Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

• Kaen

  

  • 258 posts
   

  February 3, 2018 3:45 PM PST

  Celandor said:

  I see a fundamental difference here.

  Vertical progression consists of ways to make your character more powerful - more levels, more gear, higher stats.  I think the downside of vertical progression is that it eventually trivializes much of a game's content.

  Horizontal is all about giving you new outlets for the abilities you already have or let to you grow in new directions with your character.

  If your primary goal is to simply get more HP/AC/STR/DMG, then you're only looking at one dimension, regardless of what you call the stat improvements.

  I understand that some players only want to grow vertically and see everything else as a waste of time.  If that describes you, then maybe you're just not interested in horizontal progression.  However, I'd be surprised if you weren't keenly interested in something like contested regions or dynamic AI driven changes to the environment which required players to respond to defend settlements, etc...

  The point of a good MMORPG is that it has horizontal breadth of activities to attract many types of players and not merely a race for end game content.

  
  
  First statement - I completely agree. I hate level-cap extensions exactly for this reason. Old conent is trivialized, old gear is trivialized. And with that in mind, that's why I created this post in the first place. It's an alternative that--while the character does acquire permanent enhancements--allows for "old" content to remain very relevant if the system itself is balanced. Lots of work for small but worthwhile gains. Enough to keep people interested, not so much that it causes imbalanaces. If continued/left unchecked, this system would surely cause imbalances, which is probably what happened with EQ's AA system.
  
  Second statement - I would be interested in those things, but only if I'm gaining something. Though I'm not sure what you mean by contested regions. Do you mean there are mobs that people compete for, or players competing with each other through PvP? The first would require loot drops, faction, or some other sort of benefit or enhancement. Faction, of course, leads to other benefits. For example, access to certain areas, access to exclusive merchants, etc... As for PvP, unless there is some benefit, like temporary buffs or competing for mobs for loot (through PvP), it would probably remain relatively empty most of the time, with maybe some people enjoying it occasionally. The latter is what I remember from Warhammer when it first came out. I was extremely disappointed in the contested regions because there wasn't much point in going out there except "fun", which it turns out wasn't fun for very long.
  
  In the end, I'm mostly only concerned with improving my character in one way or another. I don't mind if it's indirect. I can faction grind for months if I have to, like farming Dark Iron Dwarf faction in WoW so that I could eventually make Fire Resist gear for my guild for MC back during the early days of Vanilla. One might consider faction to be relatively horizontal, but in the end I'm gaining the ability to make gear to aid my comrades in progression. Or I'm gaining exclusive access to certain merchants, which should imo give me some benefit--being able to purcase weight reduction bags, for example. The better to farm loots with :P. 
  
  My point isn't that I dislike any sort of horizontal progression. I can endure near-endless horizontal progression if it is tied to vertical progression. But if I have to work hard for months in order to buy a boat, and the only benefit of a boat is that I get to kinda float around for a bit and tell people "Hey! I'm a guy with a boat!" then I probably won't spend my time trying to acquire a boat lol.

• oneADseven

  

  • 3237 posts
   

  February 3, 2018 7:37 PM PST

  If I ever a acquire a boat in an MMO, the first thing I will do is create a rap video titled Boats 'N Hoes.  I'm semi-serious about that.  In all seriousness though, a lot of what you are saying resonates with me Kaen.  I feel tangible vertical progression is very important in an MMO, even if I have to endure near-endless horizontal progression to get there.  In fact, I would argue that my favorite kind of vertical progression is that which is gated behind a mountain of horizontal progression.  The "Oubliette of Descension" concept I shared on page 3 of the "Ideas" thread is designed to do exactly that.  Would love to hear some honest feedback from you about that idea if you get the chance to read over it.

• Kaen

  

  • 258 posts
   

  February 3, 2018 7:44 PM PST

  oneADseven said:

  If I ever a acquire a boat in an MMO, the first thing I will do is create a rap video titled Boats 'N Hoes.  I'm semi-serious about that.  In all seriousness though, a lot of what you are saying resonates with me Kaen.  I feel tangible vertical progression is very important in an MMO, even if I have to endure near-endless horizontal progression to get there.  In fact, I would argue that my favorite kind of vertical progression is that which is gated behind a mountain of horizontal progression.  The "Oubliette of Descension" concept I shared on page 3 of the "Ideas" thread is designed to do exactly that.  Would love to hear some honest feedback from you about that idea if you get the chance to read over it.

  
  
  Agreed. I could do horizontal progression for months and months IF at the end of it it helps my vertical progression. :P
  
  Cool, I'll check it out right now.