Good point. I've always had the dream that when we start/create a character in these games we could do an off-line mode tutorial.
We awaken inside a deolate run down cottage, our spirit guide (or whatever) talks to us. There are weapons around the cottage, a sword, axe, bow, staff, 2h sword etc. etc. etc.
Our sprit guide (or whatever you fancy) talks us through using these items, he (our sprit guide) also gives us a bit of into to the game and our charactes back story. (Why we're in this cottage, where we are in the world, what happend to this cottage etc.)
The weapon we have choosen, oddly enough, is a relic from ages ago. (This is key becuase at mid level, you can quest to restore your beginning weapon to is once mighty state, then at end game you can upgrade it again to an Epic weapon of lore something something something, so keeping this weapon in a safe location is a good idea.)
Anyway, the off-line mode tuturial can ease us into the game, give us all the tools and tips we need to head out into the world. There could even be an option to choose a main tradeskill and a secondary skill with all of the nessisary machines in the cottage to show you how to use them.
You realize that you are lying naked in front of a tavern. You have a vague memory of drinking until you couldn't pay the tab and being stripped of your clothes and possessions and tossed into the gutter. A large bootmark on your naked behind reinforces this memory. You do not remember any friends or relatives or where you were stating before this - what a binge!
People walk past occasionally, often carrying weapons. You see a spot where the torch is out and the street is dark. It occurs to you that wearing clothes and having a weapon is better than lying naked in the gutter - it is *cold* and wet out here. You see one obvious way of remedying your sartorial deficiency. You tell yourself that once you obtain some money you can repay your intended victim, or his or her surviving family. You crawl out of the gutter and position yourself behind a large tree. You carefully avoid getting splinters in your naked skin the tree's bark is far worse than its bite.
bigdogchris said:I am OK with giving players the option to adjust your starting equipment, as long as it's all balanced of course. If you can kill the level 1 content with 1 swing of a 2-hander, but it takes several hits with a single weapon, that wouldn't be balanced.
I'd lean this way as well. Axe or sword? Whichever floats your boat but both are gong to be < 2.1 dps pieces of garbage...
randomrob82 said:What's all this noise about starting with a weapon?
I'd imagine that we'd start with nothing and would have to punch 100's of rats to death in order to sell their skins to a lowly merchant in order to save up for a rusty weapon and some rags.
You're a natural monk! ;)
But, yeah, this has my vote.
I guess it all depends on back story for new adventurers, though. Did you just step out of your family home to adventure for the first time? Did you just finish your class training? Did you just escape from prison? Just get shipwrecked? Just get abducted by aliens?...
randomrob82 said:What's all this noise about starting with a weapon?
I had the same thought. I'd love to see something like the old MUDs, where you wake up in your starting city with nothing and have to figure out how to find food and water before you start dying. This leaves you free to develop any backstory you want for why you ended up in that situation.
The game should **never** force any kind of character traits on a player character, such as binge drinking. (*casts a stern look at dorotea*) The most important rule of Roleplay is that you never describe another player's actions; the game should honor that as well.
randomrob82 said:What's all this noise about starting with a weapon?
I'd imagine that we'd start with nothing and would have to punch 100's of rats to death in order to sell their skins to a lowly merchant in order to save up for a rusty weapon and some rags.
Yes this
And please no tutorial, we can figure it out easy enough.. did it years ago.
Besides a tutorial as described by the OP would either deluxe the individual starting city experience or would multiply the work required by the design to get to launch.
Give me necked and alone... I'll take it from there!
SKDrake1 said:I would like the ability to choose my starting weapon within my class restriction of course. Example as a warrior I want to start with a 2h axe as opposed to a wooden training sword. what adventure would ever go out with a practice sword?
Just to reassure you, in Everquest, you pretty much had every beginner (rusty) weapon variant you could want after 30 minutes of killing skeletons and orcs outside the starting city ;)
There won't be much magic in Pantheon, if it's anything like EQ, but there are plenty of mundane options.
For the record I agree with Nihimon, of course, I just couldn't resist.
I mostly share the anti-tutorial views but I still feel a tutorial would be good for the game, although personally I don't need one either.
There will be players far less experienced with MMOs - maybe totally new to MMOs - and this is good for the game not bad. Let's give them a chance to learn in a safe environment with no time pressure at all.
When I say learn I mean really basic stuff. What command moves you right or left. What is the jump command. How do you attack. How do you loot. Things most of *us* have done so often we can figure it out because there are only so many ways to do it and we have played games using them all.
A few caveats to agree with those that don't want tutorials - I *did* say I mostly agreed.
1. A check-off box in character creation such as LOTRO uses to bypass the tutorial. Even those that want it on a first character are unlikely to need it on later ones.
2. No significant reward for doing the tutorial. Maybe a really crappy weapon even worse than the worst weapon a vendor will sell for rat skins so you can learn how to equip it. Maybe equally crappy clothes. No xp.
I agree that you should have the chance to create your own back story. Something that says "this is a tutorial teaching you basic commands" works for me but maybe isn't the best way to suck a new player into the game. A more ...immersive ....tutorial can carefully avoid setting any backstories. Starting "You wake up in Rat's Butt" with only basic clothes and the dagger you use to cut your food" says *nothing* about how you got there or who you are. Adding "You have no memory about how you got there, but there is a large bump on the back of your head" goes very marginally further but still says nothing about you or your past.
Killing 100 rats to raise a bit of coin used to be a MMO or MUD staple. I would actually like that start hackneyed as it became just for nostalgia and humor. The way many MMOs have guano and other poop collection quests as a nod to previous MMOs that had them (WoW being the most well known although surely not the first).
dorotea said:For the record I agree with Nihimon, of course, I just couldn't resist.
I figured you were joking; I hope my glance wasn't too stern. *casts a playful wink at dorotea*
dorotea said:I mostly share the anti-tutorial views but I still feel a tutorial would be good for the game...
I'm torn on this as well.
I understand the business side of the equation, which wants to maximize customer engagement and minimize the opportunities the customer has to just walk away...
But I also have fantastic memories of playing my first MUD and being greeted with:
You are hungry.
You are thirsty.
Having to figure out how to deal with that was a little frustrating, but looking back, it was a hook into socializing with the community and, more importantly, it's an extremely fond memory.