So we've all seen a group pull a mob and an add comes. What happens is fairly routine, the CC class mezzes and everyone assists through the main assist or ensures they target the correct mob. Rinse and repeat and make sure you don't use any abilities that are PBoE, or AoE because you don't want to break the mez.
Thats about as traditional as group mechanics get. Also boring and sometimes frustrating because I want to use my AoE's. I want to dance around as a flurry of arrows fall from the sky. ;-) So, just hoping on a prayer here, that some class in the game gets "teleport" an abiilty that allows you to teleport a mob 10 meters away. So then on pulls, if you get an add, that add can be teleported, then the CC guy can target that mob and mez him, so then the rest of the group gets to have fun on the first guy.
I know all types of discussions have been had about us not knowing all the abilties in the game, but I'm hoping for a slight shift in what was traditional pull mechanisims to a fully engaging dynamic of group combat.
Teleport doesn't have to be it, take a Monk for example, on an "add" a Monk could have the ability "Subdue" (idk) and it's like a 10 second "knockout" or "make unconcious" abiltiy. So the Monk could also be a sort of CC class, that just has to change targets every 9 seconds and apply the knowckout to the add until mob 1 is finished off. Ranger classes using "Pin" on pull ect. to stop adds from reaching the group.
Kittik said:So we've all seen a group pull a mob and an add comes. What happens is fairly routine, the CC class mezzes and everyone assists through the main assist or ensures they target the correct mob. Rinse and repeat and make sure you don't use any abilities that are PBoE, or AoE because you don't want to break the mez.
Thats about as traditional as group mechanics get. Also boring and sometimes frustrating because I want to use my AoE's. I want to dance around as a flurry of arrows fall from the sky. ;-) So, just hoping on a prayer here, that some class in the game gets "teleport" an abiilty that allows you to teleport a mob 10 meters away. So then on pulls, if you get an add, that add can be teleported, then the CC guy can target that mob and mez him, so then the rest of the group gets to have fun on the first guy.
I know all types of discussions have been had about us not knowing all the abilties in the game, but I'm hoping for a slight shift in what was traditional pull mechanisims to a fully engaging dynamic of group combat.
Teleport doesn't have to be it, take a Monk for example, on an "add" a Monk could have the ability "Subdue" (idk) and it's like a 10 second "knockout" or "make unconcious" abiltiy. So the Monk could also be a sort of CC class, that just has to change targets every 9 seconds and apply the knowckout to the add until mob 1 is finished off. Ranger classes using "Pin" on pull ect. to stop adds from reaching the group.
The Rogue has some CC utility, based on the 'Smoke and Mirrors' skill, although "smoke and mirrors" to me screams Illusionist. It wouldn't be unreasonable to hope that the Monk has some as well.
I guess it depends on the goal. EQ2 made it so mez'd mobs weren't hit by AE's ( See here. " AE auto attack skills like Hurricane or Surrounding Attacks will no longer hit mezzed mobs." They also made similar adjustments earlier for normal spells, iirc. The point is, it can be done, if that's the goal. Not a precedent, easy to code.
In EQ1, as a Wizard, I always had to estimate the distance between two mez'd mobs when I was using AE rain spells. If they hit a single target three times, that was a pretty good mana/dmg ratio. But the risk was, it might hit another mez'd mob if it was too close, and wake them up. So it was often a tricky proposition as to whether or not to bring the rain. Some good tanks understood when I asked them for rain spacing. Others had no idea what I meant, but after I showed them how much faster things died, they were happy to oblige. Most bad tanks couldn't tell their ass from their elbow, so considering another class in their bash everything M.O. was out of the question. So I would use very mana inefficient DD's until we were down to one mob, then bring the rain and med more. :|
Such a 'push back' ability (like Thunder Strike had a 15 unit push in EQ1, Thunderclap had a 10 unit push) as you're describing can be used in an exploitive fashion (was pretty hilarious pushing around our OWN Kael giants, even though they couldn't be interrupted with it, like most normal mobs) but that's going to be true of all spells and skills as Pantheon isn't going to have locked encounters. At least, not to date. So I don't really see an issue with a straight up "push only" ability like the Teleport you're describing, provided it didn't break mez itself.
It also depends on class design. Maybe there is no "AOE class", but instead "Classes that have some AOE capability".
To me that's a strategic desicision in your group makeup and tactics. If you want to put together an AOE group, agree to that, invite the classes that fit that tactic, and go for it. If the group instead isn't built around AOE, doesn't have tools and tactics suited to that, don't AOE and use CC.
Ultimately there should be tradeoffs and consequences to the choices you make. I see using AOE in bad places as exactly that; bad choice with comensurate bad consequences. I don't think mechanics should be built with a mind toward keeping you from making bad tactical decisions, and you should pay for them when you make them.
I would love some dynamic group combat abilities and cooperation. In one of the stream, when Cohh is playing Monk, he understands that some of his abilities are supposed to be queued up to maximize his damage. Nothing new there. That is very common in most game. What I would like to see if that some abilities would combo with different classes and not be limited by abilities.
Let's say, a monk kick a ennemy, the target is stunned. Now he can do an elbow kick and get additional damage because the target is stunned. I'd like to see that a warrior or a dire lord could also use some of their abilities related to the current state of the target.
So instead of having a boring rotation like most MMO, we would have a very dynamic and expected fight because mob could resist those abilities and it would make sense that the group communicate on those potential combo. I could see the same kind of thing for magic abilties. We know that air spells combo well with water spells.
vjek said:I guess it depends on the goal. EQ2 made it so mez'd mobs weren't hit by AE's ( See here. " AE auto attack skills like Hurricane or Surrounding Attacks will no longer hit mezzed mobs." They also made similar adjustments earlier for normal spells, iirc. The point is, it can be done, if that's the goal. Not a precedent, easy to code.
In EQ1, as a Wizard, I always had to estimate the distance between two mez'd mobs when I was using AE rain spells. If they hit a single target three times, that was a pretty good mana/dmg ratio. But the risk was, it might hit another mez'd mob if it was too close, and wake them up. So it was often a tricky proposition as to whether or not to bring the rain. Some good tanks understood when I asked them for rain spacing. Others had no idea what I meant, but after I showed them how much faster things died, they were happy to oblige. Most bad tanks couldn't tell their ass from their elbow, so considering another class in their bash everything M.O. was out of the question. So I would use very mana inefficient DD's until we were down to one mob, then bring the rain and med more. :|
Such a 'push back' ability (like Thunder Strike had a 15 unit push in EQ1, Thunderclap had a 10 unit push) as you're describing can be used in an exploitive fashion (was pretty hilarious pushing around our OWN Kael giants, even though they couldn't be interrupted with it, like most normal mobs) but that's going to be true of all spells and skills as Pantheon isn't going to have locked encounters. At least, not to date. So I don't really see an issue with a straight up "push only" ability like the Teleport you're describing, provided it didn't break mez itself.
It was mentioned by Aradune that for the most part there won't be instances, but there "may" be a locked area around a boss mob (Epic Mobs?) that has already been engaged, so that might count as a locked encounter I am assuming. Didn't say what kind of boss mob that's why my question mark beside Epic mobs.
Cana
Ithaca said:I would love some dynamic group combat abilities and cooperation. In one of the stream, when Cohh is playing Monk, he understands that some of his abilities are supposed to be queued up to maximize his damage. Nothing new there. That is very common in most game. What I would like to see if that some abilities would combo with different classes and not be limited by abilities.
Let's say, a monk kick a ennemy, the target is stunned. Now he can do an elbow kick and get additional damage because the target is stunned. I'd like to see that a warrior or a dire lord could also use some of their abilities related to the current state of the target.
So instead of having a boring rotation like most MMO, we would have a very dynamic and expected fight because mob could resist those abilities and it would make sense that the group communicate on those potential combo. I could see the same kind of thing for magic abilties. We know that air spells combo well with water spells.
Awesome point. EQ2 did something like this with Heroic Opportunities. Where one class would start a HO and other classes in sucession would continue it to it's finish. And depending on which class started it and which other classes did their progression abilities in what order depended on what the HO did. Some HO's would add significant damager, others would regen power and others could heal...it was a super neat is dreadfully underutilitized system.
Yes, it is somewhat related to Heroic Opportunities. I created a topic that was closed: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/7415/heroic-opportunities
I thought it could be related to the mana color system....