Even after the Kunark expansion, the FBSS was a profound benefit, especially to developing melee and/or tank characters looking for what were not yet known as pugs. And, even after Kunark, the farm was [by convention] a waiting line. There was zero possibility (without being a complete knob) of "breaking up" the farm for the FBSS. Zero. You had 15+ hours (sometimes over 30) or you didn't get one. Maybe later people sold them, but during Kunark they weren't on the market. An extreme example, but decidedly exemplary of the issue. Travel to LGuk (and to therefore Caravan) was irrelevant. You could get by without the FBSS, but your game life was decidedly poorer for it.
I might as well preempt likely responses:
I am not remotely interested in what is statutorily possible, in terms of minimum session duration to progress. I am interested in the intentional design balance that dictates quality of life with respect to progression. If a player can reasonably progress at a rewarding and reinforcing pace, as well as maintain pace with the release of new content, then they have sustainable quality of life; if not, then the game design is balanced against them. That might be a reasonable design choice, but it should be a design choice made known to them before they find the game unrewarding. I have [substantially] short-handed the topic to two reasonably-relatable user groups: the people who played EQ back in the days when it was the pinnacle of MMO design, and those same people in 2018 (or whenever the game releases).
Other FAQ excerpts you might find beneficial:
10.1 Open world MMOs sometimes suffer from too much competition for resources, overcrowding, and other similar issues. For example, what plans are there to mitigate one guild from preventing others from progressing?
By creating plenty of content, a large world, not allowing shards to become overpopulated (for example, by quickly launching new shards), possible systems and rules within specific shards, and if things get out of hand to involve Customer Service (GMs). Above all, we want to use positive reinforcement by making sure that there is enough content and an epic enough world to minimize these issues.
We also want to make sure there will be plenty of great items and choices for adventuring all over the world – for example, we want to avoid there being just a single sought-after item for a specific class at a specific level. Similarly powerful and valued items will be available elsewhere in the world.
20.2 Without instancing, are you concerned about overcrowding and/or too much competition for resources and content?
Overcrowding and too much competition are indeed problems that have plagued both MMOs with and without instancing. If there are not enough players around, it can be hard to group and socialize. But if there are too many people around, the world feels crowded and people have to wait for encounters or spawns, or even compete for them. Our answer to this issue is twofold: first, primarily during the later phases of beta, we will determine how many people online at one time in our game world feels right -- neither under-crowded nor overcrowded. Second, if and when a server’s/shard’s population grows too large, we will launch a new shard with incentives for players to spread out. And with our harnessing of cloud hosted servers/shards, this is actually something we can do dynamically, easily, and quickly.
While these aren't directly associated with playtime, they should at the very least alleviate any concern you might have of reliving a 'Life is poor without FBSS which requires 15+ hours of playtime' kind of scenario. This doesn't mean that there won't be items that are highly desirable, but rather that the idea of "too much competition for single game-changing items" is something that is being considered from both a design and server population management perspective.
Angrykiz said:Instead of camping the FBSS you could just slowly farm the plats to buy it on your own time.
This works generally for items up to a certain importance, but you get cases where a resource gets completely locked down by a single small group of players. They grossly inflate the price knowing that they are the gatekeepers for the item. Hopefully, there will be enough randomization of drops, spawn times and locations that simply knowing the last spawn time won't be enough to let you prevent others from acquiring critical epic or key components. Otherwise, the poor casual player will spend their gaming lifetime trying to farm up the 500K to buy whatever piece they are missing for their quest.
While I can't no life it like I did in the past, I can still do way more time than the average player. I usually work 9-5 or 9-6 and get home at 5:30ish or 6:00ish. I can usually get on right when I get home and play until around 12-1pm. Soo I am looking around 6 hours a day on weekdays if I feel like getting one character maxed. And then on the weekends, assuming I have nothing to do, I can play 12-20 hours if I wanted for a certain period of time. Usually once I get one character maxed my play time decreases quiet a bit, unless I feel an alt craving.
Regardless, I plan on setting a time period of a week or so aside to just game and get my gaming fix. So I guess it depends on how you want to manage your time in the beginning. I am thinking way ahead of accumlating vacation time and stuff for the release to just play. Sadly, I am not an efficient player as I spend half of my time screwing around in cities.
What killed me in EQ was that it wasn't that hard to level. It was hard to get a camp and to get a good group going without someone dropping in a hour and then getting a replacement only for them to die while finding the camp, and then going to find him..etc. Sometimes it took 2-3 hours of looking for a group to get a group..and then another hour fighting for a camp. If EQ somehow cut that in half...then leveling in EQ would of been sooooo much faster.
Sadly, I am not going in with a static group of friends, although my brother seems interested, so I have to rely on others, like I did in EQ, to progress. So I will be at the threshhold of playing with the 2 hour a day people and then progressing fast enough to where I will probably see only static hardcore groups and not being able to find a group anyways. SO alts is probably where I will go in terms of time efficiency.
As for the game itself, if it can make me forget about leveling and truly immerse me into the world of pantheon, then I probably wouldn't care about leveling to being with. Sadly I am one of those people that feel determined to do everything I can in the game and complete everything within my character's capability. So I hope VR doesn't feel rushed to push content out because I personally like to complete an expansion with a character and then either make and alt or hang out around noob zones and enjoy the world more knowing that I did everything I can on my character and just socialize and do player driven events....or you know...start an alt.
phahmaqu said:I'm not interested in all of the discussions of days or hours to level cap. That's all speculation on detail. My question is foundational.
VR have talked a lot about the people who played Everquest, people who miss the "old school" and "hardcore" MMOs. That was a long time ago, and those people are at least in their mid-30s, if not much older*. Few of us have lives at all similar to the lives we had then. So here's my question to VR:
Is PRF being designed for the time the people who played back then had available back then? Or is it being designed for the time the people who played back then have available now?
Either is legitimate, but it's a vital design choice. I can't spend 12 hours in LGuk waiting in line to join the group camping the Frenzied spawn for 3 hours for my turn at a FBSS. If PRF is designed for people to spend long sessions in order to accomplish large numbers of meaningful things, it precludes what I suspect is the majority of the old school playerbase. Again, that's a legitimate choice, but it has to be an intentional choice.
Is PRF for those of us who played the "old school", "hardcore" MMOs? Or is it for those who are now like we were then?
* I am preemptively deaf to the 20-something who claims to have been a hardcore Everquest player. Don't bother.
Excellent, excellent post. This post dovetails perfectly with my main concern about Pantheon: folks are mis-remembering what made EQ1 great.
Like you said, anyone who spent a full day grinding in LGuk for a FBSS, or in some Luclin zone for a shard to complete their Vex Thall key is most certainly not going to be able to commit that same amount of time to a game in their 30s or 40s. We certainly aren't going to be able to spend the time "waiting in line" for a spot in a group.
This is the "challenge" everyone reminisces about when they talk about EQ1. How long it took to get that FBSS, so it "really meant something" when you got it. Never mind the fact that none of us can sit in a zone for hours staring at a rock waiting for a chance to have a chance to /ran for it, we want it to "be a real accomplishment!".
They also seem to think that "slow combat where I can chat with my group mates" is going to make this game amazing.
So let's summarize what Pantheon needs to be to satisfy these people:
1. accomplishments that "really mean something".
2. slow combat that allows for plenty of chatting
3. since nobody under 30 will play such a slow game, and nobody over 30 can spend 10+ hours per day camping an item, the required play sessions must be available in 1 hour increments...or less
How, exactly, is such a game going to work?
nscheffel said:phahmaqu said:I'm not interested in all of the discussions of days or hours to level cap. That's all speculation on detail. My question is foundational.
VR have talked a lot about the people who played Everquest, people who miss the "old school" and "hardcore" MMOs. That was a long time ago, and those people are at least in their mid-30s, if not much older*. Few of us have lives at all similar to the lives we had then. So here's my question to VR:
Is PRF being designed for the time the people who played back then had available back then? Or is it being designed for the time the people who played back then have available now?
Either is legitimate, but it's a vital design choice. I can't spend 12 hours in LGuk waiting in line to join the group camping the Frenzied spawn for 3 hours for my turn at a FBSS. If PRF is designed for people to spend long sessions in order to accomplish large numbers of meaningful things, it precludes what I suspect is the majority of the old school playerbase. Again, that's a legitimate choice, but it has to be an intentional choice.
Is PRF for those of us who played the "old school", "hardcore" MMOs? Or is it for those who are now like we were then?
* I am preemptively deaf to the 20-something who claims to have been a hardcore Everquest player. Don't bother.
Excellent, excellent post. This post dovetails perfectly with my main concern about Pantheon: folks are mis-remembering what made EQ1 great.
Like you said, anyone who spent a full day grinding in LGuk for a FBSS, or in some Luclin zone for a shard to complete their Vex Thall key is most certainly not going to be able to commit that same amount of time to a game in their 30s or 40s. We certainly aren't going to be able to spend the time "waiting in line" for a spot in a group.
This is the "challenge" everyone reminisces about when they talk about EQ1. How long it took to get that FBSS, so it "really meant something" when you got it. Never mind the fact that none of us can sit in a zone for hours staring at a rock waiting for a chance to have a chance to /ran for it, we want it to "be a real accomplishment!".
They also seem to think that "slow combat where I can chat with my group mates" is going to make this game amazing.
So let's summarize what Pantheon needs to be to satisfy these people:
1. accomplishments that "really mean something".
2. slow combat that allows for plenty of chatting
3. since nobody under 30 will play such a slow game, and nobody over 30 can spend 10+ hours per day camping an item, the required play sessions must be available in 1 hour increments...or less
How, exactly, is such a game going to work?
VR plans on evolving the genre with Pantheon. Everquest is definitely a spiritual successor but I think it's important to realize that not every aspect of that game is going to migrate over. I have spent countless hours dissecting the FAQ and every nugget of knowledge I could possibly find on this forum or elsewhere and am 100% convinced that Pantheon will be the greatest MMO available for the next decade plus. There is no black and white answer to the question that has been proposed in this thread. Pantheon is being designed from the ground up to leverage the important values that resonated with players from early MMO's while minimizing the painpoints. I understand the argument that some of the painpoints are what actually felt magical ... things like a meaningful death penalty, real risk vs reward, the time commitment required for memorable achievements, and the downtime associated with critical social interaction.
If there is any company in the world who understands the value (and cost) of all those things it's VR and I would strongly recommend for people searching for further validation of that to continue digging deeper if they have yet to find exactly what they are looking for. It's going to be awhile before all of the features, mechanics and systems that are designed to help realize these goals are completely fleshed out but in the meantime, the path to success has been detailed quite vividly. The vision is there ... embrace it. Let your imagination flow and whatever you can think of, remember that there are true masterminds that commit their heart and soul to this project and they are as qualified as they come when it comes to bringing the magical vision that has been shared with us to life.
nscheffel said:3. since nobody under 30 will play such a slow game, and nobody over 30 can spend 10+ hours per day camping an item, the required play sessions must be available in 1 hour increments...or less
How, exactly, is such a game going to work?
I think you are wrong. There will be a ton of under-30's that play PRF. You seem to think that everyone under 30 is a twitch head, when in reality they have never even been exposed to a game like PRF, so we have no idea how they will react. Considering their fascination with social media and online connectedness I would think that many would embrace the PRF gaming style.
I also think you are wrong that sessions should be designed to be 1 hour or less. I am in my 30's, have a wife, kids, career, and a social life, and I know I can find 2-3 hours a few nights a week. You are right, I wont be able to do a 10 hour camp session whenever I want, but I might be able to do one every few months when the stars align and my family and friends dont need my attention.
I agree with oneADseven, Pantheon may pay its respects to EQ and other games, but it is far more than a copy or a collage. It is going to expand and redefine the genre.
It's always a tricky subject. Some will feel excluded and angry to be excluded if there's content that *requires* long continuous periods of time to obtain, but, as long as VR avoid putting epic or best-in-class items behind those kind of requirements, then why shouldn't *some* prestige items reward that kind of endurance effort.
I recently played quite a few months of EQ Project 1999 and got most of the way through the epic quest for Monks. There were two or three marathon sessions in Lower Guk - each many hours long. After having reached the level of power to be able to tackle it, organised my life around the time sink one weekend, researched other people's experiences, set up spreadsheets to record spawning cycles, etc, etc and then failing a couple of times (running out of time once, dying and losing the camp during corpse recovery) the feeling of accomplishment was just awesome.
I still have memories of getting my cleric epic sprinkler in EQ nearly 20 years ago.
Having said that, I understand the annoyance of items like that requiring undersireable efforts because one thing *I* dislike is the way some things in EQ basically require an entire guild to complete. Back in the day I *did* have a big guild and I'm not against guilds, but the way it sometimes was in EQ was painful. With guilds attempting to block other guilds' progression, even sabotaging raids, etc, the stakes would get so high that the whole thing became more stressful than a job. To *have* to go through that in order to do anything of worth in the end-game was a massive turn-off for me. I stopped playing P1999EQ when I got to that stage.
So, yeah, huge time sinks should not be 'necessary'. I would like to see some quests in the game that require them - I don't believe that everyone should be able to do everything - but whatever is locked behind them should be prestige items - nothing that would feel 'essential'.
Xbachs said:nscheffel said:3. since nobody under 30 will play such a slow game, and nobody over 30 can spend 10+ hours per day camping an item, the required play sessions must be available in 1 hour increments...or less
How, exactly, is such a game going to work?
I think you are wrong. There will be a ton of under-30's that play PRF. You seem to think that everyone under 30 is a twitch head, when in reality they have never even been exposed to a game like PRF, so we have no idea how they will react. Considering their fascination with social media and online connectedness I would think that many would embrace the PRF gaming style.
I also think you are wrong that sessions should be designed to be 1 hour or less. I am in my 30's, have a wife, kids, career, and a social life, and I know I can find 2-3 hours a few nights a week. You are right, I wont be able to do a 10 hour camp session whenever I want, but I might be able to do one every few months when the stars align and my family and friends dont need my attention.
I agree with oneADseven, Pantheon may pay its respects to EQ and other games, but it is far more than a copy or a collage. It is going to expand and redefine the genre.
I agree with you 100%. I even expect to play the game in precisely the same way you do.
However, that game isn't what many folks are clamoring for, or expecting.
Obviously time will tell, and I hope your (and my) hopes for Pantheon come to fruition. After all, I didn't buy my way into Alpha because I think they will mess it up.
nscheffel said:I agree with you 100%. I even expect to play the game in precisely the same way you do.
However, that game isn't what many folks are clamoring for, or expecting.
Obviously time will tell, and I hope your (and my) hopes for Pantheon come to fruition. After all, I didn't buy my way into Alpha because I think they will mess it up.
It's no secret they don't care to cast the widest net and are instead targeting a niche audience.
To quote Brad:
If you go down the long road of eliminating anything that defines the MMO genre because it might be something some player doesn't care for, where do you end up? Where does that road eventually lead? Well, I think we can already see quite far down that road -- check out the mega-expensive but likewise mega-watered down MMOs that have come out post-WoW. After all of that time, money, and effort the result has been MMOs that really aren't MMOs anymore. Some people don't like to have to interact with a community, so remove the community. Some don't like to have to find others to group with, so remove grouping. Some people don't have the time to go after and earn powerful yet rare items, so make it either so all items are easily obtainable or make it so the rare ones can also be purchased for real money. Some people don't want to have to play months or even years to play through a character to maximum level, so decrease this time and effort and make the game a quick rush to the 'end game', allowing people to bypass most of the content by jumping to whatever that 'end game' is supposed to be, or even perceived to be.
The result has been games that lack the depth and game elements that make MMOs 'sticky'. MMOs and their predecessors, text MUDs of the 80s and 90s, long ago identified gameplay elements, mechanics, content, etc. that compelled their players to stick around. Real friendships were formed. Shared experiences occurred. People worked long and hard building up their characters and the items he or she possessed. A lot of pride and real value was perceived by players and therefore they kept playing months or even years. The result were vibrant and evolving virtual worlds people would subscribe to playing.
So I'd figure that it will be balanced more toward the "hardcore" than the casual, but a casual player will likely have opportunity to complete any part of the game with long term dedication. There might be a few camps for a FBSS-esque item in the game that might take hours or have long waitlists but with perseverance anyone can manage to obtain the prize, casual or otherwise.
Sorte said:Check out the FAQ :)
Somebody (prolly Bazgrim) will soon link the right place in the FAQ, but I remember they said that if you got two hours you will be able to achieve meaningfull progression.
-sorte.
I find that Bazgrim doesn't usually post in topics where people say he'll probably post. Just sayin'
:)
Iksar said:It's no secret they don't care to cast the widest net and are instead targeting a niche audience.
Here is another quote from Brad to consider:
"But our target audience is bigger than that group. We are casting a broader net, so to speak. We are absolutely convinced that a large group of younger players will end up loving the game, assuming we can reach them, show them something that seems fun and interesting, provide answers to their questions no matter how simple or sophisticated. These people love Dark Souls, Call of Duty, the better MOBAs, the survival games -- they crave both challenge and risk and reward, but they also crave experiencing these things together with other real people. There's just something that's part of human nature where if you experience something exciting, dangerous, tension-filled, etc. and you experience that with other actual people, those events have a greater impact and create much deeper and longer lasting memories. So our challenge (the dev team and the community's) is to figure out how to reach these groups and explain to them what they're looking at, why things work the way they work, and how much FUN these games can be."
I don't mean to imply that VR isn't targeting a niche, but rather that the net is probably a bit wider than most people realize. I am completely on board with the idea that a lot of people will love Pantheon if they just give it a chance. I don't think "hardcore" or "casual" are the words we should be looking at. I think VR is looking to attract people who appreciate challenge / risk vs reward / progression and are viewing the social experience of cooperative play as the "magic" that ties everything together and ultimately defines the design philosophy that an MMO world should be built around.
kelenin said:Sorte said:Check out the FAQ :)
Somebody (prolly Bazgrim) will soon link the right place in the FAQ, but I remember they said that if you got two hours you will be able to achieve meaningfull progression.
-sorte.
I find that Bazgrim doesn't usually post in topics where people say he'll probably post. Just sayin'
:)
Sorte said:kelenin said:Sorte said:Check out the FAQ :)
Somebody (prolly Bazgrim) will soon link the right place in the FAQ, but I remember they said that if you got two hours you will be able to achieve meaningfull progression.
-sorte.
I find that Bazgrim doesn't usually post in topics where people say he'll probably post. Just sayin'
:)
My apologies to Bazgrim then, for ruining this topic for him.
-sorte.
Lol that's not true. I just usually don't read the forums much on the weekends. And by the time I found this one, 187 had already posted all the relevant excerpts from the FAQ. As far as I'm concerned, if one reads it thoroughly and objectively, the FAQ can sufficiently answer all the questions/concerns in this thread.
Edit: also, when the OP says they are "preemptively deaf" to certain people/opinions, that's a good sign that I shouldn't waste my time.
i did not read the whole thread but i'm getting really annoyed by the people like OP who think those who played everquest 1 can't play pantheon the same way they did with everquest.
mind you OP, on everquest you had kids, students, adults with jobs and children, elders, they were all playing everquest and were all doing great, of course for them it could take a year or more to be max level ,but they did not care, everquest was about the trip not the final destination, the fun was everywhere, at every stage of the game, at every level.
what do you think OP ? i played everquest at 20 and i'm 39 now, i have a lot of freetime to enjoy pantheon the hardcore way, and yes i have a job thank you.
Plus, there will have new gamers who never played a mmorpg hardcore and i'm sure they will enjoy pantheon greatly.
so to summ it up, i no agree at all with you and yes Pantheon MUST stay true to everquest spirit, hardcore all the way, asking time A LOT of time to achieve max level, discovering the world, getting the best gears, beating the baddest ennemies, etc etc.
coeurdelion said:i did not read the whole thread but i'm getting really annoyed by the people like OP who think those who played everquest 1 can't play pantheon the same way they did with everquest.
mind you OP, on everquest you had kids, students, adults with jobs and children, elders, they were all playing everquest and were all doing great, of course for them it could take a year or more to be max level ,but they did not care, everquest was about the trip not the final destination, the fun was everywhere, at every stage of the game, at every level.
what do you think OP ? i played everquest at 20 and i'm 39 now, i have a lot of freetime to enjoy pantheon the hardcore way, and yes i have a job thank you.
Plus, there will have new gamers who never played a mmorpg hardcore and i'm sure they will enjoy pantheon greatly.
so to summ it up, i no agree at all with you and yes Pantheon MUST stay true to everquest spirit, hardcore all the way, asking time A LOT of time to achieve max level, discovering the world, getting the best gears, beating the baddest ennemies, etc etc.
I think this is a good comment.
There were many "older" people who played EQ back in 1999. People that had jobs, kids, other hobbies, etc. So the idea that only people without those things will enjoy a game like that is foolish.
I get what VR is trying to say, but they have to walk a fine line. When they say "people have kids, jobs, etc." now that kind of says the only people that will play Pantheon are old EQ players. I think that's a slippery slope. Don't worry about that stuff and just make a challenging game and the rest will take care of itself.
phahmaqu said:Is PRF being designed for the time the people who played back then had available back then? Or is it being designed for the time the people who played back then have available now?
Either is legitimate, but it's a vital design choice. I can't spend 12 hours in LGuk waiting in line to join the group camping the Frenzied spawn for 3 hours for my turn at a FBSS.
i havent played EQ in 2001, I have started my MMO "career" playing the old runescape around 2003. and even then I couldnt spend 12 hours at a game. (more like 2-3 hours top a night on dial up interrupted by land phone calls...)
but, i think that if you cant spend 12 hours in LGUK then dont, people who can will spend, there should be enough content to progress without the spawn camping, you will just not have "the best" gear etc.
if the game will be "balanced" only for people who can spend 1 hour per play session, it will go the road of destiny2, which is a sad road, barren and empty after three months.
back in our WOW vanilla guild, we had disabled people, people with night shifts or people with seasonal vocations who could play hours and hours in the game, and if the game was "balanced" around 1 hour per play session they would play a different game, these people are part of the community.
Let's try to focus more on game design and less on criticizing other people that are commenting.
There are two entirely separate issues here.
One is how much time it will take in general to progress. Hopefully a LOT. Do any of us want an EQ2/Rift style game where you can blast through levels and content and get to the boring repetitive part of the game in a few days? I really doubt it - even those with far less time to play than back in the day would be horrified if Pantheon turned into this.
The other issue, and the focus of the OP if I read the post correctly, is how much time you need to spend in one session to move ahead. I agree that we shouldn't really be bothered if someone else with more time and no life progresses faster. But if we are simply blocked from a major area of content or a really important item because that takes 6 hours to get and if you drop out you have to start the 6 hours all over again - THAT is a problem for many of us who lack the ability or will to drop everything else for 6 more or less uninterruipted hours.
IMO long and difficult raids/groups should be limited to endgame content for bored level-caps where the challenge is part of the fun and they don't really NEED whatever the reward is. Or perhaps earlier on for bored non level-caps where again the challenge is the thing and not spending the 6 hours won't block other people from anything very important.
I very much do not want access to an interesting zone to be gated behind a 4 or 6 hour dungeon run. Note that I am talking about a run where you need to do it in one sitting. If I can do it in 3 different groups 2 hours at a time I still don't like that gate but at least most of us can find 2 hours in a row a few times and get it done.
One of my worst memories in game design was the Trials of Atlantis expansion in Dark Ages of Camelot. So bad that they had to come out with DAOC classic going back to before the expansion. Endless raids needed to advance and some of them you could not even go afk for large parts of the raid (no autofollow for much of the swimming and diving).
For reference we have talked about this a lot in this previous thread. Lots of opinions and I think the referenced faq was edited to reflect VRs stance.
My personal concern when it comes to play time of other people is level disparity between friends in regard to grouping. I know it has been stated that there will be some kind of system to allow people of varying levels to group together but what if friend A can play 10 hrs/day and friend B can only play 2 hrs/day, until these players reach end game, they realistically won't be able to adventure (discover new/higher level areas) together or be amongst the first to overcome new challenges... regardless of their dedication to the game. People who aren't familiar with EQ's leveling system (or perhaps forgot about things like hell levels and actually losing levels or 4 hour long corpse runs when you only have 2 hours to play) may say that level disparity is the nature of MMOs... but if done poorly it could cripple the playerbase. Please do a good job VR haha!
Someone also mentioned in this post that the game will be fun as long as it is not played competitively... I completely understand where the statement was coming from, but competition is one of the definitions of a "game". I'm not saying that you need to be server first to enjoy a game but striving to be better than (or at least equal to) others within your same class/role should definitely be somewhere on your radar. You should take pride in being able to manage your resources well or mitigate damage better than other tanks or even do a lot of damage. I suppose that is a personal opinion too since some people do not like competition.
I'm hoping something is implemented to help mitigate the god-awful countless hours of LFG if you weren't a healer or able to solo well because people aren't going to have time for that. i.e. 4 hours of daily contiguous playtime is probably going to be a generous duration for those of us working and/or with families - if 1 hour is spent LFG, I think a safe estimate would be another hour to gather the group and get to your location leaving you with 2 hours of playtime... so if you only have 2 hours of contiguous time to play, then are you better off playing a class that can solo or heal (for instant groups)?