Iksar said:Tralyan said:When you go into a level locked zone that you're just barely high enough for, without the foresight to give yourself an XP cushion, that should come with penalties - and yet, we want to avoid wasting CS time just because someone wasn't prepared. Creating a very-worst-case-scenario summoning tool with punishment so egregious that it would be insane to make use of it for a run of the mill death is one way to avoid wasting CS time while sticking with the harsh penalties *most* of us want.
Though I concede that in order to make sure it's not used for every death, the punishments would have to be really, really, reeeeeeeeeeeally bad - and that comes with its own set of challenges.
The simple answer to that one is once a character hits a zone level requirement they get flagged for permanent access regardless of current level.
As for losing levels or debt etc... I don't think any of it really makes death something to be feared at max level unless resurrect sucks more than any other game. In EQ dying at level 50/60 was no big deal since you'd generally have no problem finding a rez for 98% xp return. Even if rez only returned 50% of the exp that would still end up being around 20/21 deaths before any de-leveling or debt.
This is a very good point and worthy of some debate in itself. Even though I played a cleric to high level in EQ and it was awesome to be so needed and loved, those 98% ressurections were ridiculous. Death was nothing much at high level. Even a complete wipe of a 100-man dragon raid. It took about an hour to get everyone up and going again, but *shrug* what's an hour as 'punishment' when you're fighting the toughest stuff (and getting the best rewards) in the game.
I think death in Pantheon should be even rougher than EQ (but, to get back to the OP, sorry, I don't see click click click on a loot box as 'rough' I see it as 'annoyance').
Tralyan said:That's a good point.
On that topic, I ran into a fella on P99 that told me he will regularly level to 57, and then de-level down to 42 so that he can still group with his brother. In cases like this, would you think it "fair" or feasible for someone who de-levels to such an extent to still have access to those places they unlocked previously?
I don't see why not (though they could mentor down in Pantheon), going into a level 57 zone as a 42 won't do the player any good.
oneADseven said:Was it common in EQ for content to be gated based on a level requirement? For some reason I have a feeling that we wouldn't see this type of restriction in force to begin with so I'm not terribly concerned with it.
It was very uncommon. In fact I think it was only used for entering the planes of the gods, you'd get a message when trying to zone in below level 46 saying something about having insufficient will IIRC. I wouldn't mind level gated zones so long as they are only used once or twice.
Iksar said:Tralyan said:That's a good point.
On that topic, I ran into a fella on P99 that told me he will regularly level to 57, and then de-level down to 42 so that he can still group with his brother. In cases like this, would you think it "fair" or feasible for someone who de-levels to such an extent to still have access to those places they unlocked previously?
I don't see why not (though they could mentor down in Pantheon), going into a level 57 zone as a 42 won't do the player any good.
oneADseven said:Was it common in EQ for content to be gated based on a level requirement? For some reason I have a feeling that we wouldn't see this type of restriction in force to begin with so I'm not terribly concerned with it.
It was very uncommon. In fact I think it was only used for entering the planes of the gods, you'd get a message when trying to zone in below level 46 saying something about having insufficient will IIRC. I wouldn't mind level gated zones so long as they are only used once or twice.
Since the portals were just way in and not out, I guess it was just to avoid a newbie accidentaly stepping in withouth any knowledge. Back then, level cap was a huge work and you wouldn't do it withouth any idea of what that specific portal would be.
MauvaisOeil said:Since the portals were just way in and not out, I guess it was just to avoid a newbie accidentaly stepping in withouth any knowledge. Back then, level cap was a huge work and you wouldn't do it withouth any idea of what that specific portal would be.
It was actually because none of the gear was level restricted, so they implemented the level restriction to enter the zone because guilds were taking in their lowby alts and gearing them up with planar gear.
I didn't know this fact, thanks then.
Such heavy twinking shouldn't be the case in pantheon as your skills will determinate how much you can take benefit of an item.
Still, twinking a low level alt will guarantee him to have a "scaling" gear up to level max, but shouldn't give him an edge like it did in EQ.
dorotea said:I am in the camp that says we don't need to make things tedious and boring and then crow about this being challenging.
Let's make finding things challenging. Let's make killing things challenging. Let's make death cost enough experience that we all want to try *hard* not to do it too often. If the main reason I respect the Grim Reaper is not wanting to spend 30 minutes clicking on a corpse we have gone seriously off track.
Yup the REAL challenges..still like the loot all thing however, up and moving keeping up with the group. Looting one's corpse shouldn't be considered any kind of challenge at all, not in the same category, as where we've been exploring and adventuring.