss/camp... it’s simple, you kill them and take it. Then link them the loots just to get a rise, then say see you on the field. ;)
Dubah said: ... Now, I have 2 ideas, ...
Love the idea of scoreboards and competitive stats for PvE activities. Great idea.
The idea of having players control NPCs is problematic. The reality is, it could be used for negative manipulation, and likely wouldn't end up being used the way it was intended. There are a whole bunch of logical deconstructions that you'll go through, but ultimately, unless it doesn't matter in the slightest, you have to plan for the "opposing" player who does nothing, or ends up doing everything perfectly, and is no more challenging than the script would be normally. It's a great idea in concept, but execution fails because humans can be evil.
However, one thing I have discussed in the past is the idea of indirect or insulated PvP via NPCs, which these two ideas are, and there are areas where it can be done or theorycrafted with great logical success. One such example is using NPC guilds for services that can result in a temporally throttled event affecting another player positively or negatively. That's intentionally vague because there's a lot of options, but I can elaborate more if desired.
Unfortunately, you're going to meet some resistance with these ideas from a small subset of very vocal players that believe that unless you're reducing another players hit points to zero, yourself, directly, it's not PvP. I don't agree with that assertion, but many do. :)
I saw this mentioned a couple of times, but simply put I'm not asking for this at launch lol, or even for them to be concerned about at any point in time. It was just an idea that I thought could be cool to see if done right. I'd rather have a really good pve experience than any pvp at all. I probably will never participate in PvP.
Now, as far as the this isn't PvP arguments go, I don't see how this isn't a PvP type of system, it would actually probably fall under like a PvPvE kind of this, but still you're going up against other players, with an ultimate goal of beating them, whether it's beating their own score or not. It's still the same, that being said there is no real definition for PvP, really can't be, so this would be my OPINION of a good PvP system that I would play in. Some might think it isn't PvP at all, but the definition of PvP is very opinionated, and not everyone will define it the same way.
I'm sorry but I will echo what everyone else said...this is not PvP. There is not really an opiniated definition of what PvP is...it's Player vs Player. Not Guild vs Raid Mob vs Mechanic vs Scoreboard.
Now if the devs want to implement some form of leaderboard on raid targets to see which guild does it better and more efficiently...sure, that's cool. Still not PvP though.