Question I wanted to ask devs
Is it set in stone that the diaglog given by npcs, and quest givers will be in a preformatted text on a pop up where a player has to Click through available text options?
Or will you after testing what people like go back to a more EQ text MUD where the dialog will be presetnted in your normal chat channel and you have to figure out what to say yourself?
Or at least give an option to players to choose what they like?
I always hated being presented with a click through of options for some reason as it feels unimersive to me since we are already typing everything in General chat already.
Reason why I bring this up, is that once your perception is high enough it will become the same thing as quest bubbles in WOW.
You are walking down a road and a pop up shows up in front of an NPC that says, look here come talk to me, I am important. Which is the same thing as quest bubbles.
Most of us hate quest bubbles above NPC's heads right?
Well is'nt the perception system going to do the exact same thing if you place pop ups with quest dialog in your line of site when you near an NPC that has a quest for you.
We saw the stream where the crying lady asks you to go to the cave, well that technically is a quest bubble. Which most of us don't want.
I would hope that you have to inititate conversation not have text bubbles., like EQ 1. Where you actually have to type something, not just click a button. Or at least visually hear or see a person crying and be smart enough to go up and hail them yourself, or at least have the conversation come through your normal chat channel so you have to read the localized conversations where your normally reply to your friends in /say /group chat etc. When you have to type your responses instead of clicking a list of available options, you are more immersed in the environment, least thats how I feel. I hate select your option choices in current MMOs..
thoughts?
I would prefer typing text. For a few reasons. One, It makes the world feel more alive when I can see what other players are saying to NPCs. Two, I want my character to say things in my own speaking style, not in the style chosen by the writers. Let them direct what the NPCs say, not what I say. Third, there's always the chance that certain things, certain quests, certain hints might be hidden and take a bit longer to be found out by people and the masses at large. With select your text choices there's really no way to hide something like that.
I've noticed that I'm 80% more likely to not even read quest text if I just have to click through to get it assigned. In EQ I'm more inclined to talk to the NPCs to see if they have funny text hidden away somewhere, and subsequently also more likely to interact with others around me in /say. Makes things much more entertaining and helps add to the characterization of my toon.
Demostorm said:Question I wanted to ask devs
Is it set in stone that the diaglog given by npcs, and quest givers will be in a preformatted text on a pop up where a player has to Click through available text options?
Or will you after testing what people like go back to a more EQ text MUD where the dialog will be presetnted in your normal chat channel and you have to figure out what to say yourself? or at least give an option? I always hated being presented with a click through of options for some reason as it feels unimersive to me since we are already typing everything in General chat already.
Reason why I bring this up, is that once your perception is high enough it will become a the same thing as quest bubbles in WOW.
You are walking down a road and a pop up shows up in front of an NPC that says, look here come talk to me, I am important. Which is the same thing as quest bubbles.
We all hate quest bubbles above NPC's heads, well is'nt the perception system going to do the exact same thing by placing pop ups when you near an NPC with guidence? I would hope that you have to inititate conversation not have text bubbles., like EQ 1. Where you actually have to type something, not just click a button. Or at least visually hear or see a person crying and be smart enough to go up and hail them yourself, or at least have the conversation come through your normal chat channel so you have to read the localized conversations where your normally reply to your friends in /say /group chat etc. When you have to type your responses instead of clicking a list of available options, you are more immersed in the environment, least thats how I feel. I hate select your option choices in current MMOs..
thoughts?
Thoughts? You're correct. IMO they should have saved the as yet to be actually thought out perception system and revealed it later, or canned it. Because right now it is nothing but a quest ?! replacement which opens them up to this kind of criticism. Also, there are lots of posts on the subject of perception.
Interaction with NPCs to guide my next exploratory search is fine by me. The Perception skill is one I intend on working on. The better your perception, the more it opens up the world for you. That takes a little effort...to reach ingame goals. :) I don't mind that, matter of fact the more I find..the happier I'll be. :) And there won't be ! or ? above their heads, you actually have to read what is ongoing in their speech. If your perception isn't high enough, you won't detect the npc that needs you to do something for them.
Cana
I, for one prefer the MUD style approach where you have to decipher the correct keywords. In fact I dont even want the world to approach me, I want to interract with world on my own time.
The exclamation mark and popups are a mechanic, like a PoI or a bouncing red ball, that draws the player toward something. That type of game play, although a staple of current MMO's, is there to show the player the best path, or fastest route to beating the game. The thing is, how many people remember getting their "Violet Scale Armor" in WoW vs how many remember getting their "Rod of Insidious Glamor" in EQ? How much value to the player was that Violet Scale Armor?
Experienced tabletop DM's sometimes spend months developing a quest hook and fully fleshed out story, only to find the players want to interract with someone else in their world that piqued their interest. And they often find themselves enjoying the side quest as much as the main quest. The point is, surprises can be hidden in game, like little eastereggs for the players to discover.
Should major story arcs and epic quests have pop-ups and Exclamation marks? probably, yes.
Should there be [Discoverable] content to those who with high perception? Oh, my. Yes!
Should there be phrases that are beyond percievable, eastereggs, surprises, gifts to clever gamers with high "real life" perception? Should the world lead you on a quest without holding your hand? Should there be rewards for people who follow the unmarked path and discover something unexpected? In MY dream MMO, this is the rule, not the exception.
Quote:
Should there be [Discoverable] content to those who with high perception? Oh, my. Yes!
Should there be phrases that are beyond percievable, eastereggs, surprises, gifts to clever gamers with high "real life" perception? Should the world lead you on a quest without holding your hand? Should there be rewards for people who follow the unmarked path and discover something unexpected? In MY dream MMO, this is the rule, not the exception. - end quote
I would love this. The thinking gamer type of game, I don't want little glowy trails leading me onward, I want to fall over something by accident as I am out in the world exploring...and then follow the clues, or hints from there. I want to think about it, decipher it. :)
Cana
CanadinaXegony said:Quote:
Should there be [Discoverable] content to those who with high perception? Oh, my. Yes!
Should there be phrases that are beyond percievable, eastereggs, surprises, gifts to clever gamers with high "real life" perception? Should the world lead you on a quest without holding your hand? Should there be rewards for people who follow the unmarked path and discover something unexpected? In MY dream MMO, this is the rule, not the exception. - end quote
I would love this. The thinking gamer type of game, I don't want little glowy trails leading me onward, I want to fall over something by accident as I am out in the world exploring...and then follow the clues, or hints from there. I want to think about it, decipher it. :)
Cana
Agreed, they can add alot of secret things that can be added within NPC text,, some text [can have brakets] but the more intense quests won't.. And those you have to figure out yourself.
Example the non bracked conversations can actualy have sevral types of quests offered by the same npc depending on what you choose, and the NPC just does not offer it unless you go through specific dialogs.
Boy I really doubt they will stick with just text based entry. Shroud of the Avatar tried that and they ended up adding the ability to click or type.
I don't have a problem with typing, I just want to know what to type. EQ in some instances did a great job at helping players know what to type. Other times you had to say things to NPC's that I have no idea how people figured out what to say. As long as I know how to continue dialogue I'm fine typing.
vjek said:I'd rather fight monsters than the UI.
SOTA attempted free text matching / type-talking, and it was no better than simply clicking on the highlighted words.
If VR can do better, have at it. But I wouldn't waste time on it, personally.
Exactly. Man, I hope they don't try this. I understand that many people here legit want Everquest from 1999 with updated graphics but not everything implemented since those days are bad. I hate fighting with the UI when I could be out killing ****.
Why are so many dicussions start on a 'this way not that way' premise? So many could just as easily be 'both'. Let the player decide how they want the information presented. You like cartoon bubbles over NPCs heads? Fine, check that box. You want text on your chatwindow? Fine, check that box. The information both approaches receive is exactly the same. The difference is just how it is presented.
So please try thinking of things as having multiple approaches isntead of the so damn common mutually exclusive approach. It does nothing but generate arguments.
Much more fun to type to prompt NPCs into continuing their stories!
It engages our minds. It's different and draws us right in to the world. These little things go a loong way in enchanting the game world. Typing our own responses is fun!
Back in the day many games had typing - with crude programs that recognized a small number of words and tried to figure out what you might be saying to the NPC.
I see no great value to standing in front of a NPC trying desperately to figure out what word he or she is looking for in order to give you information or a quest.
I note that such a system would be particularly difficult for palyers for whom English isn't their primary language - and most major MMOs have people from a variety of countries playing these days.
I want to use my microphone to talk back, Tony Stark up in here.
I'm not looking forward to another game that has glowing ! everywhere, or with popups hitting me in the face as I explore. I like to find things rather than have them hit me with an air horn notification if I'm in proximity.
That being said, I am not a fan of:
/say "What book?"
/say "What big book?"
/say "What black book?"
/say "What big black book?"
/say "What big black iron-bound book?"
/say "What book of secrets?"
/say "What big black book secrets?"
Joe says, "Ask about the Tome of Elemental Squirrels."
/say "WTF?"
Joe says, "Seriously. It works."
/say "What Tome of Elemental Squirrels?"
Elementalist Jiggers says, "I'm glad you asked Feyshtey...."
*Bangs head on keyboard.*
How is this for a compromise solution?
- No floaty !s to tell you that an NPC is a quest giver, etc.
- When you interact with an NPC you get a dialog window that tells you what the NPC says
- In the dialog window are "responses" that you can choose from. Depending on your class/race/faction/perception/etc, you may get *additional* responses to choose from.
- Some of those responses may lead to more information or a quest. Others may end the conversation.
- For the sake of realism, if you choose a bad response, you might take a minor faction hit, and have to wait for the NPC to "cool down" for a few minutes before you try the conversation again.
Would that be immersive enough for most of us, in that we still have to navigate through the conversations to find the quests? Presumably, NPC dialog could be written in such a way that it wouldn't be super obvious in all cases.
Too much? Not enough? Shut up Nephele, that'll never work? :)