Hello everyone!
I want to speak on Taverns and the Gameplay Value they have. In real Life everyone seems to like em.
In many Games they have some sort of minor Value and in many MMO´s its a Room nobody use. Except for Logging out.
So i thought this has to change. I came up with two "easy implementable" Features, maybe you like them.
1. Tavern only! Buffs, buy a drink and Food that only is sold there. It makes sense even because on tour you dont get a proper meal u stuff yourself with snacks.
You sit down eat drink and listen to the Music in the Tavern. That u cant have in the Wilds. Some Music tunes may speed up your Fighting Spirits!
2. Player driven Info-Messageboard, Somekind of Tips and Tricks Forum but ingame. (Darksouls marks like maybe?)
If a Zone has a Tavern, People can leave Posts for other with Articles about possible Loot/quests or even maps. The Infoboard should stay on VR predefined Topics so that not all Taverboards are the same, and more Localised.
I dont want a Internet ingame more like Postit Board but with notes that are relevant to your current Area. The post-its rot away(if the board is to full) if not a player gives a "like" to a post so usefull ones keep living so the board is not cluttered with random stuff.
So what do you say? Sorry btw English is not my Mothertongue
greetings
The idea is interesting, and later will be possible to move it to other towns etc..
One thing i am not sure i like with these so called "Guild Halls" as they turn out to be in the end is a bunch of AFKers spamming buffs on each other, and do not lose time on those buffs. This clearly is an issue.
Inns and or Taverns could have uses for quests etc.... Maybe even tradeskills. I have no idea if they have this now, but i doubt it would make it in by alpha launch. It would take some massive changes and additions so late in the game. Maybe another expansion this would do good, if it is like i said if it is in the game now.
Good idea though.
Not *everyone* likes taverns in real life. Many do, maybe even most, however.
Taverns are a logical place to get food and drinks - obviously. If there is a cook type crafting profession we don't want NPCs to compete too much with them.
Taverns are also a logical place to get quests and information - someone with high perception or high charisma or both having a better chance of this, perhaps.
Perhaps we can get experience from dancing on tables ....or laps. Oops wrong game never mind.
I can see the RP value in not wanting to enter a tavern. But, on a whole, I love the idea. You could have a quest sharing ability for those who would rather not sully themselves in a tavern. Although, with the perception system being different for every class.. you might be giving up something.
My opinion on taverns:
I'm in favor of generic "tavern-like" buildings in NPC cities for players to use for roleplaying purposes, with no special NPC support other than maybe an NPC vendor selling basic food/drink.
If the game has some sort of "task" system to generate short-term gameplay objectives (like a bounty board that offers micro-quests for a little extra cash and experience), I'm in favor of using NPC "taverns" as the location for this system.
I'm very much in favor of, and would prefer, player-owned and player-run taverns outside of the major NPC cities. This would be where a player sets up a building that is used as a tavern, complete (potentially) with an NPC selling crafted food/drink contributed by the owner. However, based on the discussions about outposts, this is probably an expansion-level feature.
Finally, I've talked about this before, but I'm in favor of provisioners making two sorts of food/drinks. Trail food, which is stuff you can take with you and use out in the world, that mainly gives you a minor stat increase while it's active; and Meals, which is stuff that you have to sit down and consume in a "tavern" area, but gives you a much greater stat increase for the period of time that it's active. This would encourage people to visit a place like a tavern when not out adventuring, though it would have to be set up in such a way that people didn't just walk in the door, pop their big buff, and walk out 20 seconds later.
There should probably be some major component or other LURE to these taverns to keep them alive. Like the only way to learn about upcoming dynamic content is at a tavern? Hear a rumor about some group planning to invade a zone you might want to head there but you have to check the local tavern every day for that kind of stuff. I like the message board idea - taverns could be the impromptu trade-halls. I know most people gathered around bankers and parcel vendors in EQ1. So if there is a parcel system i suggest putting it in or near the tavern. Taverns being the only place to get food would definitly increase the support system.
Edit: Please do not add a buff stasis zone. AFK buffing is just.... bad design. We need increased social interaction. Buffing for Donation is actually a very good business. And its a very social aspect.
Why try to make players hang out at a tavern? What benefit is there in that? Sounds more like players would feel somewhat forced into using these locations (or not at all if the buff isn't important) and as soon as they can bolt out of the place they will.
If you want people to hang out in taverns sometimes then add something optional and fun that can only be done in them and let players do that if they want to. Add card games or chess or arm wrestling or something of the like.
Just like forcing people to group is a method of getting socialization to occur in game, heavily incentivizing taverns is another method to accomplish the same goal. And I think we should keep in perspective that it's an incentive, no one is forced to go visit a tavern if they really don't want to.
Minigames are a great addition regardless though :)
Grouping is a fairly social activity, whereas hanging out in a bar isn't inherently social. I bet you would end up with 10% being social and the other 90% just acting like alcoholics - ending and starting every day in the bar, but not actually talking to anyone.
If there was a solid card game in the bar then I would absolutely spend some time there and maybe meet people, but if it were buffs then I would just show up for the rewards and then leave.
Iksar said:Why try to make players hang out at a tavern? What benefit is there in that? Sounds more like players would feel somewhat forced into using these locations (or not at all if the buff isn't important) and as soon as they can bolt out of the place they will.
If you want people to hang out in taverns sometimes then add something optional and fun that can only be done in them and let players do that if they want to. Add card games or chess or arm wrestling or something of the like.
I agree with Iksar here. If you want people to visit the tavern and spend more than 1 minute then bolting, there needs to be something of a time sink. Even if it amounts to no advantage.
Cards games, competitions, and such are great ways for people to gather somewhere for some friendly competition on a slow night or even before or after their nights adventures.
Whatever the reason, it should not be to gain any sort of adventuring advantage.
I get what the OP was getting at. We see inns and taverns in every game and all of them are completely useless. The OP was looking for ways to make these empty, useless buildings, useful. but....
I also get what iKsar said: ....Why would I ever want to hang in a Tavern.
I can't say that I wanna spend time in a tavern either. I would rather find quests and clues in many places, not just one.
But. I also like iksars idea here as well. go into a taven, play "mini games" like chess, cards, etc.. gives taverns a reason to be there, doesn't make me feel a need to go there.
Many games with accessible buildings had them generally unused and moderately unpopulated with NPC's. I can see what the OP is getting at with added functionality. Instead of selling vendor food, perhaps the NPC barkeep sells perishable AH goods instead (just crafted food and water). The price is not based around AH values but instead off of set NPC vendor values + a percentage. The more crafters create food and the more the NPC gets a surplus the lower the price drops toward vendor prices until the crafters do not see a value in placing foodstuffs up for sale. Let it cycle. Sure, throw in an extra minor buff from food purchased there such as 5% walk speed increase. I wouldn't go so far as to make them valued as raid buffs though.
As far as the RP value, I could see that for those that care one whit about that stuff (not me). The real use for Barkeeps (Tavern staff) could come from local rumors and grumblings to catch the flavor of local happiness or disputes and maybe offer some form of reputation side tasks. The Tavern staff could also mention unusual weather if you tell them where you are traveling or an anticipated shortage of food/water as a hint to crafters to make more.
I agree that it'd be nice to find adventures at the tavern. It's an old trope of the fantasy genre and one that I've always found charming. But I also agree with the notion that forcing players into a timesink at a tavern would only have people staying there for the minimum required time and then bolting. I think this is a problem that class interdependence could fix.
What if certain classes had abilities that interacted with specific areas in cities and towns to benefit players? Bards playing songs at the tavern giving players who are there hanging out a nice exp gain buff. Watching a cleric or paladin pray at a temple, a druid or shaman bless a farm, or a warrior or direlord duel in an arena could all have similar effects. If you combine this with special items to buy and mini games to play that are only at these locations they should naturally draw players so long as they aren't far out of the way.
I so so so hope that VR think hard about the 'hub' of the community in cities/towns.
We all know that it will be wherever trading/crafting/banking happens.
In EQ Project 1999 if you don't trade in the East Commons zone, you may as well not bother and getting to the bank when loaded with coins involves a run through 2 city zones. If you're evil it's even worse. Painful.
If they make the trading/crafting/banking hub a sensible area (as the people who live there absolutely would do - even for 'black market' evil trading/crafting/banking) then sticking a tavern in the middle that has entertainment (or just gives you a small 'buff' for hanging out) will mean it will be the place for folks to meet when they are trading/crafting/banking/whatever.
I would like to see taverns as the place to check notice boards (NPC and/or player generated notices) and talk to NPCs for current local gossip and rumors (effectively potential quests and lucrative hunting opportunities).
I guess it would be nice if buying the landlord a drink or having a 'sit down' meal gave better results than just vendor-purchase-and-run so as to encourage an actual feel of 'spending time' in the tavern and being an inhabitant of the world makes a difference and has consequences, but it will mean more to some than others.
Gurt said:I agree that it'd be nice to find adventures at the tavern. It's an old trope of the fantasy genre and one that I've always found charming. But I also agree with the notion that forcing players into a timesink at a tavern would only have people staying there for the minimum required time and then bolting. I think this is a problem that class interdependence could fix.
What if certain classes had abilities that interacted with specific areas in cities and towns to benefit players? Bards playing songs at the tavern giving players who are there hanging out a nice exp gain buff. Watching a cleric or paladin pray at a temple, a druid or shaman bless a farm, or a warrior or direlord duel in an arena could all have similar effects. If you combine this with special items to buy and mini games to play that are only at these locations they should naturally draw players so long as they aren't far out of the way.
I like the idea of different locations having different buffs, so if you want the full compliment of adventuring buffs, you need to spend a little time in each. Attack buff from the Arena, defense buff from the Church, damage shield from the Grove, stamina from the Tavern. Would probably have to have them 'pause' until you leave town, so they don't expire while collecting the others and would need careful balancing to make them 'worthwhile' but not essential, but, yeah, nice idea.
I don't see the need to artificially inflate a server population with people that go AFK so they can get the mass buffs. I would be "ok" with a tribute or quest system to get some lower level buffs, but nothing too crazy. The mini-games idea for taverns is a good one. I just liked the old school way that inns and taverns had a place in literature. People ate there, people drank there, listened for gossip there. They didnt have the market there, but it was usually close by. In my mind i would go spend a little bit of time to stock up on some food, grab a pint, maybe ask for a buff and check the local gossip before heading out to go see my fate. I don't plan to spend hours upon hours at a tavern unless i am just planning to do that anyway. So minigames would be a good side distraction. Maybe something similar to twitch chat minigames where you play a text based adventure and you get small rewards like 1%-5% winnings or something like that.
kreed99 said:...I don't plan to spend hours upon hours at a tavern unless i am just planning to do that anyway...
This gives me an idea completely counter to what you just said. What if the longer you spent in a tavern (presumably socializing with other players) the greater the buff was? It would need to be to something that wouldn't be sought after by raiders if this was the case or you'd see entire raids of people just camping the tavern for 4+ hours, but giving a scaling expirence gain buff could be pretty nice, espically if there were systems for identifing other players as LFG or groups as LFM while you were there.
Gurt said:kreed99 said:...I don't plan to spend hours upon hours at a tavern unless i am just planning to do that anyway...
This gives me an idea completely counter to what you just said. What if the longer you spent in a tavern (presumably socializing with other players) the greater the buff was? It would need to be to something that wouldn't be sought after by raiders if this was the case or you'd see entire raids of people just camping the tavern for 4+ hours, but giving a scaling expirence gain buff could be pretty nice, espically if there were systems for identifing other players as LFG or groups as LFM while you were there.
I actually think the opposite should happen. If you are AFK for 4 hours in a bar you should have a detrimental effect. Anything that encourages AFK buffing should be reconsidered. I would prefer the task of running to a couple places drop a few plat for some buffs and camp till im ready to play. Anything else would be a dedicated area where you can AFK "camp" like the barracks of the garrison, unless you are arguing to make the Bar the AFK "camp" spot, then i guess we are on the same page with that. I would prefer to keep the bar more lively, but thats my opinion on it. And any buff that is system generated would be slight. We still don't want to facilitate soloing anymore than already available. So maybe just allow slight movement buffs to facilitate travel or CR's
I'm indifferent about the tavern buff topic - but someone mentioned chess, or cards. That could be a potentially really cool mechanic to add, playable only in taverns.
If I'm in Freeport with my LFG tag on, and not really wanting to get into anything on the off-chance I get a /tell, it would be awesome to saunter into the tavern and play a game of chess with another player as a mini-game. Perhaps we could have built in "stakes", where we'd each put down 10plat for the win. Or a game of poker with Panthon lore specific cards.
It's that kind of stuff that doesn't FORCE (compel) anyone into anything, but gives an extra reason to visit certain places. It could also give rise to some really interesting community building and potential emergent gameplay.
Take a book out of a couple other MMO's - Like LOTRO - and have player made music via instruments, but make them only playable inside taverns. Player created bands in each corner of the room while I'm sitting at a table playing chess with Legolassss while waiting for that /Tell from someone wanting a tank? Hell to the yes.
Do it.
It can be a whole new gaming experiance in and of itself. What if the minigame becomes more popular than the actual game? There are some pretty dang popular card games out there. I don't know if we need to get too extreme with the gambling part - low level stakes shouldnt cause too big of an issue like max 100 units of money. As long as we avoid any Pay2Win features like ingame loot for so many wins and it should be fine. If someone sharks me for 100 units i wont complain, lesson learned.
kreed99 said:Gurt said:kreed99 said:...I don't plan to spend hours upon hours at a tavern unless i am just planning to do that anyway...
This gives me an idea completely counter to what you just said. What if the longer you spent in a tavern (presumably socializing with other players) the greater the buff was? It would need to be to something that wouldn't be sought after by raiders if this was the case or you'd see entire raids of people just camping the tavern for 4+ hours, but giving a scaling expirence gain buff could be pretty nice, espically if there were systems for identifing other players as LFG or groups as LFM while you were there.
I actually think the opposite should happen. If you are AFK for 4 hours in a bar you should have a detrimental effect. Anything that encourages AFK buffing should be reconsidered. I would prefer the task of running to a couple places drop a few plat for some buffs and camp till im ready to play. Anything else would be a dedicated area where you can AFK "camp" like the barracks of the garrison, unless you are arguing to make the Bar the AFK "camp" spot, then i guess we are on the same page with that. I would prefer to keep the bar more lively, but thats my opinion on it. And any buff that is system generated would be slight. We still don't want to facilitate soloing anymore than already available. So maybe just allow slight movement buffs to facilitate travel or CR's
If you're AFK for 4 hours in a bar you should probably come back to find out that your character is so drunk that you pass out when you walk out of the bar. Or even perhaps do what LOTRO did, when you pass out drunk, you wake up somewhere random in the world, with a debuff called "wait... where are my pants?" :)
I don't think anyone is suggesting AFK buffs at all, and I would agree that we should NOT go there.
If you're AFK for 4 hours in a bar you should probably come back to find out that your character is so drunk that you pass out when you walk out of the bar. Or even perhaps do what LOTRO did, when you pass out drunk, you wake up somewhere random in the world, with a debuff called "wait... where are my pants?" :)
I don't think anyone is suggesting AFK buffs at all, and I would agree that we should NOT go there.
Exactly!
I'd like the Inns getting stages on which bards could perform, other players could listen to them and get temporary buffs (Speed, not fan of xp gain buffs though ...). The duration of buffs could depend on how long the player listens to the bard, the power of the buff could depend on the bard's skills.
Could also be nice to add a /tip command, similar to the one that existed in SWG : targetting a player, enter /tip 500 was giving him 500 credits.
Similar gameplay could be added to temples in which clerics could lead prayers that would give different buffs (hp buff, armor ?, some resists ?). Couls also be the same for druids in glades for resist buffs, speed, etc ...