Beowulf is a given name just like names such as max, dave, joe are... nothing wrong with using it.
Conan is a given irish name meaning little warrior or little hound or little wolf just like names such as scott, andrew or george...nothing wrong with using it.
Gandalf is a given norse name was used by a norse king well before J.R. tolkien used the name for a wizard. I am not sure it would fall under intellectual property today. It means wand elf in old norse. To be safe i would probably use the old spelling Gandalfr. Their was also a poem written about a dwarf named Gandalf.
Cynwulf said:Beowulf is a given name just like names such as max, dave, joe are... nothing wrong with using it.
Conan is a given irish name meaning little warrior or little hound or little wolf just like names such as scott, andrew or george...nothing wrong with using it.
Gandalf is a given norse name was used by a norse king well before J.R. tolkien used the name for a wizard. I am not sure it would fall under intellectual property today. It means wand elf in old norse. To be safe i would probably use the old spelling Gandalfr. Their was also a poem written about a dwarf named Gandalf.
Hehe this is exactly why if there is a rule is has to exclude current popular fiction.
There's an excuse (legimate reason or not) for every name. I know a guy called Harry Potter. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a stupid name to use as a Pantheon wizard.
You know if you used Gandalfr people would just think you're unimaginative and stuck an R on the end, right?
I don't mean to be combative and I understand your point, but I don't care if there was an ancient norse god called Hulk Hogan, it's still going to be a dumb and annoying thing to call your warrior,
disposalist said:Cynwulf said:Beowulf is a given name just like names such as max, dave, joe are... nothing wrong with using it.
Conan is a given irish name meaning little warrior or little hound or little wolf just like names such as scott, andrew or george...nothing wrong with using it.
Gandalf is a given norse name was used by a norse king well before J.R. tolkien used the name for a wizard. I am not sure it would fall under intellectual property today. It means wand elf in old norse. To be safe i would probably use the old spelling Gandalfr. Their was also a poem written about a dwarf named Gandalf.
Hehe this is exactly why if there is a rule is has to exclude current popular fiction.
There's an excuse (legimate reason or not) for every name. I know a guy called Harry Potter. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a stupid name to use as a Pantheon wizard.
You know if you used Gandalfr people would just think you're unimaginative and stuck an R on the end, right?
I don't mean to be combative and I understand your point, but I don't care if there was an ancient norse god called Hulk Hogan, it's still going to be a dumb and annoying thing to call your warrior,
I used to play a wizard named Saruman in EQ1. That was shitty and clearly lacking imagination, but I was young and I wouldn't blame anyone doing the same. We all think we have good ideas, but sometimes we end up realizing by ourselves it was dumb, but getting smacked on the head won't help the brain to grow up faster.
disposalist said:Cynwulf said:Beowulf is a given name just like names such as max, dave, joe are... nothing wrong with using it.
Conan is a given irish name meaning little warrior or little hound or little wolf just like names such as scott, andrew or george...nothing wrong with using it.
Gandalf is a given norse name was used by a norse king well before J.R. tolkien used the name for a wizard. I am not sure it would fall under intellectual property today. It means wand elf in old norse. To be safe i would probably use the old spelling Gandalfr. Their was also a poem written about a dwarf named Gandalf.
Hehe this is exactly why if there is a rule is has to exclude current popular fiction.
There's an excuse (legimate reason or not) for every name. I know a guy called Harry Potter. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a stupid name to use as a Pantheon wizard.
You know if you used Gandalfr people would just think you're unimaginative and stuck an R on the end, right?
I don't mean to be combative and I understand your point, but I don't care if there was an ancient norse god called Hulk Hogan, it's still going to be a dumb and annoying thing to call your warrior,
I really do not care that some ignorant nobody thought i just put an r behind Gandalf. hehe
Anyway luckily i have never used Gandalf or any of the above names in a game but i have no issues of folks using them...especially if their educated and realize the name came before popular fiction.
Popular fiction is very subjective and there are common names in such works from our past or even used in the present are we not to use the name Andrew because it was used in some Popular fiction?
Believe me if someone has a silly or stupid name i will pass them up on a group invite. Have done it before and sure i will do it again but a name like Beowulf or Conan would not bother me in the least.
MauvaisOeil said:disposalist said:Cynwulf said:Beowulf is a given name just like names such as max, dave, joe are... nothing wrong with using it.
Conan is a given irish name meaning little warrior or little hound or little wolf just like names such as scott, andrew or george...nothing wrong with using it.
Gandalf is a given norse name was used by a norse king well before J.R. tolkien used the name for a wizard. I am not sure it would fall under intellectual property today. It means wand elf in old norse. To be safe i would probably use the old spelling Gandalfr. Their was also a poem written about a dwarf named Gandalf.
Hehe this is exactly why if there is a rule is has to exclude current popular fiction.
There's an excuse (legimate reason or not) for every name. I know a guy called Harry Potter. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be a stupid name to use as a Pantheon wizard.
You know if you used Gandalfr people would just think you're unimaginative and stuck an R on the end, right?
I don't mean to be combative and I understand your point, but I don't care if there was an ancient norse god called Hulk Hogan, it's still going to be a dumb and annoying thing to call your warrior,
I used to play a wizard named Saruman in EQ1. That was shitty and clearly lacking imagination, but I was young and I wouldn't blame anyone doing the same. We all think we have good ideas, but sometimes we end up realizing by ourselves it was dumb, but getting smacked on the head won't help the brain to grow up faster.
Picking Saruman and having the game say "Names from popular fiction are not allowed" is hardly being smacked on the head and, yeah, being corrected makes your brain grow faster. How else hehe?
Sure it's not a huge deal, but since it's no big deal and it's so easily avoided, why not avoid it?
Better to be corrected up front than regret it later on.
As someone who actually is an author, I will say that I've found I have a better time in games if I use a character intended for gaming, rather than one that has been written (even by me!). They can have their own adventures and stories within the game realm I'm placing them in without feeling sad that, for instance, the love interest I created for them is not there, or the race they are in a novel is not in the game, etc. I've brought the two names I tend to use as my mains in MMOs (Katryn or Katallina) through many games, but have never felt compelled to write an official work for either of them. Both have received fan fiction within the contexts they've taken on in games, but by carefully not putting them in a fixed world of my own creation, I've successfully left them fliexible enough to adapt to the gaming worlds I choose to explore.
But to be 100% clear, that's just my experience and as an author it's probably somewhat unique.
disposalist said:diableri said:I'd personally prefer that the effort and time to police names not be made beyond outright profanity.
Though that sort of thing is usually done by automatic systems (up-front) and volunteer GMs (in-game), so there's no effort from devs or 'proper' GMs.
Automatic systems can't arbitrate with players. I'd rather this time not be wasted for the number of people that are put out by it.
diableri said:disposalist said:diableri said:I'd personally prefer that the effort and time to police names not be made beyond outright profanity.
Though that sort of thing is usually done by automatic systems (up-front) and volunteer GMs (in-game), so there's no effort from devs or 'proper' GMs.
Automatic systems can't arbitrate with players. I'd rather this time not be wasted for the number of people that are put out by it.
Maybe you've not been on a role-playing server before. Lots of people are put out by it and lots of people are happy to volunteer to 'waste their time' being GMs and enforcing the rules. There is rarely any arbitration in a straight-forward naming policy just a need for some humans to sensibly apply it.
bandit said:Dont be a baby
Basically this. I like the idea of a profanity filter and a common word or dictionary filter, but however VR decides to do it is fine with me. I certainly wont pout if I run into Bumstab the rogue, and if there is a proper naming filter in place at character creation there should be no reason for a GM to get involved except in extreme situations.
Cynwulf said:Beowulf is a given name just like names such as max, dave, joe are... nothing wrong with using it.
Conan is a given irish name meaning little warrior or little hound or little wolf just like names such as scott, andrew or george...nothing wrong with using it.
Gandalf is a given norse name was used by a norse king well before J.R. tolkien used the name for a wizard. I am not sure it would fall under intellectual property today. It means wand elf in old norse. To be safe i would probably use the old spelling Gandalfr. Their was also a poem written about a dwarf named Gandalf.
max didn't defeat grendel
joe didn't defeat a dragon
scott didn't kill giant sea beasts with his bare hands while swimming in the ocean
beowulf is an intercutlturally recognizable name from a very famous and singular work of writing
just like normal people aren't named gandalf or voldemort or dovahkin or alucard or don quixote -
these are unique character names which originate from fiction, not from actual family ties/lines/lineages which have been passed down
beowulf is one such name as well.
It's fairly easy to tell the difference between a normal name and one belonging solely to a famous fictional character, honestly.
Not to be combative, but I personally feel the word immersion is incredibly overused and abused. I am not a proponent of prohibiting anything based only off of the concept of someones elses "immersion". If there are to be naming restrictions, perhaps they could be constrained to RP servers as it could be argued that it creates a more tangible negative impact (contrasted against a regular ruleset server). Related to names is a persons choice of gear colors. If it's one persons enjoyment to wear hot pink, I disagree with anothers need to put up artifical restrictions based on someone elses inability to get past it and start yelling "it ruins my immersion". Yeah, I also don't enjoy a hot pink wearing troll rogue named Tiny McStabby, but it would never distract me from what's important; the games ultimate functionality and playability.
Slightly off topic; in at least one old game, a long name was detrimental for purely mechanical reasons - it stuck out and was visible when hiding behind a tree in the pvp zones. More of a mechanical issue than anything else.
As far as naming goes, some suggested rules:
1. Character Creation must have a 'random name generator'
This is essential for people who are stuck for a name ... giving them a better option than 'Gandalfff' or "Arrraggornn"
2. Name verify upon creation should do a 2 step pass:
a) Check for discreet words/profanity
This means checking for the whole word versions of restricted words. Eg. names like "Ass" or "Adidas". Note that this only checks for whole words ... not words within. This is just a 'first' sanity pass to exclude obvioous words that should be censored - thus it can be done automatically.
b) Check for potential flagged words within the name, but only flag it, not restrict it!
This second pass, while automated, is not inteded to exclude names - since it only finds potential breaches, not definite ones! It should put up a red skull, or other symbol, to indicate that something is potentially amiss with a warning message: (perhaps more skulls for every word it is worried about!)
"This name potentially includes one of more restricted words. Should you choose to continue with the character generation using this name, be aware that your character's name has been put in a queue for verification by one of our support personnel. They will be manually checking it for breaches of naming policy at a later date. Should they find it contains any restricted words, whether intentionally or otherwise, that character may be subject to either (a) an enforced name change, or (b) character deletion at the discretion of the GM. The latter case is more likely in the case of an egregious attempt to sidestep the policy."
The second part (part (b), above) is to avoid the almost guranteed problem of false positives: whereby the name filter will refuse valid names because it thinks they contain a restricted word! Good examples would be:
and this ignore foreign words such as:
and my all time favourite is a TRUE event, whereby an entire UK town had ALL it's websites filtered out by, then then, AOL's profanity filter program!
That town was 'Scunthorpe'. Let us see if you can work it out ...
It would be better all round to flag any 'dubious' names up for later verifying by a GM. The player should be told it is flagged so they can decide whether to continue (if they are sure it is innocent) or perhaps change it if they are trying to beat the system ... eg "xxxarsexxx"
Evoras, still recalls a Guild called "My Little Pwny"...
The only time names even register for me is if they do something extremely well or extremely poorly while in a group.
But that may be an indictment of the modern MMO where names can be so offensive that I have learnt not to register names under any other circumstance.
Personally I feel that a naming policy should only be enforced if the name is offensive or on a RP server.
I would generally agree with Evoras - enough clever/witty things in that post that I would really hate not to agree under any circumstances.
I don't think we need any official person involved in screening names that a naming screen program allows past. Waiting until someone petitions the name as offensive probably works well enough without spending any official time on names that wind up not bothering anyone enough to get challenged.
This is not to say that an official person playing the game or monitoring chat can't step in if he or she notices a name that clearly violates the rules and there is nothing more urgent to do at the moment.
phamtrinli said:Cynwulf said:Beowulf is a given name just like names such as max, dave, joe are... nothing wrong with using it.
Conan is a given irish name meaning little warrior or little hound or little wolf just like names such as scott, andrew or george...nothing wrong with using it.
Gandalf is a given norse name was used by a norse king well before J.R. tolkien used the name for a wizard. I am not sure it would fall under intellectual property today. It means wand elf in old norse. To be safe i would probably use the old spelling Gandalfr. Their was also a poem written about a dwarf named Gandalf.
max didn't defeat grendel
joe didn't defeat a dragon
scott didn't kill giant sea beasts with his bare hands while swimming in the ocean
beowulf is an intercutlturally recognizable name from a very famous and singular work of writing
just like normal people aren't named gandalf or voldemort or dovahkin or alucard or don quixote -
these are unique character names which originate from fiction, not from actual family ties/lines/lineages which have been passed downbeowulf is one such name as well.
It's fairly easy to tell the difference between a normal name and one belonging solely to a famous fictional character, honestly.
Beowulf, Gandalf and Conan did not originate from fiction! Fiction authors used names which were used in our past for their characters. Conan is still used today as a name. There is nothing unique about these names other then some fiction writer decided to use a name from our past in a story, poem etc.
Ragnar is another name written in a saga so its off limits too? Their were Ragnars before and after this saga was written.
I swear, it seems like back in the original EQ days, names had to be manually approved. Sometimes it would take a few minutes for a name to go through. I always thought a GM was getting a popup asking them to approve the name.