dorotea said:Among obvious possibilities for keeping pvp a bit more ....civilized ..... than outright free-for-all (and maybe most pvp players don't WANT it at all civilized - VR should perhaps do surveys on this):
1. Faction versus faction. You aren't an amoral mass murderer you are a hero fighting against the enemies of your people!
2. No gray ganking. You can't attack someone too many levels lower than you are unless they do something to permit it (attack you, buff your enemies, heal your enemies etc). A level 50 can make his or her way to a level 10 zone but he or she can't ruin the experience of the low levels there unless they permit it.
3. Reputation/honor systems penalizing certain actions, such as attacking significantly lower players where the fight isn't really a challenge. Or being in a raid or group that attacks an individual (again no challenge). Someone with poor reputation/honor may be fair game to all with no penalty for an attack under any circumstances - a disincentive for reaching that status.
That sums that up for me. The faction systems are the best platform. It pulls in the RP's and the Pvp folks. Sure its not areana but it can keep the genearl nasty game play out of the frey.
Ox
I played "Age of Conan" when it first released only to see the game ruined by PvP once a certain minority of players had completed much of the PvE content.
It became IMPOSSIBLE for new players to get into the game and almost impossible for existing players to level up alts.
While I have ZERO issues with PvP in general I'm TOTALLY opposed to open world PvP.
ghost7 said:I love playing MMOs on PvP servers. I love PvE and I love a little PVP thrown in the mix. I do however think that attacking a player should have more consequences and there should be a calculation that you need to make whether or not it's 'worth it' to kill them. I was thinking perhaps a reputation system on the PVP server that made things cost more in certain cities if you were a known killer, or maybe even shunned altogether if you've went on a rampage killing lowbies unprovoked. There would be ways to gain favor again with the areas which wouldn't be too hard to complete, but would maybe just be an inconvenience. The whole idea would be to transmute the random 'oh look i have found another player, let me immediately start killing him' to, 'oh look, I found another player, is this person friendly? Do they want to kill me? Let's talk to them and found out. Are they spawn camping something that I need? Is that an ogre? KILL IT WITH FIRE!' What do you guys think we could do to create a tension point that makes players second guess immediately attacking others, and forcing them to make a choice?
sheesh over 25 years of mmo history and the pvp discussions are still the same.
ghost7 said:I do however think that attacking a player should have more consequences and there should be a calculation that you need to make whether or not it's 'worth it' to kill them.
as a pvper, always choose violence. might makes right. consequences and rewards are justified by the individuals.
ghost7 said:I found another player, is this person friendly? Do they want to kill me?
in pvp every player is out to get you and always want to kill you. words are a distraction. always judge by action.
ghost7 said:Are they spawn camping something that I need? Is that an ogre? KILL IT WITH FIRE!' What do you guys think we could do to create a tension point that makes players second guess immediately attacking others, and forcing them to make a choice?
now this is an interesting question. for pantheon in particular i think there were talks about some kind of kill/loot credit locking system like doing 30% damage then its kill/loot table is locked to you are the party. in most cases, if there's shared loot, players will naturally party up. if its 1 loot only for 1 person, that's where a lot of grievances can originate from.
for meaningful pvp to occur:
all players involved must accept and consent to pvp with all the pros and cons of it. this means having a pvp server (we know there will be one at launch). pve is the king for this game afterall. pvp is a privilege here.
having an isolated pvp system. this means no faction to faction, or realm vs realm stuff. its 2024. pvp conflicts should be amongst players and guilds. there can be a guild vs guild ranking system and/or player ranking system.
proper rewards for pvp. the biggest issue i've seen many mmos get wrong is rewards for pvp as it tends to be severely underwhelming. oddly enough 'competitive' pvpers want fairness so a leveled playing field is desired. this is pretty tricky to balance as pvpers will want to also be able pve without feeling like their time investment into pvp hasn't hurt their pve progression. that's something devs would have to constantly monitor and balance, but that's pretty outscope of a pve first game.
ghost7 said:I love playing MMOs on PvP servers. I love PvE and I love a little PVP thrown in the mix. I do however think that attacking a player should have more consequences and there should be a calculation that you need to make whether or not it's 'worth it' to kill them. I was thinking perhaps a reputation system on the PVP server that made things cost more in certain cities if you were a known killer, or maybe even shunned altogether if you've went on a rampage killing lowbies unprovoked. There would be ways to gain favor again with the areas which wouldn't be too hard to complete, but would maybe just be an inconvenience. The whole idea would be to transmute the random 'oh look i have found another player, let me immediately start killing him' to, 'oh look, I found another player, is this person friendly? Do they want to kill me? Let's talk to them and found out. Are they spawn camping something that I need? Is that an ogre? KILL IT WITH FIRE!' What do you guys think we could do to create a tension point that makes players second guess immediately attacking others, and forcing them to make a choice?
Player Faction
Everybody starts with neutral 0 player faction. Player faction can range from -100 to +100
If you are in negative faction, you are a Villan.
If you are in positive faction, you are a Hero.
If a player attacks (first hit) a neutral 0 or + faction player, they receive -1 player faction, if they kill this person that's another -1
If a player attacks a negative faction player, they receive +1, additional +1 if he kills him. The negative faction player will receive +1 toward removing some of his negative faction.
If a player attacks a positive faction player, they receive -1, additional =1 if he kills him.
you get the idea, it would need more fleshed out by the Devs in implementation. now the risk/reward
Player Faction doesn't need to be directly displayed, although it could be, I think something like the players name color it could fade from Blood red for a -100 villain to white for neutral to some other color for hero.
If a Player has been on a slaughter fest of newbies they will be negative with a red name like a target on their back. NO town or crowded would be safe for them.
If a player gets to milestones of say -25, 50, 100 the town constable could offer a reward for their head. (hero will be given a head token with "return to constable bob for your reward")
A good player could build +faction to spare, because there ARE times you just need to kill somebody, they intentionally blocking a passageway, they KS'ing you, they train you... "ya gotta woop a man's ass sometimes." Build enough positive player faction and this peace keeping perk of PVP will still be available to you without getting a target on your back.
I strongly support VOLUNTARY PvP.
I VEHEMENTLY oppose non-voluntary PvP.
When you allow players to initiate PvP at will and prohibit them from even having an option not to participate you've created a situation that guarantees abuse and dissatisfaction.
Like it or not there are those that revel in annoying others. Remember the High School bully?
These group can co-exist, but ONLY if the second group is not INVOLUNTARILY FORCED to interact with the first.
Other common examples of this in MMOs are the "Kill Stealer" and "Ninja Looter".
For meaningful PvP experiences, consider implementing dynamic objectives that encourage strategic gameplay beyond mere combat. Incorporate elements like territory control, resource management, and alliances, fostering a deeper level of engagement and collaboration among players. Additionally, introducing rewards tied to long-term progression or in-game impact can further enhance the significance of PvP encounters.