vigilantee13 said:Not a fan of this concept. Just seems like an attempt to make the game easier. Just my 2 cp.
With all due respect sir, you have missed the point. The idea of a great game it to give the player a multiple challenges with multiple tools to overcome. As a designer if you insist you must grind with a sword to point A, that is a very dull game.
Having a buff campfire safe spot, to me dumbs the game down. As I said I'm not a fan of this idea and that's my right. This is why people choose a safe area to set up a camp to pull to. You rest and regenerate at normal rest rate and resume.
To me it's like campfires are like adding clarity and regeneration to speed up the process, on top of already buffed clarity and regenerate (example spells for clarity sake). If this isn't what you're talking about then I digress, but this is what it read like to me and I'm opposed.
vigilantee13 said:Having a buff campfire safe spot, to me dumbs the game down. As I said I'm not a fan of this idea and that's my right. This is why people choose a safe area to set up a camp to pull to. You rest and regenerate at normal rest rate and resume.
To me it's like campfires are like adding clarity and regeneration to speed up the process, on top of already buffed clarity and regenerate (example spells for clarity sake). If this isn't what you're talking about then I digress, but this is what it read like to me and I'm opposed.
To be fair, i think the campfire should also attract some unwanted guests, not just a safe spot for your allies.
I do agree with you for the most part tho, if it's only beneficial then it's kind of pointless, it also needs to have some negative effects.
disposalist said:It's no different than casters casting group regen or buff spells. Yeah, why not open that kind of thing up to other classes and different methods?
Yes sir, but its not a character buff but a locale buff based in the actual environment. You need to stay close to derive the benefit and choose your location carefully. (If a mob breaks camp, game over!)
Its just adds another level of complexity to affect the outcome of the adventure!
Dubah said:vigilantee13 said:Having a buff campfire safe spot, to me dumbs the game down. As I said I'm not a fan of this idea and that's my right. This is why people choose a safe area to set up a camp to pull to. You rest and regenerate at normal rest rate and resume.
To me it's like campfires are like adding clarity and regeneration to speed up the process, on top of already buffed clarity and regenerate (example spells for clarity sake). If this isn't what you're talking about then I digress, but this is what it read like to me and I'm opposed.
To be fair, i think the campfire should also attract some unwanted guests, not just a safe spot for your allies.
I do agree with you for the most part tho, if it's only beneficial then it's kind of pointless, it also needs to have some negative effects.
Again, its about layering complexity, adding role-play opportunities, and some strategic opportunities to group play, and certainly not about "dumbing the game down". Quite the opposite actually. (This isn't a happy rainbow place where you are safe and gain 100% life immediatley) If you chose an an appropriate camp spot and acted appropriately you gain an advantage otherwiise you might have been better off just trudging on. Think about it in real life? On a journey up a mountain wouldn't you need to camp once in a while?
Thomm said:Dubah said:vigilantee13 said:Having a buff campfire safe spot, to me dumbs the game down. As I said I'm not a fan of this idea and that's my right. This is why people choose a safe area to set up a camp to pull to. You rest and regenerate at normal rest rate and resume.
To me it's like campfires are like adding clarity and regeneration to speed up the process, on top of already buffed clarity and regenerate (example spells for clarity sake). If this isn't what you're talking about then I digress, but this is what it read like to me and I'm opposed.
To be fair, i think the campfire should also attract some unwanted guests, not just a safe spot for your allies.
I do agree with you for the most part tho, if it's only beneficial then it's kind of pointless, it also needs to have some negative effects.
Again, its about layering complexity, adding role-play opportunities, and some strategic opportunities to group play, and certainly not about "dumbing the game down". Quite the opposite actually. (This isn't a happy rainbow place where you are safe and gain 100% life immediatley) If you chose an an appropriate camp spot and acted appropriately you gain an advantage otherwiise you might have been better off just trudging on. Think about it in real life? On a journey up a mountain wouldn't you need to camp once in a while?
That's fine and all, but why does it have to buff? And if you camped in real life, you would attract unwanted guests. We weren't aloud to use any lights when i was deployed in afghanistan because of that, couldn't even smoke at night. You can't have positive with no negative.
I agree...camp sites, if implemented, I would like to see a non-trivial chance of attracting area-specific humanoid/highly intelligent attention. This could be raised/lowered depending on proximity to aggressive settlements. Most indigenous wildlife would probably tend to avoid campfires...but who knows what the toss of the dice may bring?
Also, if different 'levels' of camp are in the game, the force attracted could be influenced by the size of the camp. a band of 4 NPCs would think nothing of attacking 1-2 people around a small campfire, but would probably pass on a full group with merchants/tents. Or, alternatively, they could stealth/invis in and waylay important targets...or send for reinforcements...
"We have been travelling all day and are approaching the dungeon. Do we charge in road-weary, or rest for a while and venture forth later? Better sleep lightly and set a watch, they may have patrols out!"
I love camp sites in games, but I think asking it to have functionality or DO anything is just not needed. At best it should be a mobile crafting station for cooks. I would use camps just to use them, to chat with people, even if there is no inherent benefit to it. Much like fireworks in SWG, I would use them all the time. I built thousands (dedicated factories) of fireworks in SWG for fun because I could. I would want the camps to be for social/crafting, and not really much else.
Adding special function to the camps means someone WILL find how to break them.
I can't think of all exploits, but the point is that there WILL be exploits. Just leave it as a social aesthetic, and have fun with it! Why should everything in the game have a function other than just for fun?
My point exactly Agga,
Too easy to find a way to exploit it if it has a beneficial buff system to them. And veiling it as an area buff still doesnt change the fact youre adding a buff where a character buff could/should be or stacking on one thats already there. No replacing characters with inatimate objects, might as well give everyone clicky heals and clarity and while youre at it GM death touch, and someone to loot the corpses and a mobile vendor to sell the drops and add to that a pocketable global auction house. Nah, just go find a single player game and chat in facebook. Lol
Why are people being so negative?
It's no more making the game easier than being able to buff others with a spell.
Say you have to tend the fire (be in range) to keep it going, then it's even more restrictive than a normal buff and not replacing interaction, but increasing it, because there will always be at least one person there. You could always make it so it doesn't give the buff if there are monsters in a certain range because you can't 'rest' properly.
If people do make campfires warming a route all the way through a frozen tundra, so what? Sounds excellent and more ingenious and interesting than just one person casting Resist Cold on everyone as they enter the zone.
Sure campfires could attract monsters. Depends on the locale. They could also frighten away monsters.
Inviting someone to share a campfire is an archetypal fantasy concept and, heck, a well-known thing in reality.
I would "assume", key word here, if they were to implement this type of mechanic that any time you get aggro or are in combat the buff would drop. Making it more of just a light source when in combat. And a med spot when out of combat. Implementing a tend mechanic would also cut down on some of the abuse. If it were implemented in this way i would be more likely to enjoy the idea over having waystations. Most groups tend to hover near a singular spot unless they are on the move anyway. Maybe even giving special fires that allows for an acclamation buff while out of combat. I see where the OP was going with this kind of thing.
This is why i was more in favor of a familiar system like we have already seen in the VoD's as you could have it as a permanent buff even while in combat. I just wanted to argue in favor of letting melee have access to a similar buff type thing. But i guess a campfire could be a good compromise.
Having a "safe" campfire is a bad idea but I didn't notice anyone suggesting that.
Having a campfire make things too safe and easy is a bad idea, but I didn't notice anyone suggesting that either.
Having a campfire visible so that it attracts other adventurers strikes me as good in a social game. If it also attracts ...other attention that is fine. But most animals will stay away unless they are *very* hungry. Hostile sentients are a very different matter but if someone builds a campfire near trolls and dragons without the ability to flee or fight same they rather deserve to have a corpse run.
I see no problem with minor and very temporary buffs provided by a campfire.
I also see no problems with debuffs. It is a very well known fact that if you are near a campfire unless you take very specific precautions you are very visible to enemies and the enemies coming from darkness are less visible to you. This would be even more true if infravison (heat sensing) was a factor.
>Why are people being so negative?
It's no more making the game easier than being able to buff others with a spell.
Say you have to tend the fire (be in range) to keep it going, then it's even more restrictive than a normal buff and not replacing interaction, but increasing it, because there will always be at least one person there. You could always make it so it doesn't give the buff if there are monsters in a certain range because you can't 'rest' properly.
If people do make campfires warming a route all the way through a frozen tundra, so what? Sounds excellent and more ingenious and interesting than just one person casting Resist Cold on everyone as they enter the zone.
Sure campfires could attract monsters. Depends on the locale. They could also frighten away monsters.
Inviting someone to share a campfire is an archetypal fantasy concept and, heck, a well-known thing in reality.<
I simply don't see a problem with this especially if it has the vision debuffs which in D&D terms might mean the people at the campfire have negatives "to hit" for a few rounds and the attackers if any have bonuses "to hit" for a few rounds. But if this is too complicated just leave the dratted campfire giving some pleasant warmth and light to the adventurers willing to risk the trolls and dragons.
i really like this idea! sounds very atmospheric and roleplayish. perhaps it could come with a small HP-bar (like wow totems) and npc could easy kill it? since it has a quite long cooldown you want to be carefully when / where to place it and guard it a bit so it doesnt get instant killed by the npcs....also i think it would be better if the duration is shorter than its cooldown, so you cant have one up all the time (f.e. 5min duration, 10min cd) so you want to put it down before difficult pulls or when your resources are full and you are going to pull faster for a bit before resting/meding again. sounds fun to me!
the whole arugment that "it dumps the game down" doesnt make sense to me. sure it's a buff. so is clarity / clerics ac & hp-buffs / etc. do those buffs also dump down the game? i dont think so.
also i agree with Tralyan. nearly everything can be exploited and surely people will find ways to exploit (npc pathing, macros, etc etc...). if it's fun and adds value to the game => go ahaid and do it! :)