Quintra said:I would suggest that trial accounts have some sort of significant limitation on communication, whatever that may be. My point isn't what level of limitation the devs decide on.
My suggestion is that if a paying sub vouches for a trial account, that would unlock fully functional chat on that trial account. Accountability MUST be SEVERE though otherwise it wont work. For example, if a trial account is reported after having a paid sub vouch for them, that trial account is subject to being banned, and the paying sub shall face substantial penalties, maybe being muted for 24-72 hours at first, removing their ability to vouch for future trail accounts, ultimitely leading to being banned as well after numerous offenses.
The goal is to allow legitimate trial players to access full communication, and prevent bots from gaining that access. Either the spammers sub for a month anyway, or they risk a different paid account, either way it puts their money where their mouth is.
Hm that's actually pretty solid thinking outside the box. I'd be curious to see if that actually works. Do you know of any games out there that have used this model?
Quintra said:I would suggest that trial accounts have some sort of significant limitation on communication, whatever that may be. My point isn't what level of limitation the devs decide on.
My suggestion is that if a paying sub vouches for a trial account, that would unlock fully functional chat on that trial account. Accountability MUST be SEVERE though otherwise it wont work. For example, if a trial account is reported after having a paid sub vouch for them, that trial account is subject to being banned, and the paying sub shall face substantial penalties, maybe being muted for 24-72 hours at first, removing their ability to vouch for future trail accounts, ultimitely leading to being banned as well after numerous offenses.
The goal is to allow legitimate trial players to access full communication, and prevent bots from gaining that access. Either the spammers sub for a month anyway, or they risk a different paid account, either way it puts their money where their mouth is.
That's a pretty cool idea, though I doubt there would be any need to go farther than 1) Vouched trials can chat normally. 2) If that vouched trial screws up and gets mass reported, suspended, or banned, the voucher can no longer vouch. But honestly, even something as simple as that - ie linking accounts together through a system just to give trials something that they could *pay* for (adding incentive to do so), would seem to me to be a sticky coding situation, with the potential for bugs, misuse, the need for testing, and overall would seem like too much of an increase in workload for very little payoff.
As it stands, after reading people's comments, I'm still thinking some simple implementations like Bazgrim suggested would be enough to curb the problem of insincere trial account players, but it really comes down to just how popular the game becomes leading up to launch and just how many people are going to need to be "policed". I feel amping up the Guide & GM programs throughout beta in response to Pantheon's rising popularity is the best place to start, but that also leads to another pertinent question:
Chat limitations aside, in consideration of launch day server stability, crowding, login server bottlenecks, the need for policing the herds of miscreants, etc:
What do ya'll suppose might be the best time frame for allowing trials to begin playing?
Day 1 alongside paid accounts? <-- this one seems scary to me personally.
2 days, 2 weeks, a month after release?
You don't want to alienate people wanting to try the game (all of which are potential paying customers), especially in the most exciting time of the game's introduction to the world. But is there really any way to estimate how many trials there would be and subsequently the need for added hardware / servers / Guides / GM's. etc. to accomodate them?
VR should allow anyone planning on using trial accounts to register for them during beta to get a better idea of how many there are going to be. Who knows how many lurkers are lying in wait.
I hope that trial accounts do not come out until after the 5th year. (generate cash flow first)
They will not have any chat privilages at all, and have access to the max 10-20 ranges.
They have restricted options when trading, offering, and maybe stick to the newbie zones.
If the creators decide to change it later on, then i understand the need to survive for years to come.
Crazzie said:I hope that trial accounts do not come out until after the 5th year. (generate cash flow first)
The Dec stream pretty much stated it's going to launch with trial access giving game play up to a TBD level without buying the game so nobody feels screwed if they don't like the gameplay.
I think something really simple could be done. Trial accounts cant use numbers in any of their broadcast chats. So they could say in team, 1 add but in /occ they could not type /occ Selling gold, $10 US for 1000 gold. This would hinder them but not stop them. Just my two cents. I think trail accounts need to be able to occ LFG.
If you put too many restritions, that the gameplay is altered, then you may not retain trial players.
They need to be able to communicate with other players, it is a social game afterall. Maybe restrict what channels, but they need some way to ask questions, receive help, organize with other players, etc.
The game should be relatively slow to level so a max leve1 10 cap is probably fine, you should knwo by then if this game is interesting anough to play (Using the assumption a true newbie would not reach level 10 in an hour or even 1 average play session).
They should be flagged(possible different color nameplate) so veterans can see they are new and possibly reach out to them. There is a different attitude seeing a player that looks like he is wandering about aimlessly and one that is flagged as a trial account doing so. You may reach out quicker to the trial player with some pointers or advice. A vet may be more inclined to stop and throw some buffs thier way to make them feel welcome, or offer a helping hand. We all remember the first time some higher level player stopped and turned your 25hp into 300 at level 2.
I think a right click on name in chat is needed. For block and report. To many MMOs add that months after launch and by then most people are going nuts. Also, please make blocking a char, blocks their account not just the char. IMO if you don’t want to talk to someone its not the character, its the person.
I understand the desire to offer something free to get people interested that they will pay later - given the plethora of mobile device apps and the expectation that everything must be free to start. But I am of the opinion that it shouldn't be free. Go back to the old days of purchase the program and with it a subscription. People pay for a lot of things without a free sample - it's just that in the digital world that is turned on its head and it is freebie or nothing.
I think people underestimate the willingness of folks who are interested in playing this style of game to make an upfront purchase. Folks that have to be coerced into playing this game by having it freebie or nothing at all probably are of the exact mindset of "freebie or nothing at all" and won't stick around. I don't want to have an endless circle of free trial accounts (as limited as they may be) running around for the life of this game. It will drive me and others away from starting areas long after launch. Much like the boat of EQ of old, the starting areas where trial accounts are active will be something to be avoided.
People will try this game because of the buzz surrounding it. People will try this game because of recommendations of friends they trust and engage in on a regular basis. People will try this game because of the associations they have on a regular basis (school, forums, work, peer pressure). Heck, I know of three friends of mine whom I let try EQ on my account that ended up purchasing the game after an afternoon playing session with me looking over their shoulder - yes they had to start over when they purchased the game but that didn't drive them away. I don't think an upfront purchase will drive people away. Heck you could make it so that the first month of subscription could also be equal to 3 days of real time play (72 hours = just more than 2 hours per day which ever comes last. Those that absolutely love the game and are enthralled to be playing it get the full month. Those that can't devote that kind of time maybe end up taking a couple months to fulfill the initial 72 hours played.
Honestly, I don't want this game to try to appeal to as many people as possible who wouldn't normally be drawn to this game. It just seems to be the opposite of the tenents of this game. I don't think making it a freebie for a trial period will attract more people to the game that will stick around than not having a trial period. I think it will segregate the community to avoid starting areas where trial accounts are active - again the opposite intent of the tenents of the game.
That's just my opinion.
muscoby said:" "
I don't think there is ANY data to suggest that not having free trials = more subs than having them. I can only imagine it is the opposite, and any game I have played with trial accounts there has never been any problem with those players (gold spammers aside) or worse treatment of them. Letting people who are on the fence about the game get a little taste can only be in the best interest of VR and the community.
So many of the posts in this thread seem way too elitist, acting like free trial players are the scum of the earth to be wiped from underneath our feet as we enter the palace of Pantheon.
Other than spammers and trolls, most free trial players are just like everyone else. They need to be treated positively in order to get them to subscribe. More subscriptions is good for everyone.
VR has decided to offer a free trial. It's time to accept that they know their marketing plan better than any of us. If VR thought it would be better to make everyone pay up front, they would.
And I hope that when free trials members come into the game, you will all treat them with the respect they deserve and how you would like to be treated.
There is no reason to be negative to potential future subscribers. VR, with the help of the community, will take care of the abusers.
Players have no power to "take care of the abusers". The best we can do is close our eyes (ears?) and they continue to abuse everyone else. That doesn't seem like an effective solution to me, but then again, I am very small. :)
The abusers will outnumber the legit by somewhere between 2:1 to 5:1, if any new MMO with a free trial in the past 12 years is any indication. When new actual players are in the game on my server, I will treat them well. Until then, I will presume they're spamming gold sellers. Which, 90% of the time on a free trial account they are, in my personal experience.
Put simply, Beefake, there are too many spammers and trolls not to deal with them by default/proactively, otherwise it will impact legitimate players far more than the restrictions on a free trial server. As it is, regardless of how draconian VR is with their free trial environment, I am 100% certain they will have to be more restrictive as time goes on. Mark this post. Within 1 week of launch, they will have to tighten whatever restrictions they think are good enough, because they won't be good enough. That's how persistent and terrible it is, now.
Beefcake said:So many of the posts in this thread seem way too elitist, acting like free trial players are the scum of the earth to be wiped from underneath our feet as we enter the palace of Pantheon.
Other than spammers and trolls, most free trial players are just like everyone else. They need to be treated positively in order to get them to subscribe. More subscriptions is good for everyone.
VR has decided to offer a free trial. It's time to accept that they know their marketing plan better than any of us. If VR thought it would be better to make everyone pay up front, they would.
And I hope that when free trials members come into the game, you will all treat them with the respect they deserve and how you would like to be treated.
There is no reason to be negative to potential future subscribers. VR, with the help of the community, will take care of the abusers.
I could not agree more. Lets not assume the worst.
We will have plenty of time to test this to see what explotations exist but don't worry too much about it until you're in and playing and figuring out what is really going on. Anything before that is speculation.
I don't think anyone has shown any bias towards players using a free trial. All the bias is towards gold sellers using a free trial.
I, like others, feel like there are ways to allow players to participate in a free trial and at the same time hinder a gold seller from using a free trial to make money. There are many ways this could be handled.
Lets make sure we understand the difference for discussions sake.
vjek said:Players have no power to "take care of the abusers". The best we can do is close our eyes (ears?) and they continue to abuse everyone else. That doesn't seem like an effective solution to me, but then again, I am very small. :)
The abusers will outnumber the legit by somewhere between 2:1 to 5:1, if any new MMO with a free trial in the past 12 years is any indication. When new actual players are in the game on my server, I will treat them well. Until then, I will presume they're spamming gold sellers. Which, 90% of the time on a free trial account they are, in my personal experience.
Put simply, Beefake, there are too many spammers and trolls not to deal with them by default/proactively, otherwise it will impact legitimate players far more than the restrictions on a free trial server. As it is, regardless of how draconian VR is with their free trial environment, I am 100% certain they will have to be more restrictive as time goes on. Mark this post. Within 1 week of launch, they will have to tighten whatever restrictions they think are good enough, because they won't be good enough. That's how persistent and terrible it is, now.
Players have the power. It's called reporting.
I would hate to live assuming everyone is awful. I don't know how you do it.
My post was filled with the pronoun and verb phrase of "I think," and concluded with "in my opinion." There were no proclamations and declarations that would suggest any sort of conclusion based on a collection of data or a series of studies.
I have never participated in a free trial of a game (other than beta releases - not really a free trial but I did participate in something without having to pay for it). The only free trials I have engaged in have been productivity software where there happens to be watermarks all over the place and it doesn't take me very long to determine if the piece of software is something that addresses what it is I am after or not and if it is I pay for it. But that's productivity software, authoring software, all sorts of content creation software.
It's still an opinion and weighing in on the aspect of free trials is simply a statement of opinion not a declaration of any means or sorts. Don't lose things in context especially so far in advance of a game release.
Beefcake said:Players have the power. It's called reporting.
I would hate to live assuming everyone is awful. I don't know how you do it.
I wouldn't imagine they will have the manpower to investigate all the reports, let alone in a quick time. Gold spammers can churn out accounts faster than ever and blacklisting them does nothing as they hop on a new account every few minutes. In FFXIV I see nothing but buy gold websites in cities and get many many tells with site links.
Are the majority of trial users gold spammers? Who knows, but they are a real concern and addressing it beyond just reporting seems like a worthy discussion. Maybe they just get their own global trial chat that subbed players can jump into to help out if they so desire. Maybe they can't initiate tells to players but can respond to them. But there has to be a better way, espcially as reporting is like putting a bandaid on a cut, instead of working to stop the cuts from happening.
Perhaps put trial accounts on a separate server, and allow people to play for free up to level 5, level 5 being the cap on the trial server. If they decide to continue and pay for a subscription, they are given a server transfer token to transfer to the server of their choice. That way, when they come into the game at level5, the community knows that they at least have paid for a subscription, and the odds of them being gold farmers is much lower. If a new player pays for the game and a subscription at the outset, they would have access to all servers, and would not be forced into the trial server.
Rominian said:Perhaps put trial accounts on a separate server, and allow people to play for free up to level 5, level 5 being the cap on the trial server. If they decide to continue and pay for a subscription, they are given a server transfer token to transfer to the server of their choice. That way, when they come into the game at level5, the community knows that they at least have paid for a subscription, and the odds of them being gold farmers is much lower. If a new player pays for the game and a subscription at the outset, they would have access to all servers, and would not be forced into the trial server.
I am amazed that people here think trial accounts have to prove themselves before being allowed into the game.
This attitude will chase away any new prospect from the game.
You cannot treat potential customers like trash that must be cleansed before basking in your presence.
Rominian said:Perhaps put trial accounts on a separate server, and allow people to play for free up to level 5, level 5 being the cap on the trial server. If they decide to continue and pay for a subscription, they are given a server transfer token to transfer to the server of their choice. That way, when they come into the game at level5, the community knows that they at least have paid for a subscription, and the odds of them being gold farmers is much lower. If a new player pays for the game and a subscription at the outset, they would have access to all servers, and would not be forced into the trial server.
Yes but this would discourage a fair portion of potential subs due to not getting a real feel for the world and a sense of a healthy population.
Banning people to a trial only server until they prove themselves does not seem to match the FAQ:
Yes, a new player will be able to download and play Pantheon to a certain level for free, with a minimum of impediments. It's important to us that players, especially those who might not be familiar with classically spirited MMOs, be given a chance to acclimate and truly enjoy the game. That said, some restrictions on the free character may have to be made in order to avoid it being used by farmers, griefers, etc.
Beefcake said:
So many of the posts in this thread seem way too elitist, acting like free trial players are the scum of the earth to be wiped from underneath our feet as we enter the palace of Pantheon.
Besides, they've already said (as Kilsin & the FAQ has pointed out) that they WILL be implementing restrictions on trialers. My goal with this post was just to make sure those restrictions are discussed and receive the careful thought and effort they need.
Beefcake said:Rominian said:Perhaps put trial accounts on a separate server, and allow people to play for free up to level 5, level 5 being the cap on the trial server. If they decide to continue and pay for a subscription, they are given a server transfer token to transfer to the server of their choice. That way, when they come into the game at level5, the community knows that they at least have paid for a subscription, and the odds of them being gold farmers is much lower. If a new player pays for the game and a subscription at the outset, they would have access to all servers, and would not be forced into the trial server.
I am amazed that people here think trial accounts have to prove themselves before being allowed into the game.
This attitude will chase away any new prospect from the game.
You cannot treat potential customers like trash that must be cleansed before basking in your presence.
This is, frankly, offensive to me, as I am far from someone who thinks another player needs to be "cleansed to bask in my presence." My suggestion is a possible way to reduce the number of gold farmers that enter the game in general, that is all, and actually is what I had assumed might be put in place by VR when they suggested making part of the game free to play. That is what this whole thread is about, just suggestions and ideas for dealing with the very thing that, I think anyway, we all despise. How it is implemented is up to VR, and I will be happy with any way in which they handle things.