Kaen said:
My experience has been a little different from yours.
*snip*
Just my 2c...
I can see we are far enough apart in our opinions that we will not agree. I would rather see progeny start at level 25ish (what ever level a character has all the first ranks of their primary abilities) then have them roll through the early levels and breaking the power curve with late game gear. Playing on easy mode can be fun but there is usually also a relative reduction in feelings of accomplishment.
But I can recognize that I may be in the minority and will bow out of this one.
I absolutely loved twinking in EQ... I "personally" feel that the benefits of twinking a melee outweigh those of twinking a caster since melee are typically much more gear dependent. Like a Fungi tunic and some haste on an Iksar Monk (combined with feign death) made the character nearly invincible until end game. I hope there are items for casters as well. With that being said, it should be taken into consideration that the powerful "twink" items will be perma-camped shortly after they are discovered (potentially restricting access to players that want/need the item(s) for their primary character).
Darch said:I absolutely loved twinking in EQ... I "personally" feel that the benefits of twinking a melee outweigh those of twinking a caster since melee are typically much more gear dependent. Like a Fungi tunic and some haste on an Iksar Monk (combined with feign death) made the character nearly invincible until end game. I hope there are items for casters as well. With that being said, it should be taken into consideration that the powerful "twink" items will be perma-camped shortly after they are discovered (potentially restricting access to players that want/need the item(s) for their primary character).
I'd hope they learned a bit from things like that and have more strict scaling on some things. Fungi tunic was +5 regen at level 1 and was already maxed out at +15 by level 20, it wouldn't have been nearly as OP if it started at something like +2 and scaled up to +15 by level 40-50. Same could apply to on-equip haste so something like Cloak of Flames wouldn't rocket a melee twink into the heavens.
Iksar said:Darch said:I absolutely loved twinking in EQ... I "personally" feel that the benefits of twinking a melee outweigh those of twinking a caster since melee are typically much more gear dependent. Like a Fungi tunic and some haste on an Iksar Monk (combined with feign death) made the character nearly invincible until end game. I hope there are items for casters as well. With that being said, it should be taken into consideration that the powerful "twink" items will be perma-camped shortly after they are discovered (potentially restricting access to players that want/need the item(s) for their primary character).
I'd hope they learned a bit from things like that and have more strict scaling on some things. Fungi tunic was +5 regen at level 1 and was already maxed out at +15 by level 20, it wouldn't have been nearly as OP if it started at something like +2 and scaled up to +15 by level 40-50. Same could apply to on-equip haste so something like Cloak of Flames wouldn't rocket a melee twink into the heavens.
Agreed. A simple scaling could have been something like regenerating 1/10 of the character's level per sec so it would be ineffective under lvl 10, a level 20 character would regen 2HP/sec and by level 50 regenerating 5 HP/sec which would be similar to the fungi's 15hp/tick because I believe the "ticks" in the game were timed by every 3 seconds server time. I played that game for so many years and never ever got a Cloak of Flames because there was always some other DPS that "needed" it more than me as a SHD :(
I did love my pre-nurf Circlet of Shadows though! ;)
Darch said:Agreed. A simple scaling could have been something like regenerating 1/10 of the character's level per sec so it would be ineffective under lvl 10, a level 20 character would regen 2HP/sec and by level 50 regenerating 5 HP/sec which would be similar to the fungi's 15hp/tick because I believe the "ticks" in the game were timed by every 3 seconds server time. I played that game for so many years and never ever got a Cloak of Flames because there was always some other DPS that "needed" it more than me as a SHD :(
I did love my pre-nurf Circlet of Shadows though! ;)
A tick was 6 seconds :)
Trasak said:Kaen said:
My experience has been a little different from yours.
*snip*
Just my 2c...I can see we are far enough apart in our opinions that we will not agree. I would rather see progeny start at level 25ish (what ever level a character has all the first ranks of their primary abilities) then have them roll through the early levels and breaking the power curve with late game gear. Playing on easy mode can be fun but there is usually also a relative reduction in feelings of accomplishment.
But I can recognize that I may be in the minority and will bow out of this one.
Kaen said:Trasak said:Kaen said:
My experience has been a little different from yours.
*snip*
Just my 2c...I can see we are far enough apart in our opinions that we will not agree. I would rather see progeny start at level 25ish (what ever level a character has all the first ranks of their primary abilities) then have them roll through the early levels and breaking the power curve with late game gear. Playing on easy mode can be fun but there is usually also a relative reduction in feelings of accomplishment.
But I can recognize that I may be in the minority and will bow out of this one.
Minority or not, sharing your opinions and experiences is most welcome, and encouraged. :) There have been several occasions thus far where I have altered my position regarding certain matters only after some back and forth discussion.
And as for the highlighted statement, I agree to an extent, and I certainly understand your senitment. However, one thing I realy enjoyed in EQ was farming the equipment for my alts, which could take weeks or even months, depending on the cost of the gear I was after. Attaining these items was where I found a sense of accomplishment, whether it was farming plat or out in the field trying to get gear drops myself. The fun/rewarding part for me was finally getting to play that alt with the gear I had farmed. :D
"EZ mode" in EQ was for the richest of the rich and only lasted so long(depending on era). People blow twinking out of proportion.
In the same way i want mentoring to be done so not to trivialise content at lower levels, I'd like twinking to provide a bit of extra watered down juice but not leave other players ina group wondering if they are contributing lol.
An example from EQ, a Bard rocks up to a group in Unrest at around lvl 20 twinked up hard with heavy armour and big weapon dps leaving any other decent level appropriate gear true tank for dead in regards to holding agro, mitigating damage and not giving the healer any grief.
Krix is right however, high end twinking was for the rich... but in 2018 people tend to get rich fast with savy camping or just buying their wealth.
I just think some sort of scaling to avoid ridiculous over powering is not a bad thing for the game and to maintain the challenge we want.
In the early EQ days a twink was someone who had platemail armor on there low level warrior, and I mean Platemail with NO stats other than higher AC. My first twink was a human SK to whom I was able to get blackened iron chainmail and a Mino axe. Spent a hole 4 pp on the axe and farmed mats for the armor. Again no stats on the items other then higher atk and AC. I still got pwned by the orcs in crushbone but darn didnt I look awesome in my black chainmail with my Mino axe ( actually I think the Mino axe was on my barb war not SK
I enjoyed EQ so much that grinding up a new char was just as much fun if not more then raiding for me. I hope this game brings back that feeling of truely enjoying the game as apposed to solely going after the end game gear, not even in it for content just gear( this is how WoW ended up for me and I hate that it stole the fun of just playing a "Game" and not "working" on gear becuase there is nothing else but raiding to do. Now I hope that any gear giving to a low level char ( gear thats say dropped from a level 45 mob ) has some major stat reduction, Id be happy if it scaled the stats down to slightly better then that level of gear while not making you OP. I do not think any gear on a twink should allow you to "Solo" mobs entended for a full group, but make killing it in a group easier, which could speed up the pulls etc.
Drayian said:In the early EQ days a twink was someone who had platemail armor on there low level warrior, and I mean Platemail with NO stats other than higher AC. My first twink was a human SK to whom I was able to get blackened iron chainmail and a Mino axe. Spent a hole 4 pp on the axe and farmed mats for the armor. Again no stats on the items other then higher atk and AC. I still got pwned by the orcs in crushbone but darn didnt I look awesome in my black chainmail with my Mino axe ( actually I think the Mino axe was on my barb war not SK
I enjoyed EQ so much that grinding up a new char was just as much fun if not more then raiding for me. I hope this game brings back that feeling of truely enjoying the game as apposed to solely going after the end game gear, not even in it for content just gear( this is how WoW ended up for me and I hate that it stole the fun of just playing a "Game" and not "working" on gear becuase there is nothing else but raiding to do. Now I hope that any gear giving to a low level char ( gear thats say dropped from a level 45 mob ) has some major stat reduction, Id be happy if it scaled the stats down to slightly better then that level of gear while not making you OP. I do not think any gear on a twink should allow you to "Solo" mobs entended for a full group, but make killing it in a group easier, which could speed up the pulls etc.
Don't need to scale gear if they scale character stats like EQ instead.
ex: To get the same +HP a level 50 would get from +5 STA a level 1 would need +50 STA.
I'd like to see twinking possible, but scaled/limited.
It wasn't just something that effected the twink, it effected others in the party, the zone, the economy, etc.
The group they were with could find content unchallenging. A twinked tank or puller or even DPSer could trivialise fights.
The other groups in the zone could see the monsters de-populated much quicker than was normal by one twink group and be begging for scraps.
Everyone could see monsters with good twink gear drops continually camped by high-level players obtaining that twink armor.
The economy would see gear being horded for hand-me-downs rather than sold (though that isn't necessarily a bad thing).
It should be controlled enough to make things just a little easier.