whats the difference if your general utility spells are on another hotbar along with your combat oriented abilities spells on a different one. I guess i just do not understand the limit of just one hot bar if you can just hit a key and have another hot bar pop up?
Why not let the players determine how they want their hot bars set up... keeping 3 or 4 on their screen or just hitting a key to have different hot bars pop up? I personally like to have all the hot bars i need on my screen. Others may prefer it differently. But their is no reason you cannot be able to choose how you want your ui set up.
Sure restricting one bar for only combat abilities is fine but one should be able to have another bar for their utility abilities and another for what ever else or even a 4th for what ever non combat things they want on it.
As far as the actual combat abilities go, I am 100% in favor of having a limit of 10 or 12 abilities. However I would love to have a second hotbar for emotes and text macro's. I love the fact that you have to pick the abilities that you want to have available for any given fight. It adds a layer of planning and thought, rather than just having the twitch skill to hit the right button on your 12 hotbars.
Cynwulf said:whats the difference if your general utility spells are on another hotbar along with your combat oriented abilities spells on a different one. I guess i just do not understand the limit of just one hot bar if you can just hit a key and have another hot bar pop up?Why not let the players determine how they want their hot bars set up... keeping 3 or 4 on their screen or just hitting a key to have different hot bars pop up? I personally like to have all the hot bars i need on my screen. Others may prefer it differently. But their is no reason you cannot be able to choose how you want your ui set up.
Sure restricting one bar for only combat abilities is fine but one should be able to have another bar for their utility abilities and another for what ever else or even a 4th for what ever non combat things they want on it.
I agree. Why force limitations on people.
Cynwulf said:whats the difference if your general utility spells are on another hotbar along with your combat oriented abilities spells on a different one. I guess i just do not understand the limit of just one hot bar if you can just hit a key and have another hot bar pop up?
Why not let the players determine how they want their hot bars set up... keeping 3 or 4 on their screen or just hitting a key to have different hot bars pop up? I personally like to have all the hot bars i need on my screen. Others may prefer it differently. But their is no reason you cannot be able to choose how you want your ui set up.
Sure restricting one bar for only combat abilities is fine but one should be able to have another bar for their utility abilities and another for what ever else or even a 4th for what ever non combat things they want on it.
I don't think many are arguing for not having more hotbars, just only having one hotbar of abilities that's usable in combat.
I believe the idea is that you should be concentrating on the movement, tactics and timings of the encounter not watching 4 hotbars of ability cooldowns.
I think the devs believe that limiting your choice focuses you on preparation a bit more and not just on reacting in the moment.
Is 12 combat abilities really restrictive?
Also, we are still in pre-alpha and they have said even something as fundamental as hotbars could still change depending on testing feedback.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if the number expands. There is a balance point where you are over-simplifying at the expense of reducing tactical possibilities, one example being, if it's tough to fit buffs in your combat bar, then having monsters that dispell buffs would be really harsh, but then, once you know a certain area has those monsters, you prepare by putting essential buffs in the combat bar...
In a game where you need a lot of macros, like EQ, I like having a seperate hotbar for macros or other non-combat spells/abilities. However, I don't think there will be a need for a lot of macros in this game.
If there's going to be a lot of macros, I would rather there be a dedicated, 8 or possibly 10 slot "ability/spell" bar that only allows those types of abilities, then perhaps another 8 bar for macros/custom buttons.
If not, then the single 12 slot seems to be OK as well as I can't imagine right now having more than a few macro's, maybe "who target" and "assist".
So as of right now, I'm happy with the current layout.
I think LAS is a huge mistake, it's a cheap, artifical way to simulate "challenge". When youre going to take something down if there isn't a cookie cutter "best" build anyway which most people will follow as that's human nature, then there will be guides online for encounters with best action sets to use. I'll grant that 12 is generous for this type of thing, but why have the restriction in the first place? Why do there have to be hollow limitations on the player?
Really truly disappointed
silenthill27 said:I think LAS is a huge mistake, it's a cheap, artifical way to simulate "challenge". When youre going to take something down if there isn't a cookie cutter "best" build anyway which most people will follow as that's human nature, then there will be guides online for encounters with best action sets to use. I'll grant that 12 is generous for this type of thing, but why have the restriction in the first place? Why do there have to be hollow limitations on the player?
Really truly disappointed
No, not really. It goes back to roots of PnP roleplaying where spell casters had to prepare their spells to use for that day.
I don't have a problem with it at all. In fact, I prefer it to games where you have screen full of hotbars.
I'm guessing that's shorthand for something like "Limited Action Slots"? I will say it is going to take more than button placement limitation to keep the playerbase from trying to break the game via actions-per-minute button mashing rather than using what's between their ears and playing with a sense of tactics and situational awareness. Many MMOs use very scripted combat for higher end / raid content and people use to that will be looking for the 'best' way to do that here. I don't necessarily think that's out of malice. It's just what they are use to.
The developers are going to need to think about how they want the game to be played, and they are going to design for that from the ground up. The creatures, abilities, environments, skills, class interplay, enemy AI, ability cooldowns, presence of a GCD (or not), whether abilities will inter-effect each other and a zillion other things will have an impact. The devs also need to be aware that people will try to break / find the easiest way through the content they create. There will be a meta, love it or hate it. These are just aspects of the gaming community as a whole. Not everyone is going to be concerned about this stuff and trying to turn the world into a speed run / hamster wheel, but having a percentage who will is something that cannot be helped.
Personally, I'm looking forward to choosing whether and when to use my character's skills, whether that's choosing between what I have on my bar in combat, or changing what's there for different areas. It's a very different feeling than having an automated cycle of, say, 1-2-3-5-4-dead. Especially when you add the group based dynamics we are being enticed with (as opposed to solo emphasis.)
I just realized how disappointed I am by this.
Recently have been playing a new MMO that does this. Only give me 12 hotkey slots for my abilities, and when asked in chat "why?" the response from the chat was "You have to be tackful." "You have to plan your fights." "You suck." Well, I understand them, I do suck, but also, it's extreamly annoying when I encounter a different type of mob that I hadn't "planned for" and all of the sudden I'm stuggeling vs. something I should be able to handle.
I get over it, change my keys, continue fighting new mobs, but ya know what happens next? I run into another type of mob that I'm not properly suited for because I have the wrong keys on my hot bar and I stuggle again. But it's all good I have the abilities, let me just pause, take the time and switch out abilities again and I'm back at it. This goes on all night, every night, I'm constantly switching. Not because I want to and not because I'm planning to, but because I have to and it's extreamly annoying.
I've stopped adventruing and just stay put now, I don't want to die because I accidently ran into a new mob and had the wrong hotkeys. It's annoying and boring now. I'm currently trying to just find the 12 correct hot keys that might not be the best, but will be the safest as I'd actually like to adventure, and not sit in one place all night becuase changing hot keys 4 or 5 times everythign time I walk 15 mins across the map is annoying.
Kittik said:I just realized how disappointed I am by this.
Recently have been playing a new MMO that does this. Only give me 12 hotkey slots for my abilities, and when asked in chat "why?" the response from the chat was "You have to be tackful." "You have to plan your fights." "You suck." Well, I understand them, I do suck, but also, it's extreamly annoying when I encounter a different type of mob that I hadn't "planned for" and all of the sudden I'm stuggeling vs. something I should be able to handle.
I get over it, change my keys, continue fighting new mobs, but ya know what happens next? I run into another type of mob that I'm not properly suited for because I have the wrong keys on my hot bar and I stuggle again. But it's all good I have the abilities, let me just pause, take the time and switch out abilities again and I'm back at it. This goes on all night, every night, I'm constantly switching. Not because I want to and not because I'm planning to, but because I have to and it's extreamly annoying.
I've stopped adventruing and just stay put now, I don't want to die because I accidently ran into a new mob and had the wrong hotkeys. It's annoying and boring now. I'm currently trying to just find the 12 correct hot keys that might not be the best, but will be the safest as I'd actually like to adventure, and not sit in one place all night becuase changing hot keys 4 or 5 times everythign time I walk 15 mins across the map is annoying.
From the streams POV I really don't think it's such an issue. It's not like "you had the wrong spell you can't even damage that ennemy" but more "You are against wraith and could use, for you and your team, to dispell the curse they put on themselves".
Anyway it's not going to be a solo game so... probably adventuring alone will be hard and failfull.
silenthill27 said:I think LAS is a huge mistake, it's a cheap, artifical way to simulate "challenge". When youre going to take something down if there isn't a cookie cutter "best" build anyway which most people will follow as that's human nature, then there will be guides online for encounters with best action sets to use. I'll grant that 12 is generous for this type of thing, but why have the restriction in the first place? Why do there have to be hollow limitations on the player?
Really truly disappointed
It's not really cheap or artificial, it makes knowledge far more important which does in fact add a layer of challenge compared to being able to blindly wander into any encounter and be good to go regardless. This allows a much greater chance to be caught off-guard and find your group fighting with their backs against the wall, which you don't really see in modern MMOs. It adds to teamwork and minor amounts of socialization, for any given fight a class might have 20+ good spells they have to choose from and depending on their group make-up they will likely find they are using different sets of spells for the same encounter.
Anyway, here is a bit from one of Brad's blog entries last year:
Aradune said:...I can reveal what we are generally trying to accomplish and the vision and thinking behind it, but it's too early to set number of slots or anything else in stone, specifics and the like.
Fundamentally, what we're shooting for here is needing to plan for that next encounter, especially significant encounters (boss mobs and the like). There should be a noticeable reward for prepping for an encounter properly vs. just running into combat without any forethought or tactics.
There ideally shouldn't be a set of abilities that is always optimal. It should change depending on where you are and what you are going up against.
We don't want it to be so key that you are messing with your character's configuration all of the time (needlessly tedious). Also any type of reconfiguration of your character, or anything really that you may end up doing relatively frequently needs to be supported by an intuitive and easy to use UI and interface. But on the opposite extreme we do want people to learn about encounters, figure out tactics, etc. again the more so the more significant the mob. As you learn a dungeon and master its significant or special encounters a big part of that process should be learning what kind of defensive and offensive capabilities these mobs have. Also, their disposition and behaviors. Running in blind or with minimal planning should put you at a disadvantage vs. the party that *did* plan.
Of course, this extends beyond spells that you mem. Situational gear should play a part as well. Relics and artifacts should play an important role in the big fights. Your group composition and how you work with others and not just individually should matter too. The buffs you apply to yourself and party should matter. Group positioning (both initial positioning and then re-positioning either based on a plan or in reaction to something the mob did or is about to do), depending on class, DPS, ability to tank or off-tank, etc. should be very important. What we're trying to implement and reward are real tactics that give you an advantage over the party who just rushes in blindly with little to no thoughtful preparation. In MMOs your characters abilities, items, etc. generally matter a lot. Then comes buffs. Then eventually actual tactics.
I personally don't see one necessarily always being more important than the other. Certainly, the items you are using, how you are buffed, etc. should matter a *lot*. Pantheon will always be an item-centric and 'ability important' game. But that by no means is a scenario where, at any given level, there's one optimal configuration and as long as you adhere to it, you'll be in good shape. Items, stats, buffs, etc. will always be extremely important. Having that optimal configuration vary depending on who you are, where you are, who you are with, etc. is very important to us -- no 'one size fits all'.
But then there's actually how you play the game once you start the encounter battle. The last thing we want is just button mashing... auto-attack and rescue if you're a tank. Hold back and then mana dump a bunch of damage spells at the right time if you're a caster.... All of this is fine to a degree, but I think it's devolved over time and the optimal use of tactics once in the battle seems to have had less and less importance over the years. It's hard to see all of this in a text description of it, or by watching a twitch stream, but a lot of it is there already, at least the genesis of it. Ideally as these systems mature and as we get more people into the game, we'll figure out clear and obvious ways to communicate that to the viewer. Especially the younger gamer who many not have ever experienced this style of MMO combat done right. Somehow we need to convey this visually -- we need to make it apparent in a video or stream that our combat is not brainless button mashing -- unfortunately, unless your combat system is all action-oriented (say, for example, Destiny) people who've never experienced such a system watch the video and conclude (wrongly) that the combat is simplistic or brainless. Quite the opposite is true, of course. In fact I'd say that both the preparation and execution of combat, both doing what you were planning as well as responding to your allies *and* your enemies decisions creates a situation that is much more complex and involved than what we've often seen as of late. Our intent is to take the 'tab targeting' combat system rarely seen anymore and to turn it up to 11, so to speak. You need to be paying attention. You need to have counterspells and defensive reactions and you need to use them at the optimal times. As mentioned, you need to correctly prep for the next encounter and then execute upon your plan during that encounter. What we're assembling here is about as far away from, and as different and distinct from, the excessively frequent and mindless button mashing and triple jumping all over the map in an MMO as you can get.
I'd also like to see Mana and other resource management mean more in Pantheon than what we've experienced in recent times. I remember in MUDs and MMOs I used to play that this resource management was very important. Some systems made you take up a slot with the spell/ability you were memming. Sometimes you'd mem both your best healing spell (just as an example) but you'd also fill up a slot with a lesser powerful healing spell as well. Why? Because often times it wasn't simply true that using your latest and greatest spell was always the best strategy. Sometimes it was more mana efficient to use your lesser heals and you'd hold back and only use your latest and greatest when the situation truly called for it...
There are some very interesting "conditional logic" applications that could potentially allow some meaningful things to happen, even with a single hotbar. Positioning, the living codex, colored mana, progeny, stances, armor/weapon choice and specialization all come to mind. Depending on how/if these features are implemented, I can see a great deal of strategy coming into fruition that would really reinforce the value of a single hotbar while still providing flexibility and rewarding situational awareness.
oneADseven said:There are some very interesting "conditional logic" applications that could potentially allow some meaningful things to happen, even with a single hotbar. Positioning, the living codex, colored mana, progeny, stances, armor/weapon choice and specialization all come to mind. Depending on how/if these features are implemented, I can see a great deal of strategy coming into fruition that would really reinforce the value of a single hotbar while still providing flexibility and rewarding situational awareness.
You make a good point AD and I tend to agree. However, I would really love to see a bar that you could bring up that could only be populated with Buffs. One of the biggest pains I remember from EQ, was when buffs dropped off of group members you had to drop several spells and memorize the buffs, cast them, then rememorize the spells you just dropped. It was un-fun and did not add any challenge to the game. And on a large raid , Fuggeddaboutit I am too old to put up with the constant deep knee bends memming and unmemming spells for Buffs. Buff Bar for the win !
Other than the Buffing Issue I am good with it how it is.
There are games with a small number of abilities that have deep and rewarding combat, so I don't see the limited action set as inherently "limiting" in that regard. I've played MMO's where you have 40 useful abilities (1-10, alt 1-10, shift 1-10, ctrl 1-10) that you need to use and where you weren't capping out your efficiency until you were in the hundreds of ability-related actions per minute and that's before you take into account all the mechanics specific to an encounter. Many people are intelligent, strategic, and determined, yet they just don't do well with that style of game. They end up struggling to maintain efficiency, neglect encounter mechanics, and then get frustrated.
I personally love strategic turn-based combat, twitch combat, high apm stressful combat, and everything inbetween. They can all be employed to great success, but they have different target audiences and ideal session lengths. I adore the notion of MMORPGs being accessible to people of all ages and gaming ability (gaming with a grandmother when I was 13 was revelatory to me), and slower strategic combat that requires limited keyboard hotkeying, less frequent clicks, and allowing you to pay attention to your surroundings just works better with that vision. That doesn't mean that the game will be easy or that the skill cap will be low, it's just a different style of game. Even in the slowest strategic turn-based combat game a skilled and knowledgeable player can stand out amongst the crowd though, so those who want to prove themselves should rest assured they will able to do so regardless of limited action sets or not.
Let me name 2 games that failed in regards to ability access bars in my opinion; GW2 and ESO. I could be ok with one 12 slot bar of abilities but would prefer more. I do like the idea of as many bars as I please for anything and everything else, it is my UI not yours and if I want it cluttered, well, I call it organized. A segregated buff bar is a great idea as well as a debuff abilities bar. I like having a crafting dedicated bar, a food and drink bar, mounts, fishing gear, macros, and the list goes on. It is simply what I have grown used to in 2 decades and I really will not ever get on board with a less is more mentallity (had to fight the Skyrim fanboys in ESO beta for 9 months over just that).
I also keep my bags neat and organized; each one has a dedicated purpose but typically only the main one is for general use.
I certainly don't want any asthetic that can even remotely give me the impression that the game is secretly being designed for a controller (Console) - even if it's not, impressions do count, hence my strong dislike for ESO and GW2 looking bars.
@Skycaster -- I agree with you about buffs deserving a spot of their own. Personally, I really enjoyed how EQ2 handled their buffing system. There were a lot of buffs that were persistent, some were temporary (range of timers ranging from really short to semi-long), some required concentrations slots, some were group-only, some were on-target. There was plenty of strategy with how you timed your buffs, who got them, and which ones were situationally prioritized. They were used as an element of strategy and really boosted the idea of different classes offering situational value. At the same time, they weren't overly tedious to keep track of (except necro/conj hearts/shards which was eventually changed.)
@Ainadak -- I am kind of right there with you. I enjoy the fast paced style of MOBA games and the high action per minute style that you see in RTS games like Age of Empires. I enjoy shooter games or even timed games like some of the Final Fantasy series. True turn based games can also be fun, or even team based turn games like Final Fantasy Tactics. You can slow it down all the way to chess or poker and I'll still be having a great time. When it comes to an MMO, I do prefer things to be slowed down quite a bit. I don't want to see the DDR style of combat that we saw in FFXIV or even WoW. I want to have a chance to respond that doesn't require some sort of add-on to make it feasible. EQ2 was highly mechanical but probably a bit too much considering the penalty for death in Pantheon will be a bit more harsh. Of all the games I have played, I'm thinking I would probably enjoy the pace of FFXI the most. Slow combat, but still highly strategic with features like XP Chains and Skill Chains.
Dashed said:Let me name 2 games that failed in regards to ability access bars in my opinion; GW2 and ESO. I could be ok with one 12 slot bar of abilities but would prefer more. I do like the idea of as many bars as I please for anything and everything else, it is my UI not yours and if I want it cluttered, well, I call it organized. A segregated buff bar is a great idea as well as a debuff abilities bar. I like having a crafting dedicated bar, a food and drink bar, mounts, fishing gear, macros, and the list goes on. It is simply what I have grown used to in 2 decades and I really will not ever get on board with a less is more mentallity (had to fight the Skyrim fanboys in ESO beta for 9 months over just that).
I also keep my bags neat and organized; each one has a dedicated purpose but typically only the main one is for general use.
I certainly don't want any asthetic that can even remotely give me the impression that the game is secretly being designed for a controller (Console) - even if it's not, impressions do count, hence my strong dislike for ESO and GW2 looking bars.
Let me name two games that were successfull with this design : EQ and GW1.
The former was based with at most 8 spells memmed at once, and very few melee skills, and the latter with a some good choices to make, and some evident that could hardly be passed (the warrior sword chain / axe chains come in my mind first).
GW2 wanted to make it too "straight". You had 5 static weapon skills based on what you equip, a healing skill (because you know, in GW2 everyone does everything) 3 utilitaries skills (often buffs or damage) and an ultimate. That was very strict, much more than GW1 at his best time, and ended beeing really worse.
Eso well.. Eso did something, to achieve some goal, but for obscure reasons it appears absolutely uncomprensible to me. What did they try to achieve ? Did they even had a sight of gameplay in mind ? Did they just create random skills and added them in categories with no idea behind it ? I don't think they invested in game design, I think they just made abilities and told themselves "we will see what the player do with them and ajust then.". Let's face it, it was the biggest gameplay failure I ever played (I even prefered GW2, to be honest, as broken as it is).
Something like a better and more forward GW1 type of gameplay, sounds like a good idea to me. I had good times on this game even if I was really bad at it.
From the streams it looks like there are two hotbars; a combat hotbar by your targets, and a second hotbar on the right hand edge of the screen. I like the idea of only being able to put combat abilities on one bar and non-combat abilities / macros / trade skill stuff / whatever else on the non-combat bar.
There is no reason to have more than 12 combat slots open. How many games can you name where you really use more than 10 abilities during a fight? If you can name any at all they are Korean twitch spam MMO's where you are just mashing buttons as fast as you can anyway, which is not at all what we want.
I used 4-5 bars while I played EQ2 and I can think of plenty of reasons why it makes sense to have them. The most important reason, IMO, is to allow players to utilize "situational" abilities. I understand you can still do that with 12 slots on a single bar but it's much different. For example ... a healer might have 4-5 "oh crap!" abilities that are on long cooldowns in EQ2. These had to be used at really clutch moments and then they would be unavailable for awhile. I don't see it being feasible for players to have many of those kind of abilities on their bars in Pantheon. It's not a major issue ... but having 4-5 bars wasn't that big of a deal in EQ2. 2 of the bars were used regularly, everything else was highly situational and it was nice to have access to those abilities whenever you needed them. That said, I'm excited to try out whatever system Pantheon rolls with. It will be a little different from what I am used to but that's perfectly fine -- bring on the challenge!
I love that VR is, at least for the beginning, keeping the amount of combat spells/abilities to 1 hotbar. A lot of the other mmo’s I’ve played are so bloated with abilities.
I would Love to have a hotbar or two which would could hold my text macros and a few non-combat abilities
oneADseven said:I used 4-5 bars while I played EQ2 and I can think of plenty of reasons why it makes sense to have them. The most important reason, IMO, is to allow players to utilize "situational" abilities. I understand you can still do that with 12 slots on a single bar but it's much different. For example ... a healer might have 4-5 "oh crap!" abilities that are on long cooldowns in EQ2. These had to be used at really clutch moments and then they would be unavailable for awhile. I don't see it being feasible for players to have many of those kind of abilities on their bars in Pantheon. It's not a major issue ... but having 4-5 bars wasn't that big of a deal in EQ2. 2 of the bars were used regularly, everything else was highly situational and it was nice to have access to those abilities whenever you needed them. That said, I'm excited to try out whatever system Pantheon rolls with. It will be a little different from what I am used to but that's perfectly fine -- bring on the challenge!
I thinks it's all going to come back to how the combat style/ability system intertwines. In eq1, clerics had 1 spell they could use as an uh oh button, which left 7 other spell slots for everything else. I would regularly keep nukes and buffs on my cars just in case. .. once we started to gain alternate abilities through aa's... those were a separate hotbar so there was no limit to the number you could have ready.
I honestly do not think this will be the issue that most people think it will be. The combat system is one if the most important systems in the game. In sure they have a plan to make sure we are happy!
Okay I am going to try and clear up some confusion about this topic from what I know of EQ and EQ2 and how they are similar and differet.
Everquest (1)
So in Everquest (1) the player had to go around the world and buy their spells for that respective level when they reach the next milestone. In this process the player sat down in a meditation position opened their spell book and copied the spell into it.
Players are limited to a 8 spell gem slots. They had Hundreds of spells they could choose from ranging from various levels and expansions (obviously the higher level ones were better) to load into these gem slots. I.E. when I play a wizard I load my first 2-3 spells as Direct damage, 3-5 as AE spells. 6-7 Utility such as root; and alternating between the 7th and 8th slot I would have self buffs that wizards were alloted.
This caused spells to be more meaningful and more reliant compared to the EQ2 style spells and hot bars (I will get to that in a moment).
Everquest (1) Has 2 hotbars but each one has a multi-leveled bar (not sure how to explain it) but you would hit an arrow at the end of the hotbar and you could have a different setup on Hotbar-1-level-2 compared to your Hotbar-1-level-1. Granted you were still limited to that 8 spells, but there was more than enough room for potions, macros, etcetc.
For you spell casters that are so worried about your spells and needing to change them. Well in Everquest (1) the spell casters were able to sit down mid combat and change their spells accordingly GRANTED if they did not pull aggro and having a creatue well.... breathing down your face. So as long as you don't pull "sitting down" aggro you'd be able to freely change your spells as needed. (But fair warning, this sitting down mid combat can draw aggro and may end up wasting valuable nuking time)
Everquest (2)
So in Everquest (2) the player automatically earned a new "spell or skill" upon leveling up. If there was a new teir for this spell I.E. Firebolt I - To - Firebolt II. that new teir would replace the older one. Each spell also had a different rank. You started at an "Apprentice" skill, and you could obtain tomes and book that allowed you to turn the spell into "Adept" or even "Master" allowing these spells to Heal for more, or Damage for more, taunt, etcetc. Some other spells didn't get that multi-skill level such as some Revive spells.
In Everquest (2) players were allowed to have all their skills and spells on their hotbars including potions, macros, emotes, etcetc. but in return you have a (**** TON) bunch of hotbars filling up your screen. To the point that it feels over-whelming at times, and even forget that you have some spells. Most of the time you still rotated between the spells that still consisted of between like 5-10 different spells that Healed for the Most, or Damaged for the Most. etcetc leaving the rest of the spells as "meh" and to be used only when you need to. Especially as patches come through to Nerf or buff spells; players then would find a new "Rotation" of spells that would cause them to be the Top Parser for damage or heals etcetc.
Self-Opinion
So for my opinion I actually dislike the Everquest (2) hot-bar style, as 1) you have more than enough abilities and spells are your disposal and it causes other spells to be devalued. 2) I really just dislike cluttering up my screen with hot-bars just to fit all the damn spells on there. 3)Most of the time you are only really rotating through spells that are deemed "THE BEST".
My reasoning on how this "devalues" the other spells. Lets put this in retrospect of Everquest (1) and the limited spells. In Everquest (1) I would cast lets say "Firebolt-1. This Spell would do 200 damage and take what? 10 mana? 15 mana? out of your pool of 100mana at level 1. VS the Everquest (2) Firebolt-1. This spell would do 20 damage and take about the same mana, but your pull was insanely large of like 1k mana, then your spell was "apprentice teir" and you had all these other spells you had to cast just to equate to the amount of damage just to reach Everquest (1) damage spell. But you also have to include spell casting times. In Everquest (1) spells took some time to cast especially the more heavy hitting ones. In Everquest (2) most abilities and spells casted within about 2 seconds or less so you could just spam out your abilities.