Sorry, I can't think of another word for this but hate, even tho that the hate is not intentional in what I'm about to discuss except in part 2. So let's start with part 1.
1) So many times someone creates a topic they would like to discuss, granted there may already be older topics for people to read on, but why? So much has changed over the last year, maybe those 6-12 month + topics need some more discussion. I can understand the devs don't want a flood of repeat topics, to which, makes sense. However, this will lead me into part 2 where the real use of the word hate comes from -
2) People always get hated on for necroing dead threads. Sure there may be an old topic already, but maybe I want to add some elements to it that I think would be a cool system or something. So do I necro the thread? Nope, really can't unless you want people to complain, although I'm not sure that has happened here, I keep an eye on it and talk in topics that I think are crucial, and don't really pay attention to the ones that I know VR already has a handle on, and I like their style. So then, do I just open a new post and post my thoughts about it? Nope, it gets locked and i get told where the 20 topics that are dead already are.
So my question is simple for this forum, where does the hate end? Should I necro a post with my thoughts and personal opinions? Or should I open a new thread so it's brand spanking new and people aren't getting lost in 20 pages of chat, mostly for the newcomers to the forum.
Like I said, hate doesn't work in both instances lol, but it was the only word i could think of at the time, so don't hate me for using hate.
Anyways, thoughts? Comments? Concerns? Complaints? Please feel free to discuss so I know my actions in the future.
A relevant question! I think you should necro a post if it's about the same thing you're discussing. It's easy for us to go to the last page and your most recent post. No problem. Plus, it's cool to see the arguments in one thread, even if they're old. Most of the time they're still relevant. That way you can contribute your thoughts in the time-honored tradition of the myriad great minds who contemplated and pressed the enter key before you. Plus, it'll show VR how interested we all are in practicing necromancy.
Hi Dubah,
I'll point you to such threads as..
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/8526/so-where-does-the-quot-hate-quot-end
and
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/8526/so-where-does-the-quot-hate-quot-end
;)
Don't worry about it. Just look on the bright side
Sorry for poking fun before, i know your raising a good point mate. I figure if you feel like you have somthing important to say and or ask and there may be a discussion ripe for it, have a gander to see if there is anything relevant to necro and if you honestly cant see anything make a post and have at it! I know you dont mean hate and it definitely wouldnt be hate coming from anyone, but I think its mainly got to do with people trying to be helpful participants here and "policing" info and threads, trying to be an assistant to Kilsin as he is a busy man.
Your right that so much changes over that period of time and we may well be discussing features that are already removed or set in stone and a VR rep will usually step in at some stage and put it straight if it is way off the mark, they are good at that as they see these forums as an important tool for their R&D but also for outsiders who havent pledged to see the community and how the features are evolving and they dont want badly informed posts circulating on these forums and seeming legit when it isnt.
I haven't seen any hate on thread necro-ing here, but more on the opposite fact : Starting new / numerous threads for various basic questions that have already been asked in the past few years.
I guess it's a matter of perspective over the years, but I can understand why 4 years backers actively posting here don't want their previous opinion beeing discarded by a fresh new post where only fresh new opinions or members would debate on something that has already been brought to light earlier.
Of course things changed, and things will change overtime. Does it make any post outdated ? I think not, seeing the evolution of opinions and features over time can be a rich experience, and sometimes others had the same ideas or vision you had, and you can relate to their experience.
I also think it's a matter of "impatience", and fresh created posts by the same member over a few days shows a genuine interest in the game withouth much effort or work to understand the game concept firsthand, or any search at all second hand. Showing interest, curiosity and consideration in older posts treating the same exact subjects is a proof of respect from other's opinion, while creating a brand new post out of impatience, tend to show a bit of selfishness and lazyness.
Dubah said:Sorry, I can't think of another word for this but hate, even tho that the hate is not intentional in what I'm about to discuss except in part 2. So let's start with part 1.
1) So many times someone creates a topic they would like to discuss, granted there may already be older topics for people to read on, but why? So much has changed over the last year, maybe those 6-12 month + topics need some more discussion. I can understand the devs don't want a flood of repeat topics, to which, makes sense. However, this will lead me into part 2 where the real use of the word hate comes from -
2) People always get hated on for necroing dead threads. Sure there may be an old topic already, but maybe I want to add some elements to it that I think would be a cool system or something. So do I necro the thread? Nope, really can't unless you want people to complain, although I'm not sure that has happened here, I keep an eye on it and talk in topics that I think are crucial, and don't really pay attention to the ones that I know VR already has a handle on, and I like their style. So then, do I just open a new post and post my thoughts about it? Nope, it gets locked and i get told where the 20 topics that are dead already are.
So my question is simple for this forum, where does the hate end? Should I necro a post with my thoughts and personal opinions? Or should I open a new thread so it's brand spanking new and people aren't getting lost in 20 pages of chat, mostly for the newcomers to the forum.
Like I said, hate doesn't work in both instances lol, but it was the only word i could think of at the time, so don't hate me for using hate.
Anyways, thoughts? Comments? Concerns? Complaints? Please feel free to discuss so I know my actions in the future.
Careful now, or you'll get a warning. And you'll get a warning for bumping an old thread that you were told to bump. /shrug
Lol, love the responses here, thanks for the info. I wasn't really asking for myself, it was just a thought i had about it. Pretty common lately to see a new post and someone link 20 posts with the same questions asked, so I figured I'd ask in case anything came up that I felt a need to discuss. Shoutout to Retsof and Hokanu for best smart butt comments, lol.
MauvaisOeil said:
I also think it's a matter of "impatience", and fresh created posts by the same member over a few days shows a genuine interest in the game withouth much effort or work to understand the game concept firsthand, or any search at all second hand. Showing interest, curiosity and consideration in older posts treating the same exact subjects is a proof of respect from other's opinion, while creating a brand new post out of impatience, tend to show a bit of selfishness and lazyness.
This is a little off topic, but this is something I hope VR actually addresses when the game launches.
Time and time, game after game we all see the same thing. New people come into the game with out taking 5 minutes to do a little reading on basic commands/info of the game and flood the newbie zones chat with questions that are very simply answered on the forums. Then you have a wave of players that respond to with a simple GOOGLE IT. Which of course then causes issues and bickering between helpful players and frustrated players and pissing off of the new folks. And with Pantheon touting to be a comminutity matters based game this is not the right way for folks to start off thier time in Pantheon.
So what I would like to see is a well informed thread that goes over the basic commands and info of the game. In-beded in the thread should be a high lighted letter in each paragraph that the reader needs to notate. Then when every players logs into the game for the 1st time there is a chappa lock that needs to be unlocked with the high lighted letters from the thread.
Will this eliminate all of the inane lazy mode questions? No, but at least it will eliminate a number of them.
This is a forum...
To be fair to those posting new stuff, the search function is pretty awful in this forum, but there will be a new one Soon (TM).
And to be fair to the link/close process, this is a special forum, since it's a 'development' forum, not really one for players to simply discuss 'for fun'.
Also, unless the devs are lying, they like to get feedback, even on decided issues. Even if they are totally concrete on something (and, it's Pre-Alpha, so nothing is really totally concrete) discussion can lead to new thoughts for additions even if existing stuff might not change much, related stuff might, etc etc.
The official guidelines state that you should necro an old thread instead of starting a new one the same topic, so that's what will draw the least "hate" from Kilsin haha. Ultimately that's probably what you should be most concerned about haha. Tbh I don't remember seeing anyone really get flamed for necroing an old thread. With the search function being as bad as it is, it's much easier to just have all the discussion in one easy-to-find thread, rather than spreading it out across a bunch of threads with different titles. Definitely best to go ahead and start leveling up your Necromancy skill ;P
I think someone needs to set a calendar remind to rescucitate this thread in about eighteen months :)
The reason I (and just speaking for me) get aggravated by zombie thread is that I view them as conversations. I know there is a big delay, unlike person-to-person discussions, but someone says/asks something, then someone else responds, etc. it's a conversations.
When I see a topic and I want to join in I start discussing something then realize "hey wait a minute. The original poster has been gone four years and no one has been part of this conversation for twenty months"
It feels (to me) like having a conversation and you look up and you're in an empty room.
I'm super active on another (non gaming) forum and this happens a lot and it's always a new member with a post count of like three, whjo zombies a thread that's been dead for years and years and is so irrelevant at this point that it is just noise. Dredging up that old stuff (that is obsolete and inaccurate info) is really counter-productive. I would rather regurgitate the same relevant topic and be redundant rather than wade through old informaiton.
I hate zombie threads
Dubah said: ... So my question is simple for this forum, where does the hate end? ...
It never ends. Once financially or emotionally invested, some members of any community (that they're invested in) will defend it without question. It's the white-knight syndrome. And it applies to many topics that are pure opinion debates, outside the realm of MMOs.
Some can't be or won't be objective, or critical, or reasonable or logical. From member to member, it's simply a matter of degree, and often associated with the amount or time invested, respectively.
I've seen it with every MMO that has any form of pre-beta access, so far. And it will continue post-launch, too, via whatever communication methods are made available, if history is any indication.
Moderation can fix it, but it requires disciplining members of the community that have paid money to speak their opinion, so censoring, editing, or muting them (even temporarily) is not well received.
vjek said:Dubah said: ... So my question is simple for this forum, where does the hate end? ...It never ends. Once financially or emotionally invested, some members of any community (that they're invested in) will defend it without question. It's the white-knight syndrome. And it applies to many topics that are pure opinion debates, outside the realm of MMOs.
Some can't be or won't be objective, or critical, or reasonable or logical. From member to member, it's simply a matter of degree, and often associated with the amount or time invested, respectively.
I've seen it with every MMO that has any form of pre-beta access, so far. And it will continue post-launch, too, via whatever communication methods are made available, if history is any indication.Moderation can fix it, but it requires disciplining members of the community that have paid money to speak their opinion, so censoring, editing, or muting them (even temporarily) is not well received.
To be fair that's not the kind of hate I am talking about lol. I actually very rarely see flame posts, although they do occur, some people just can't handle the fact that other people have opinions. However, my question, as stated above isn't just about hate, it's more about how to handle the above situations to avoid any hate or needing a moderator to step in and lock a thread.
Dubah said:Well it is kinda hard to counter a hate post first if you start a thread and someone gets nuts.vjek said:Dubah said: ... So my question is simple for this forum, where does the hate end? ...It never ends. Once financially or emotionally invested, some members of any community (that they're invested in) will defend it without question. It's the white-knight syndrome. And it applies to many topics that are pure opinion debates, outside the realm of MMOs.
Some can't be or won't be objective, or critical, or reasonable or logical. From member to member, it's simply a matter of degree, and often associated with the amount or time invested, respectively.
I've seen it with every MMO that has any form of pre-beta access, so far. And it will continue post-launch, too, via whatever communication methods are made available, if history is any indication.Moderation can fix it, but it requires disciplining members of the community that have paid money to speak their opinion, so censoring, editing, or muting them (even temporarily) is not well received.
To be fair that's not the kind of hate I am talking about lol. I actually very rarely see flame posts, although they do occur, some people just can't handle the fact that other people have opinions. However, my question, as stated above isn't just about hate, it's more about how to handle the above situations to avoid any hate or needing a moderator to step in and lock a thread.
I think you who started the thread have some responsibility so first try to understand why that person whent nuts could he/she have missed the meaning to it so you could try to reformulate your post..like beeing abit more diplomatic you could even try to say you understand him (to some extent)
what you shouldent do is start going nuts yourself that would be pouring gasoline on a hot flame.
third person could go betwin and try to reason and lay there take on the table it might work depending how hot the situation is.
But i think it is hard to judge what is right or not depending on the situation people are different so to stop the hate all toghether is impossible you could disarm it in some deegre but ultimate you cant stop all of it.
Dubah said:vjek said:Dubah said: ... So my question is simple for this forum, where does the hate end? ...It never ends. Once financially or emotionally invested, some members of any community (that they're invested in) will defend it without question. It's the white-knight syndrome. And it applies to many topics that are pure opinion debates, outside the realm of MMOs.
Some can't be or won't be objective, or critical, or reasonable or logical. From member to member, it's simply a matter of degree, and often associated with the amount or time invested, respectively.
I've seen it with every MMO that has any form of pre-beta access, so far. And it will continue post-launch, too, via whatever communication methods are made available, if history is any indication.Moderation can fix it, but it requires disciplining members of the community that have paid money to speak their opinion, so censoring, editing, or muting them (even temporarily) is not well received.
To be fair that's not the kind of hate I am talking about lol. I actually very rarely see flame posts, although they do occur, some people just can't handle the fact that other people have opinions. However, my question, as stated above isn't just about hate, it's more about how to handle the above situations to avoid any hate or needing a moderator to step in and lock a thread.
Indeed the goal should not be to try to prevent other people from reacting a certain way because that's not something you can control. Therefore, trying to control that would only cause frustration and be a complete waste of time. Instead, you should focus on what you can control: how you react to those situations. Essentially, the most important thing is to FIRST pause and make sure that you aren't just emotionally reacting. Set emotions aside and think clearly. Anyone can do that with practice. Then read and re-read what someone has written to try to understand their perspective as accurately as possible. If you don't understand, simply ask for clarification. Next, explain your side as clearly and calmly as possible. Phrasing is very important, especially in written-only interactions. People have a tendency to interpret your written words in the tone that they expect, not necessarily what was intended. So as much as possible, it's best to careful choose phrasing that is almost impossible to be taken in an aggressive manner. If there are gaps in communicating your message, that runs the risk of other people filling those gaps in ways you didn't intend. So the best thing you can do is try to fill in as many of those gaps as you can beforehand and communicate thoroughly. Usually, the less aggressive they perceive you to be, the less defensive they feel like they have to be, and therefore it's more possible to have a productive conversation. One of the benefits of written interactions is that you have a chance to re-read what you wrote and consider the different ways it could be taken, and then rephrase if necessary before posting. I highly recommend getting in that habit. There are obviously more nuances than that and it takes practice, but that's my basic advice. Set an example for how you want the interaction to take place. People will usually notice and follow suit. And if you do everything you can to set a positive tone and someone still goes off the chain, and you can't reel them back in, that's nothing but their fault and you need to decide when it's best to just walk away. Humans always have and always will differing opinions, but that's not necessarily a bad thing if you take the time to understand not only WHAT they're saying, but WHY they're saying it, before expressing your own thoughts.
Dubah said:Sorry, I can't think of another word for this but hate, even tho that the hate is not intentional in what I'm about to discuss except in part 2. So let's start with part 1.
1) So many times someone creates a topic they would like to discuss, granted there may already be older topics for people to read on, but why? So much has changed over the last year, maybe those 6-12 month + topics need some more discussion. I can understand the devs don't want a flood of repeat topics, to which, makes sense. However, this will lead me into part 2 where the real use of the word hate comes from -
2) People always get hated on for necroing dead threads. Sure there may be an old topic already, but maybe I want to add some elements to it that I think would be a cool system or something. So do I necro the thread? Nope, really can't unless you want people to complain, although I'm not sure that has happened here, I keep an eye on it and talk in topics that I think are crucial, and don't really pay attention to the ones that I know VR already has a handle on, and I like their style. So then, do I just open a new post and post my thoughts about it? Nope, it gets locked and i get told where the 20 topics that are dead already are.
So my question is simple for this forum, where does the hate end? Should I necro a post with my thoughts and personal opinions? Or should I open a new thread so it's brand spanking new and people aren't getting lost in 20 pages of chat, mostly for the newcomers to the forum.
Like I said, hate doesn't work in both instances lol, but it was the only word i could think of at the time, so don't hate me for using hate.
Anyways, thoughts? Comments? Concerns? Complaints? Please feel free to discuss so I know my actions in the future.
I think the word you were looking for is "scolding." Regardles of which step you described, someone will often scold you for what you did. Often this can be aggressive sounding, or feeling (as hate), and lead to a defensive repost by the perpetrator. This is where all the replies in this thread are honestly, and properly, giving great advice on how to handle it (if it happens to you). I often trigger defensive reposts because I don't realize how people are reading my words.
I love that this was discussed because as this game grows this will happen. I think the comments/advice given are very valuable for all forum users to know and adapt.
One of the keys to remember is that this is a “Developers Forum” and not an open user forum. It exists as a medium for us “the backers” to communicate with VR. Primarily in the last year that has mostly been in the form of news announcements and posts from Kilson and Convo. Occasionally one of the leads will have time to post and even occasionally the War Mage does when the stars align to give him both a few free seconds and a few free brain cells at the same time.
Outside of the posts from VR to us, the board functions as a way to vet ideas and concepts as well as general focus group responses to different topics of interest. As a way to streamline and centralize a collection of all views on a specific target they have asked us to use already established threads rather than starting new ones on a topic. It is more useful for VR if we keep differing opinions in the same thread that way it is easier to compare and contrast the opinions in order to understand the key points and common grounds.
The issue is when we posters become aggressive and unkind with each other and turn a cordial discourse into a heated flame war. For the health of a thread, and this board in general, it is important to be respectful and reread your post before adding it to a thread. While misinterpretations are exceedingly easy to make when reading text only posts that do not contain body language that humans use to communicate the intensity of a thought, we as posters usually know when we are either stirring the pot or being over baring with our opinions.
While it is daunting to read an entire 20+ pages of posts on a topic started more than 2 years ago it is honestly more likely to have your opinions heard if you are agreeing with someone else already in the thread. While every opinion has value, very popular or very unpopular ideas will be viewed more seriously than one off posts and the easiest way to establish popularity is the number of agreements or disagreements in a single thread.
I personally encourage you to read the largest thread on a topic you wish to discuss, thoroughly understand all the views that have been posted, and add your opinions to the topic. It may seem like your voice is not heard but the team has said time and again that they are reading the posts, especially on the serious threads. Don’t be discouraged if someone disagrees with you and try not to take it personally but if you are feeling personally harassed feel empowered to use the report button as it is against the board code of conduct, I do.
Trasak
Dubah said:Sorry, I can't think of another word for this but hate, even tho that the hate is not intentional in what I'm about to discuss except in part 2. So let's start with part 1.
1) So many times someone creates a topic they would like to discuss, granted there may already be older topics for people to read on, but why? So much has changed over the last year, maybe those 6-12 month + topics need some more discussion. I can understand the devs don't want a flood of repeat topics, to which, makes sense. However, this will lead me into part 2 where the real use of the word hate comes from -
2) People always get hated on for necroing dead threads. Sure there may be an old topic already, but maybe I want to add some elements to it that I think would be a cool system or something. So do I necro the thread? Nope, really can't unless you want people to complain, although I'm not sure that has happened here, I keep an eye on it and talk in topics that I think are crucial, and don't really pay attention to the ones that I know VR already has a handle on, and I like their style. So then, do I just open a new post and post my thoughts about it? Nope, it gets locked and i get told where the 20 topics that are dead already are.
So my question is simple for this forum, where does the hate end? Should I necro a post with my thoughts and personal opinions? Or should I open a new thread so it's brand spanking new and people aren't getting lost in 20 pages of chat, mostly for the newcomers to the forum.
Like I said, hate doesn't work in both instances lol, but it was the only word i could think of at the time, so don't hate me for using hate.
Anyways, thoughts? Comments? Concerns? Complaints? Please feel free to discuss so I know my actions in the future.
Kilsin has stated several times..that he would PREFER that we necro threads as opposed to creating multiple threads..that in the end he has to clean up. These are after all the Developer forums, and there's just Kilsin that deals with all the thousands and thousands of posts, he also acts as liason or intermediary...passing on our thoughts or pointing out a specific thread that the Devs MAY want to respond to when they have time. Therefore..it is actually more convenient for our community manager and the Dev team, if we keep to the already posted topics..and not create threads willy nilly that should have been added to the older threads. :)
Not sure where the "hate" at people who necro threads comes from...necroing is the correct action to do on these forums. Let's please be aware of this. :)
I think I know where this misinterpretation comes from...on any OTHER forum over the years, you would be verbally spanked for necroing threads..not here. Let's clear this misconception up ...and necro away. :P
Cana