I know VR is against any sort of ranking system, but not sure if the idea of a companion website has been brought up yet. EQ2 did this and created another layer of intrigue for me. For EQ2 the website would keep track of your characters kills, deaths, quests completed, highest single damage spell, highest single physical attack, etc. It also had a server/global ranking for split into all characters, and for your specific class. EQ2 also had a "discovery" feature for people that liked being the first at everything which was another feather to put in your cap. Could be something fun for Pantheon as well.
I was just thinking about this the other day.
I agree an out of game site that could still link you some way would be great. I recall EQ had an inventory aite that you could see your character and gear and stats, I think even what was in ypur bags. I know that was a third party site, I I found it very interesting.
I do not remember the EQ2 site that keep up with random stats like that, but I love it. I know its so trivial but i love knpwing I have killed 1000 goblins, or died 42 times ( this month ).
They could take something like this and go as far as they wanted. I know a lot of might and magic games give you more lore about centaurs after you kill 100. And unlocks aa you kill more of the same.
Anything like that I would love to habe the ability to check out anytime anywhere. I wouldn't mind if they used this as another revenue stream, I would pay a small fee for this extra tool.
I did like the EQ2 website. I was not a great player, and would never top a DPS chart or highest hit (I was a templar, which had the lowest dps of all 24 classes).
But...it tracked the money you had in game. When I quit I was 37th richest person on the server. And there were not a lot of legit players ahead of me. Lots of bots.
It's silly, but that was the one thing I was kind of "grinding" outside of quests, raids etc. I would try to maintain my rank in the riches department. I had found a market for something rare, and would make a lot of money on it since I had almost complete monopoly. Lots of farming in the same spot, but nobody else would...it was kinda cool in a way...a game within a game...
randomrob82 said:I know VR is against any sort of ranking system, but not sure if the idea of a companion website has been brought up yet. EQ2 did this and created another layer of intrigue for me. For EQ2 the website would keep track of your characters kills, deaths, quests completed, highest single damage spell, highest single physical attack, etc. It also had a server/global ranking for split into all characters, and for your specific class. EQ2 also had a "discovery" feature for people that liked being the first at everything which was another feather to put in your cap. Could be something fun for Pantheon as well.
Like leaderboards that would be cool I guess. :)
Ludek said:I hear ya, I remember being #2 for quests completed on my server (after playing for a couple years my quest counter was insanely high). It created a rivalry between myself and #1 as we were always very close. It's a clever way of adding an additional level of pride in your toon, but also completely optional for the player to partake in and wouldn't in any way create a disadvantage for people who didn't opt into the service.I did like the EQ2 website. I was not a great player, and would never top a DPS chart or highest hit (I was a templar, which had the lowest dps of all 24 classes).
But...it tracked the money you had in game. When I quit I was 37th richest person on the server. And there were not a lot of legit players ahead of me. Lots of bots.
It's silly, but that was the one thing I was kind of "grinding" outside of quests, raids etc. I would try to maintain my rank in the riches department. I had found a market for something rare, and would make a lot of money on it since I had almost complete monopoly. Lots of farming in the same spot, but nobody else would...it was kinda cool in a way...a game within a game...
Nice thing to have but not near the top of the priority list unless they can actually get some revenue from it.
Other threads have discussed having different levels of subscription providing different benefits. There was a lot of negative comment towards having multiple tiers of players (let's not divert this thread to that topic) but giving differing benefits out-of-game is a hos of a very different color and might work nicely.
Kudos to anyone getting the hos instead of horse substitution, it comes from an old but not otherwise obscure book.
I've listened to some very smart people speak about game subscriptions from a very informed position. The big takeaway is you really need some way to let "whales" spend a lot of money on the game if they want to. The trick is you can't let them buy easy progression; that's not only Pay-to-Win (which is almost the worst thing you can do), but it also makes your gameplay something to be avoided, which is even worse.
Some whales will spend a lot of money running a bunch of different accounts, and that's okay, but it's not entirely without problems. I did this in another game and I think it worked against the social aspect because it decreased reliance on others. For what it's worth, I'm planning to avoid most crafting in Pantheon - not because I don't like crafting, but because I'm not head-over-heels in love with it and because I think I'll develop better relationships with other players if I push myself to rely on them for my crafting needs. (Related wisdom: don't make crafting a "hole" on the character sheet that everyone feels compelled to fill.)
When EverQuest first came out, I couldn't afford it and that really sucked. But I'm in a completely different situation now and would be quite happy to keep paying $100/month (or more) to play. I hope VR figures out a way to let me do that in a way that's good for the game and the community.
Nihimon said:I hear ya. I wouldn't mind spending more than the subscription but completely understand the need to avoid game-breaking cash shops.I've listened to some very smart people speak about game subscriptions from a very informed position. The big takeaway is you really need some way to let "whales" spend a lot of money on the game if they want to. The trick is you can't let them buy easy progression; that's not only Pay-to-Win (which is almost the worst thing you can do), but it also makes your gameplay something to be avoided, which is even worse.
Some whales will spend a lot of money running a bunch of different accounts, and that's okay, but it's not entirely without problems. I did this in another game and I think it worked against the social aspect because it decreased reliance on others. For what it's worth, I'm planning to avoid most crafting in Pantheon - not because I don't like crafting, but because I'm not head-over-heels in love with it and because I think I'll develop better relationships with other players if I push myself to rely on them for my crafting needs. (Related wisdom: don't make crafting a "hole" on the character sheet that everyone feels compelled to fill.)
When EverQuest first came out, I couldn't afford it and that really sucked. But I'm in a completely different situation now and would be quite happy to keep paying $100/month (or more) to play. I hope VR figures out a way to let me do that in a way that's good for the game and the community.
Nihimon said:I've listened to some very smart people speak about game subscriptions from a very informed position. The big takeaway is you really need some way to let "whales" spend a lot of money on the game if they want to. The trick is you can't let them buy easy progression; that's not only Pay-to-Win (which is almost the worst thing you can do), but it also makes your gameplay something to be avoided, which is even worse.
Some whales will spend a lot of money running a bunch of different accounts, and that's okay, but it's not entirely without problems. I did this in another game and I think it worked against the social aspect because it decreased reliance on others. For what it's worth, I'm planning to avoid most crafting in Pantheon - not because I don't like crafting, but because I'm not head-over-heels in love with it and because I think I'll develop better relationships with other players if I push myself to rely on them for my crafting needs. (Related wisdom: don't make crafting a "hole" on the character sheet that everyone feels compelled to fill.)
When EverQuest first came out, I couldn't afford it and that really sucked. But I'm in a completely different situation now and would be quite happy to keep paying $100/month (or more) to play. I hope VR figures out a way to let me do that in a way that's good for the game and the community.
While I get your point, even if I'm not broke as I was when EQ came out and I was a youngling, I couldn't spend 100$/ month in a game, and if a player get any advantage in the game because he can (even cosmetics), I would turn away from the game because it's breaking the wall between what we can do in real life, and what we can do in the game which should be two totally different things.
I'd gladly pay more than 15$, like 20 or 30. But not 100, and I don't think back in 1999, the 15$ sub was worth as much as 100$ now (But I can be wrong).
Aye, something kinda like this: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2730/does-anyone-remember-the-vanguard-players-website
MauvaisOeil said:Nihimon said:I've listened to some very smart people speak about game subscriptions from a very informed position. The big takeaway is you really need some way to let "whales" spend a lot of money on the game if they want to. The trick is you can't let them buy easy progression; that's not only Pay-to-Win (which is almost the worst thing you can do), but it also makes your gameplay something to be avoided, which is even worse.
Some whales will spend a lot of money running a bunch of different accounts, and that's okay, but it's not entirely without problems. I did this in another game and I think it worked against the social aspect because it decreased reliance on others. For what it's worth, I'm planning to avoid most crafting in Pantheon - not because I don't like crafting, but because I'm not head-over-heels in love with it and because I think I'll develop better relationships with other players if I push myself to rely on them for my crafting needs. (Related wisdom: don't make crafting a "hole" on the character sheet that everyone feels compelled to fill.)
When EverQuest first came out, I couldn't afford it and that really sucked. But I'm in a completely different situation now and would be quite happy to keep paying $100/month (or more) to play. I hope VR figures out a way to let me do that in a way that's good for the game and the community.
While I get your point, even if I'm not broke as I was when EQ came out and I was a youngling, I couldn't spend 100$/ month in a game, and if a player get any advantage in the game because he can (even cosmetics), I would turn away from the game because it's breaking the wall between what we can do in real life, and what we can do in the game which should be two totally different things.
I'd gladly pay more than 15$, like 20 or 30. But not 100, and I don't think back in 1999, the 15$ sub was worth as much as 100$ now (But I can be wrong).
Kiddies are easily dropping hundreds of $$/mon in Korean P2W grind-fests like AA, BDO and soon to come Bless. :(
MauvaisOeil said:Nihimon said:... I... would be quite happy to keep paying $100/month (or more) to play. I hope VR figures out a way to let me do that in a way that's good for the game and the community.
... I couldn't spend 100$/ month in a game, and if a player get any advantage in the game because he can (even cosmetics), I would turn away from the game...
I totally agree with you. My hope is that VR figures out a way to let me give them my money - even if it's just by creating a Patreon account or something - that doesn't have **any** negative impact on the game or other players.
Nihimon said:I've listened to some very smart people speak about game subscriptions from a very informed position. The big takeaway is you really need some way to let "whales" spend a lot of money on the game if they want to. The trick is you can't let them buy easy progression; that's not only Pay-to-Win (which is almost the worst thing you can do), but it also makes your gameplay something to be avoided, which is even worse.
Some whales will spend a lot of money running a bunch of different accounts, and that's okay, but it's not entirely without problems. I did this in another game and I think it worked against the social aspect because it decreased reliance on others. For what it's worth, I'm planning to avoid most crafting in Pantheon - not because I don't like crafting, but because I'm not head-over-heels in love with it and because I think I'll develop better relationships with other players if I push myself to rely on them for my crafting needs. (Related wisdom: don't make crafting a "hole" on the character sheet that everyone feels compelled to fill.)
When EverQuest first came out, I couldn't afford it and that really sucked. But I'm in a completely different situation now and would be quite happy to keep paying $100/month (or more) to play. I hope VR figures out a way to let me do that in a way that's good for the game and the community.
Lol so the "big spenders" are referred to as whales? Never heard that term before. Hopefully they won't expect pay to win.
Multiple paid accounts may happen...there are those that like to multi-box, but I would like to see that tamed down some, so that they aren't monopolizing whole areas....specifically the newbie areas. Watched these guys on the Agnarr progression server and there was literally a bottleneck where they had massacred all the mobs in sight, and left the corpses to rot.
Newbies aren't going to stick around long if they can't complete their early tasks.. Or make a server specifically for multi boxers and let them compete with each other. :)
Cana
CanadinaXegony said:Nihimon said:I've listened to some very smart people speak about game subscriptions from a very informed position. The big takeaway is you really need some way to let "whales" spend a lot of money on the game if they want to. The trick is you can't let them buy easy progression; that's not only Pay-to-Win (which is almost the worst thing you can do), but it also makes your gameplay something to be avoided, which is even worse.
Some whales will spend a lot of money running a bunch of different accounts, and that's okay, but it's not entirely without problems. I did this in another game and I think it worked against the social aspect because it decreased reliance on others. For what it's worth, I'm planning to avoid most crafting in Pantheon - not because I don't like crafting, but because I'm not head-over-heels in love with it and because I think I'll develop better relationships with other players if I push myself to rely on them for my crafting needs. (Related wisdom: don't make crafting a "hole" on the character sheet that everyone feels compelled to fill.)
When EverQuest first came out, I couldn't afford it and that really sucked. But I'm in a completely different situation now and would be quite happy to keep paying $100/month (or more) to play. I hope VR figures out a way to let me do that in a way that's good for the game and the community.
Lol so the "big spenders" are referred to as whales? Never heard that term before. Hopefully they won't expect pay to win.
Multiple paid accounts may happen...there are those that like to multi-box, but I would like to see that tamed down some, so that they aren't monopolizing whole areas....specifically the newbie areas. Watched these guys on the Agnarr progression server and there was literally a bottleneck where they had massacred all the mobs in sight, and left the corpses to rot.
Newbies aren't going to stick around long if they can't complete their early tasks.. Or make a server specifically for multi boxers and let them compete with each other. :)
Cana
Yes. And not only are they referred to that way, there's a whole dynamic to take care of that. I read an article about how companies dealt with whales (the link might even have been here, I don't remember) where basically, if you're a whale, the company knows. They track you, and they can go as far as having really cute girls try to friend you on Facebook in an effort to get you to spend more money on their in-game products. They study you, and your tendencies and what you like and do everything in their power to reel you in to spend more money. It's totally a thing, and very similar to what casinos do with big spenders.
xilith said:On the plus side, since it's a Unity based game it will be pretty trivial for a 3rd party to set up a companion app that pulls this info and publishes it to a website. I expect we'll see this even if there's no official support for it.
Not sure what you mean. Unpacking the client UNITY graphics will not get you the serverside logic. No details about gear, about NPCs, about quests and so on. It will probably allow a non-populated copy of the world to be created for exploring.
Now maybe if you sniff packets and they are not encrypted, which is how most of the sites that trafficed in getting game data worked. And hacking as well unfortunately.
The majority of games, and especially MMOs, replicate a significant amount of the server side DB onto the client in order to reduce network traffic to look up stats and descriptions, etc, and then refer to these by ids sent in network traffic. Since Unity is C# based its significantly easier to hook in in order to get access to some of this, but even outside of Unity there's a variety of tools. If you think that most game database sites are manually entered, that's not how we do it. Encryption is a thing for sure, but that just means you need the key, and there are ways to get that as well.
Whether these techniques and tools, when used for good and not for cheating, are tolerated will remain to be seen, but I have no doubts to the technical feasibility.
I was thinking about this today and thought it might be interesting to expand upon this idea and include a companion app for mobile, similar to what Destiny 2 has. Not a 3rd party app, but something put out by VR themselves.
With all the QOL discussion going on lately, this is something that could potentially alleviate some of the concerns around time and time management in game.
Such an app could allow you to do certain activities within the game, without actually logging in.
Ideas on what the app could do:
Some of this is encroaching on travel and stuff, and may not make sense in the grand scheme of things. But little tedious things that take time that a player can do from their phone during a lunch break or something.
Anyway, just a thought. :)
EDIT: I tried to add bullets, but not sure why the formatting didn't carry over to the actual post?
