This is a tangent to the idea of players affecting the world, but I always had the idea that physical assets in the game could change over time, such as a tree could be sappling to a full grown tree to falling over and decaying and cycling over again. Thse cycles could be months between changes and vary between all assets and some may not recycle some may end.
Cliff faces could block a trail, rivers could move, new ways to navigate the area could be opened or closed.
The way I see this is a system similar to seasons, but more diverse. Allowing you to return to an area and see an overgrown forest from when you were first there a year ot two ago. Or town could have grown or decayed over time. The possibilities are up to your imagination, but they could be managable with fixed assests on a cycle or timer.
modesty said:This is a tangent to the idea of players affecting the world, but I always had the idea that physical assets in the game could change over time, such as a tree could be sappling to a full grown tree to falling over and decaying and cycling over again. Thse cycles could be months between changes and vary between all assets and some may not recycle some may end.
Cliff faces could block a trail, rivers could move, new ways to navigate the area could be opened or closed.
The way I see this is a system similar to seasons, but more diverse. Allowing you to return to an area and see an overgrown forest from when you were first there a year ot two ago. Or town could have grown or decayed over time. The possibilities are up to your imagination, but they could be managable with fixed assests on a cycle or timer.
Another interesting thing is that I am fairly certain that hte code is in place to do this because there are areas that are different from the surrounding areas. For instance, there are areas that when you walk into them without the proper "gear" the environment itself will kill you. This is shown in a couple of the videos with the area that has the purple rotating rings. SO, theoretically, they could have an area with the event system in place and just give it a much longer timer. Not sure how I would feel about individual vegetation, outside of weeather and seasonal effects, but larger things, like a small encampment or set of ruins would certainly be interesting.
One thing I would like to see is events where one power gets ruined by another in the game, so one area gets weaker while another gets stronger. The control of resources like mines, forests, and mountain passes would all be reasons for groups to go to war. Planned changes over time just make the world feel alive.
The endless debate over how you can throw "persistant world" elements into a MMO where what characters do can make a permanent difference, but without destroying the experience for other characters.
I know the idea of things changing in the world regardless of player action is not quite the same thing but its all related.
Areas have been known to change over time in many MMOs. Due to player action (introduction of flying transportation or new races but only after the players on a server accomplished various tasks) or simply developer whim (changes in zone level, mob composition, towns or the like).
Pantheon can certainly have changes like that as it goes along so long as it leaves enough for brand new characters to do in areas not "spoiled" like that.
What I don't know is what resources it would take to have different characters see different things in the same area depending on what they personally have done or their levels. But since that would complicate having anyone group in areas with such features I am not sure its a good idea in a group-focused game, outside of limited story-line use.
dorotea said:What I don't know is what resources it would take to have different characters see different things in the same area depending on what they personally have done or their levels. But since that would complicate having anyone group in areas with such features I am not sure its a good idea in a group-focused game, outside of limited story-line use.
In my experience, if a game developer wants to support a dynamic world, they have to first build the world with that in mind. Let's take a simple example of wanting to have changing seasons (fall, winter, spring, summer). In each season the terrain/weather reflects the season, and the zone population shifts in response to the weather.
So to make this work:
All of this is totally doable (and would be really cool to see), but it's stuff that has to be thought through when the game is first designed and the underlying code support needs to be there, even if it's not used right away, and it's definitely not trivial. I think that's why so few games have really been able to do this yet.
Anyway if it's not clear, I'd love to see a dynamic world in Pantheon - in all the ways we've talked about. But even if it can't get all the way there, hopefully there will be some things that can give the illusion of a dynamic world, moreso than past games.
dorotea said:I agree Nephele, in terms of things like climate or seasons. I was focusing more on much more limited things like a group of level 20 trolls setting up a camp in an area that had level 2 wolves at release.
I still think you need some code support to do even that, unless you just want to do it at a server downtime. To make it happen dynamically and immersively (at least, to me), what would need to happen is:
1) Some "event" occurs that drives the wolves away and stops them from spawning (maybe the pack leader spawns and once he's killed, that's it)
2) The area lays "fallow" for a time
3) Trolls start spawning, first just one or two roamers
4) After a bit, the troll lair/camp appears and it's full-on troll time.
5) Eventually, Momma Troll spawns, and once she's killed, the trolls diminish and go away.
6) The area lays "fallow" for a time
7) Randomly (or semi-randomly) the system determines what the next "threat" will be.
Anyway we're in agreement, I just feel like if a game is really going to do this, it shouldn't require developer interaction after the fact to make it work. Set it up so that it's procedural/automated from the get go.
Nephele said:dorotea said:I agree Nephele, in terms of things like climate or seasons. I was focusing more on much more limited things like a group of level 20 trolls setting up a camp in an area that had level 2 wolves at release.
I still think you need some code support to do even that, unless you just want to do it at a server downtime. To make it happen dynamically and immersively (at least, to me), what would need to happen is:
1) Some "event" occurs that drives the wolves away and stops them from spawning (maybe the pack leader spawns and once he's killed, that's it)
2) The area lays "fallow" for a time
3) Trolls start spawning, first just one or two roamers
4) After a bit, the troll lair/camp appears and it's full-on troll time.
5) Eventually, Momma Troll spawns, and once she's killed, the trolls diminish and go away.
6) The area lays "fallow" for a time
7) Randomly (or semi-randomly) the system determines what the next "threat" will be.
Anyway we're in agreement, I just feel like if a game is really going to do this, it shouldn't require developer interaction after the fact to make it work. Set it up so that it's procedural/automated from the get go.
From what I gather based on the Youtube videos, the procedural stuff is already in place. They've specifically mentiobed procedural code with regards to weather and other effects like fog.
Trolls gotta eat, too! I'm really enjoying the ideas with regard to how much dynamic activity could be present in a persistent open world
Thinking it through, a lot could happen just expanding on the sophisticated AI they have already begun to implement in game
For instance, among the many sorts of mobs we should encounter, we would expect them to fall into certain groups in terms of why they would wander about, affecting the world
Predators and Prey - Among the animals in any area, all must eat (foraging and hunting,) rest and react to higher forms of life traversing the area as well as time of day and the weather
---If your goal is to hunt some rabbits, you should be competing with other hunters of rabbits and be prepared for how they may react to your presence (they may run or they may attack,) and you should probably not go when its raining or at night, though some beasts would be nocturnal or unaffected by inclement weather, changing the conditions in that area... Animals should probably hunt, eat and lounge about, in packs or solo depending on type
Transient Savages - Perhaps groups of mobs could periodically move down from the next level area or zone to engage in hunting or foraging, setting up camps at night and gathering food during the day, moving about the map, taking shelter from the weather, etc...
---Perhaps a new group would enter the area occasionally, though they would keep their distance from groups already there... As the number of higher level groups of mobs became uncomfortably high, groups of on-level adventurers would have to join together to either run them off or wipe them out
Organized Hunting/Gathering Parties - On maps occupied by enemy soldiers, those guys gotta eat and replenish supplies just like anyone else, plus they would have regular patrols to keep interlopers like yourself out
---The roads would be patrolled by soldiers, but the surrounding wilderness should still be stalked by hunting parties and other groups engaged in cutting down trees, foraging for berries and nuts, etc... They would all be carrying some means to signal their friends on guard patrols should they be interrupted or attacked by a roaming party of adventurers, of course, so you should probably look for the bad guy with the horn and be wary of being spotted by a scout
Defense Squads - In a reversal of the idea of lower level players teaming up to run off the interloping Transient Savages, maybe larger and more powerfully armed groups of organized enemies would form up when a sufficient number of scouts in the area reported on pesky adventuring groups down by the river or off in the forest, and would head out to investigate, charged with protecting their supply lines and ready to set up ambushes or hunt down your group
...or we could just have enemies that spawn in their spot and take up space until they are killed
I think the idea has a lot of merit and I would heartily welcome such a thing.
One idea I had after reading your post would be to establish some change to an area that had been neglected from player involvement for a while. Perhaps a tribe of Gnolls gradually settling into of a mostly forgotten part of a zone bringing with it new content, new Boss, new rewards.
I like the idea of short term changes to certain areas. The trolls move in for a few months, wreak havoc on the local inhabitants and then migrate somewhere else. Perhaps a dragon develops a taste for the local sheep, then moves on looking for a change of diet.
I'm not a big fan of permanent server-wide events like waking the Sleeper in EQ. Big prestige for a small group and a pain for everyone else. It means that late-comers to the game can never experience those areas as they once were.
AOC plans to have very dynamic regions which level up and down based on player activity, but every feature of every other game doesn't have to be in Pantheon.
Almost by definition, expansions should expand, as in add new zones. You don't have to pave paradise and put up a parking lot. It really pained me to see some of the EQ expansions go back and completely re-invent classic zones. For me that was a signal that things were coming off the rails. I'm sure this is one of many reasons that EQEMU servers were so popular. People loved those classic zones.
Celandor said:I like the idea of short term changes to certain areas. The trolls move in for a few months, wreak havoc on the local inhabitants and then migrate somewhere else. Perhaps a dragon develops a taste for the local sheep, then moves on looking for a change of diet.
I'm not a big fan of permanent server-wide events like waking the Sleeper in EQ. Big prestige for a small group and a pain for everyone else. It means that late-comers to the game can never experience those areas as they once were.
AOC plans to have very dynamic regions which level up and down based on player activity, but every feature of every other game doesn't have to be in Pantheon.
Almost by definition, expansions should expand, as in add new zones. You don't have to pave paradise and put up a parking lot. It really pained me to see some of the EQ expansions go back and completely re-invent classic zones. For me that was a signal that things were coming off the rails. I'm sure this is one of many reasons that EQEMU servers were so popular. People loved those classic zones.
I have no idea what AOC is, so that comment isn't really relevant to my thoughts on the "living world" concept. You're the second person who has mentioned it, but I, literally, have no idea what it is. I, sspecifically, linked to the two Pantheon videos that inspired me to make this post.
Nobody said anything about "re-inventing" zones. Nobody. Nowhere. Localized changes in areas, such as the ruins in my initial example, are not "re-inventing" the zone. Especially not given that they have already stated that mixed-level content will be in place in the zones.
Edited to add: My idea fof the "licing woorld" concept makes that mixed level concept more dynamic rather than leaving it static.
Celandor said:I like the idea of short term changes to certain areas. The trolls move in for a few months, wreak havoc on the local inhabitants and then migrate somewhere else. Perhaps a dragon develops a taste for the local sheep, then moves on looking for a change of diet.
I'm not a big fan of permanent server-wide events like waking the Sleeper in EQ. Big prestige for a small group and a pain for everyone else. It means that late-comers to the game can never experience those areas as they once were.
AOC plans to have very dynamic regions which level up and down based on player activity, but every feature of every other game doesn't have to be in Pantheon.
Almost by definition, expansions should expand, as in add new zones. You don't have to pave paradise and put up a parking lot. It really pained me to see some of the EQ expansions go back and completely re-invent classic zones. For me that was a signal that things were coming off the rails. I'm sure this is one of many reasons that EQEMU servers were so popular. People loved those classic zones.
So... Because two people mentioned AoC I went and watched a couple of videos on it. I'm not sure what it is, but something in the game itself trips the "this feels wrong" feeling in my head. I'm not sure what it is that is doing that though. It's weird. Maybe it's how "perfect" everything looks, I don't know.
They're taking it to MUCH more of an extreme than I am talking about here in this thread, and basing their whole game on it. In addition, the "living world" pieces that I am talking about in this thread are all mob/procedural generated stuff, not player generated. I'm not talking entire cities and what-not; although that could be interesting out in "the wastelands" somewhere. But overr-all, I was thinking smaller things that give the world a "lived in" feel. Which is why I mentioned maybe occupying and re-purposing ruins.
Kalok said:From what I gather based on the Youtube videos, the procedural stuff is already in place. They've specifically mentiobed procedural code with regards to weather and other effects like fog.
Yeah man, just because one thing is procedural don't mean everything can be adapted to it because "the code is in". This statement comes from a non programming background but someone wanting to provide helpful insite but just is not understanding the complete difference in the topic at hand.
Zeem said:Kalok said:From what I gather based on the Youtube videos, the procedural stuff is already in place. They've specifically mentiobed procedural code with regards to weather and other effects like fog.
Yeah man, just because one thing is procedural don't mean everything can be adapted to it because "the code is in". This statement comes from a non programming background but someone wanting to provide helpful insite but just is not understanding the complete difference in the topic at hand.
It doesn't mean that it's NOT capable of being ported either. They have ALREADY said that they can do something like what I mentioned, so maybe you should actually go weatch the videos before you sit there and talk smack about other people's ideas.
Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:From what I gather based on the Youtube videos, the procedural stuff is already in place. They've specifically mentiobed procedural code with regards to weather and other effects like fog.
Yeah man, just because one thing is procedural don't mean everything can be adapted to it because "the code is in". This statement comes from a non programming background but someone wanting to provide helpful insite but just is not understanding the complete difference in the topic at hand.
It doesn't mean that it's NOT capable of being ported either. They have ALREADY said that they can do something like what I mentioned, so maybe you should actually go weatch the videos before you sit there and talk smack about other people's ideas.
Ive seen every video. Been around sincer Kickstarter but that isnt even the point man you can't adapt or reuse code that wasnt built to be reused. Sure can it be modified but your coming off as you saw a building but your really missing the point and its funny to everyone besides you that that building was designed and greyboxed to look like it was repurposed, no auto generation art there man, sry to burst your man bubble. Im start making videos of my responses to your comments. Great content, never ending.
Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:From what I gather based on the Youtube videos, the procedural stuff is already in place. They've specifically mentiobed procedural code with regards to weather and other effects like fog.
Yeah man, just because one thing is procedural don't mean everything can be adapted to it because "the code is in". This statement comes from a non programming background but someone wanting to provide helpful insite but just is not understanding the complete difference in the topic at hand.
It doesn't mean that it's NOT capable of being ported either. They have ALREADY said that they can do something like what I mentioned, so maybe you should actually go weatch the videos before you sit there and talk smack about other people's ideas.
Ive seen every video. Been around sincer Kickstarter but that isnt even the point man you can't adapt or reuse code that wasnt built to be reused. Sure can it be modified but your coming off as you saw a building but your really missing the point and its funny to everyone besides you that that building was designed and greyboxed to look like it was repurposed, no auto generation art there man, sry to burst your man bubble.
I know the fricken building was BUILT OUT tro look like it was re-purposed. I never said that it wasn't. Now you're just being, deliberately I assume, assinine. What I said was that the building gave me the IDEA for a system to repurpose ruins using procedural code. You can re-use ANY code. It's just a matter of how much work it is to re-purpose it vs re-write it from scratch.
As far as "funny to everyone". It seems like most people like my idea of a living world. So you might want to re-visit that. Everyone seems to have been able to read that I was using the Black Dagger Keep of somerthing that looked repurposed as a base for how I got my idea, not that it was actually repurposed. YOU are the only one that seems to have thought that, which speaks more about you, and your reading comprehention abilities. Because I, in fact, specifically stated that.
Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:From what I gather based on the Youtube videos, the procedural stuff is already in place. They've specifically mentiobed procedural code with regards to weather and other effects like fog.
Yeah man, just because one thing is procedural don't mean everything can be adapted to it because "the code is in". This statement comes from a non programming background but someone wanting to provide helpful insite but just is not understanding the complete difference in the topic at hand.
It doesn't mean that it's NOT capable of being ported either. They have ALREADY said that they can do something like what I mentioned, so maybe you should actually go weatch the videos before you sit there and talk smack about other people's ideas.
Ive seen every video. Been around sincer Kickstarter but that isnt even the point man you can't adapt or reuse code that wasnt built to be reused. Sure can it be modified but your coming off as you saw a building but your really missing the point and its funny to everyone besides you that that building was designed and greyboxed to look like it was repurposed, no auto generation art there man, sry to burst your man bubble.
I know the fricken building was BUILT OUT tro look like it was re-purposed. I never said that it wasn't. Now you're just being, deliberately I assume, assinine. What I said was that the building gave me the IDEA for a system to repurpose ruins using procedural code. You can re-use ANY code. It's just a matter of how much work it is to re-purpose it vs re-write it from scratch.
As far as "funny to everyone". It seems like most people like my idea of a living world. So you might want to re-visit that. Everyone seems to have been able to read that I was using the Black Dagger Keep of somerthing that looked repurposed as a base for how I got my idea, not that it was actually repurposed. YOU are the only one that seems to have thought that, which speaks more about you, and your reading comprehention abilities. Because I, in fact, specifically stated that.
Living world idea wasn't yours. Its a common idea on all MMOs. So, I like the idea of a living world but you missed my initial post above about how to really implement it. Immortal characters. You never answered that.
Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:From what I gather based on the Youtube videos, the procedural stuff is already in place. They've specifically mentiobed procedural code with regards to weather and other effects like fog.
Yeah man, just because one thing is procedural don't mean everything can be adapted to it because "the code is in". This statement comes from a non programming background but someone wanting to provide helpful insite but just is not understanding the complete difference in the topic at hand.
It doesn't mean that it's NOT capable of being ported either. They have ALREADY said that they can do something like what I mentioned, so maybe you should actually go weatch the videos before you sit there and talk smack about other people's ideas.
Ive seen every video. Been around sincer Kickstarter but that isnt even the point man you can't adapt or reuse code that wasnt built to be reused. Sure can it be modified but your coming off as you saw a building but your really missing the point and its funny to everyone besides you that that building was designed and greyboxed to look like it was repurposed, no auto generation art there man, sry to burst your man bubble.
I know the fricken building was BUILT OUT tro look like it was re-purposed. I never said that it wasn't. Now you're just being, deliberately I assume, assinine. What I said was that the building gave me the IDEA for a system to repurpose ruins using procedural code. You can re-use ANY code. It's just a matter of how much work it is to re-purpose it vs re-write it from scratch.
As far as "funny to everyone". It seems like most people like my idea of a living world. So you might want to re-visit that. Everyone seems to have been able to read that I was using the Black Dagger Keep of somerthing that looked repurposed as a base for how I got my idea, not that it was actually repurposed. YOU are the only one that seems to have thought that, which speaks more about you, and your reading comprehention abilities. Because I, in fact, specifically stated that.
Living world idea wasn't yours. Its a common idea on all MMOs. So, I like the idea of a living world but you missed my initial post above about how to really implement it. Immortal characters. You never answered that.
I never claimed to have invented the living world concept. I disregarded your "immortal character" bercause it's not relevant to the toughts that I had, so there was no need to respond.
Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:Zeem said:Kalok said:From what I gather based on the Youtube videos, the procedural stuff is already in place. They've specifically mentiobed procedural code with regards to weather and other effects like fog.
Yeah man, just because one thing is procedural don't mean everything can be adapted to it because "the code is in". This statement comes from a non programming background but someone wanting to provide helpful insite but just is not understanding the complete difference in the topic at hand.
It doesn't mean that it's NOT capable of being ported either. They have ALREADY said that they can do something like what I mentioned, so maybe you should actually go weatch the videos before you sit there and talk smack about other people's ideas.
Ive seen every video. Been around sincer Kickstarter but that isnt even the point man you can't adapt or reuse code that wasnt built to be reused. Sure can it be modified but your coming off as you saw a building but your really missing the point and its funny to everyone besides you that that building was designed and greyboxed to look like it was repurposed, no auto generation art there man, sry to burst your man bubble.
I know the fricken building was BUILT OUT tro look like it was re-purposed. I never said that it wasn't. Now you're just being, deliberately I assume, assinine. What I said was that the building gave me the IDEA for a system to repurpose ruins using procedural code. You can re-use ANY code. It's just a matter of how much work it is to re-purpose it vs re-write it from scratch.
As far as "funny to everyone". It seems like most people like my idea of a living world. So you might want to re-visit that. Everyone seems to have been able to read that I was using the Black Dagger Keep of somerthing that looked repurposed as a base for how I got my idea, not that it was actually repurposed. YOU are the only one that seems to have thought that, which speaks more about you, and your reading comprehention abilities. Because I, in fact, specifically stated that.
Living world idea wasn't yours. Its a common idea on all MMOs. So, I like the idea of a living world but you missed my initial post above about how to really implement it. Immortal characters. You never answered that.
I never claimed to have invented the living world concept. I disregarded your "immortal character" bercause it's not relevant to the toughts that I had, so there was no need to respond.
Kalok said:[I never claimed to have invented the living world concept. I disregarded your "immortal character" bercause it's not relevant to the toughts that I had, so there was no need to respond.
I do think it applies, I can discuss it more maybe on discord in the pantheon channel. To sum it up I do like this idea, just has to be done right.
Just got another idea for this.... From all places, the Harry Potter books. In one of the books it states that if a "muggle" looks at Hogwarts all that they will see is a run down castle. So, how about, without a magic implement, potion, quest completion, whatever, one, or more, ruins in the area(s) look like ruins, but if you've done that, it "becomes" a functional area that you can attack and has mobs.
Without instancing, it seems the only way that could work would be to have different versions of maps, for instance when you first go into a zone, the structures appear ruined, but as your actions affect that zone, you gain access to a different map version wherein the structures or area have changed... This could work in many ways, such as a city gets destroyed or built, mobs building up in force or engaging in construction/destruction... Lots of options
After you sufficiently affected that zone, whenever you went to that area, you would go to the changed version of that map instead of the original, but that might cause issues if you wanted to find a player that hadn't progressed to the same level in that zone as you
With instancing, it may be easier to switch between map versions, but either method would seem to go against the core concept of the uninstanced open world packed with players
I'm not sure how the world would work if you could reveal an alternate version of a structure or area by drinking a potion or something like that... If you don't have that potion would the mobs be invisible? It would seem that they would still take up space, and they would have to know to ignore you unless you were under the effect of the potion
To those not under the effect of the potion, would it look like you were running in air and fighting ghosts above a ruin instead of wading through enemies in a rebuilt tower that only you can see because you had advanced enough to gain that potion?
I love the ideas that a living world can allow for, as I've always felt the static unchanging world around my character was not squaring with all of the stuff I had been doing to make that world a better place (or worse, if the game allowed it and I wanted to play that way) ultimately making it seem like nothing I did ever mattered... Complete a dungeon, beat a Boss... no matter, as soon as you leave with your loot everything resets... Save the City from destruction? It was never really in any danger, that was just a lineal quest-line intended to be completed
A game world is not immersive if you cannot change it, but I don't know how to make that possible for everyone in an MMO without either one player altering the world other players are trying to progress through or separating the players based on how far they have progressed
In the raid thread I was thinking about world changing events like invasions that would require many parties to team up and take parts in fighting to stop an enemy force from destroying a city or otherwise taking an objective with world altering consequences on failure, but there would have to be different versions of these to avoid one city turning into Pantheon's version of the X-Men Mansion...
To me, a "Living World" is only alive because it could be killed, so there is danger to the world over time as well as the hope that it could be improved, though a game would have to be designed around these concepts in order to pull it off... but if it were and it worked.... wow
Preechr said:Without instancing, it seems the only way that could work would be to have different versions of maps, for instance when you first go into a zone, the structures appear ruined, but as your actions affect that zone, you gain access to a different map version wherein the structures or area have changed... This could work in many ways, such as a city gets destroyed or built, mobs building up in force or engaging in construction/destruction... Lots of options
After you sufficiently affected that zone, whenever you went to that area, you would go to the changed version of that map instead of the original, but that might cause issues if you wanted to find a player that hadn't progressed to the same level in that zone as you
With instancing, it may be easier to switch between map versions, but either method would seem to go against the core concept of the uninstanced open world packed with players
I'm not sure how the world would work if you could reveal an alternate version of a structure or area by drinking a potion or something like that... If you don't have that potion would the mobs be invisible? It would seem that they would still take up space, and they would have to know to ignore you unless you were under the effect of the potion
To those not under the effect of the potion, would it look like you were running in air and fighting ghosts above a ruin instead of wading through enemies in a rebuilt tower that only you can see because you had advanced enough to gain that potion?
I love the ideas that a living world can allow for, as I've always felt the static unchanging world around my character was not squaring with all of the stuff I had been doing to make that world a better place (or worse, if the game allowed it and I wanted to play that way) ultimately making it seem like nothing I did ever mattered... Complete a dungeon, beat a Boss... no matter, as soon as you leave with your loot everything resets... Save the City from destruction? It was never really in any danger, that was just a lineal quest-line intended to be completed
A game world is not immersive if you cannot change it, but I don't know how to make that possible for everyone in an MMO without either one player altering the world other players are trying to progress through or separating the players based on how far they have progressed
In the raid thread I was thinking about world changing events like invasions that would require many parties to team up and take parts in fighting to stop an enemy force from destroying a city or otherwise taking an objective with world altering consequences on failure, but there would have to be different versions of these to avoid one city turning into Pantheon's version of the X-Men Mansion...
To me, a "Living World" is only alive because it could be killed, so there is danger to the world over time as well as the hope that it could be improved, though a game would have to be designed around these concepts in order to pull it off... but if it were and it worked.... wow
Well, yes and no. They sort of already have something similar to this in game where the enviironment can cause damage, which can be mitigated by having certain items or enchantments on you. Thoretically, this means that something like that could be implemented.
In my case, by "living world", I mean one that can change over time, not one that is actually "alive" like a mob or NPC.