For me, chat boxes and typing ruins immersion. If I have to stop what I am doing to read/type in a chat box, quest text, or anything like that, it ends immersion.
If you are standing next to someone, do you send them a text or do you talk to them? I think the latter provides more immersion. Of course, my kids my disagree.
For me, voice chat and npc voice overs are the only way to go.
When i played a WOW on a RP server wtih a RP guild, we all voiced in character. I was big oel Cow, so i spoke low and deep. We discussed tactics, and i would always not understand them becasue the raid leaader spoke to fast. I think that many of you should open yourselves up to an opprotunity to "immerse" yourself beyond your keyboard for MMO. I had different voices for my D&D characters when i played Tabletop. I found it silly that i would have to type in an OOC channel. If i just spoke my mind playing in my character centric fashion all was really great. It takes a dedicated group/small guild to accomplish this, but it was so worth playing. yes...yes my girlfriend looked at me really funny, but that is how i played.
But enjoy as you see fit for yourself. Just dont limit yourselfs.
Nikua
Manouk said:Dragon naturally speaking?, with potential "G****mn you auto correct" humorous texts in game ?
This actually raises a good point. I think it's difficult to take the stance of voice chat ruining immersion in a game if you're not also advocating for RPing the majority of the time. Seeing "lol"s and tons of mispellings and text abbreviations etc. in game has to be pretty immersion breaking...
I will use it when required...but given past experiences of "human behaviour" I'll keep that to just when required, unless chatting with friends. I cut my teeth so to speak on text communication. I too experienced the general chat in Wow and Rift..wasn't impressed to be honest. :) Hopefully the trollishness of some can be kept to a minimum with an ignore feature. hehe
Pyye said: So let's be careful not to stereotype people because they don't like a modern feature, I am not a role player. However, I am a BIG believer that we should play the game as it is intended. Devs put in sounds and features in for a reason and I want to fully experience the moment with no outside distractions. As far as not willing to change or open to change? I do it every single day in my job and am damn good at it... I am afraid that I might be stuck in a modern era and will have to accept that in order to advance in an MMO game, it will require voice chat coordination in groups / raids. Which to me is a damn shame that this has become the norm. Most gamers I watch on Twitch today have external music playing over their game. Some are also talking in voice chat and the majority pay attention to chat so they can interact. In my opinion, all things that pull their attention away from truly immersing themselves inside the game. I think I just need to accept that modern times are different, and what I need to be fully immersed in a game are features or practices that are simply not implemented by the majority of gamers in today's world.
Unfortunately, you're probably correct about being stuck in an era where voice chat will be required for certain content. I'm not sure if you have a bigger issue with talking in voice chat, listening in, or both. If it's just talking, there might be opportunities for you to still group/raid without needing to talk, it just depends on the people you are playing with. If talking is the issue, I would recommend that you play a DPS class. Tank/Healer/Control communication is extremely important due to the nature of their roles. DPS can be equally as important in certain situations, but not quite as consistently as with other roles.
If your issue is that you don't want to listen in on voice chat, that's an entirely different animal. I can tell you now that it would most likely become a big issue particularly with any serious progression guild. As someone with massive raid leading experience, I can tell you that players not being able to listen in voice would not be acceptable. If it's just a rare occassion such as a broken mic, it's not a big deal, the guild would just be on your tail about replacing it as soon as possible. But if you couldn't listen in on voice just because it was something that you didn't like to do, you wouldn't be able to make the cut. It wouldn't be anything personal ... but when a guild is serious about progression, they will make an effort to use every tool in their disposal to overcome a challenge.
One person not being able to adjust/adapt mid-combat could cost the entire raid a wipe. If that one person also happens to be the only player that isn't in voice chat ... there is an obvious correlation, and that one player would end up being replaced. If the person was in voice chat, there would be some leniency. We would chalk it up as a mistake and use it as a learning experience, hoping to avoid that same mistake on the next pull. Repeat offenders might have an issue on their hands if they demonstrate an inability to fulfill their role and follow directions. Ultimately though, if I had to choose, I'd rather work with the guy who is capable of listening in voice and try to help them figure out a way to perform at the highest level. I wouldn't waste my time on someone that had no intention of being able to consistently listen in on voice, as it would be an injustice to all of the other raid members that are doing what is necessary to progress.
Again, none of this would be personal. This type of scenario would probably never come into fruition anyway because progression guilds have recruitment standards that would have prevented all of it in the first place. I really do hope that you find other players who share similar values to you and that you can enjoy your experience with the game. I have spent so much time on the headset in my raiding days that anymore, I only use it when necessary. Once content is on farm status, the voice requirements would be waived as long as things don't get too sloppy or out of hand. As far as levling up goes, I probably won't use voice a single time. The beginning stages of a game have always been some of my favorite memories. These are times where I will want to be fully immersed into game music, my surroundings, and the sense of danger. It's only when I get to the absolute hardest content that using voice will become the norm ... and sadly, I do kinda agree that it's unfortunate. I am really starting to wonder if that allure I so desperately crave from my EQOA/FFXI experiences were tied into the lack of voice chat. The game felt so much more alive back then ... but was that just me looking through ruby glasses, overwhelmed by the concept of this "new world" I was immersed in? It's tough to gauge that because when I look back at some of the games I played back then that I have such fond memories of ... it's hard to imagine them being as fun now, as they once were.
This became extremely obvious when I played on the timelocked EQ2 server. The game was nothing like I remembered. It did not taint my previous experiences with the game however because the game had evolved dramatically. I have often debated on playing on P1999 or the Phinigel (sp?) server I see so many people talk about with EQ1. I've opted not to, and have instead become fully vested into the success of Pantheon. I'm really banking on being able to enjoy that "original" MMO experience again ... and I know I'm just one of many. That's why I think Pantheon has so much potential. To be honest I'm really shocked that they haven't received more funding for the game. It amazes me that somehow this robust community hasn't been able to locate contacts that could give this game the funding/support that it deserves. Not an "investor" per se, but a true fan of the genre who is in a position to help this become a reality. I've talked with my wife many times about this, and if we were in a position to make a massive donation to VR, it would get done. And not for my own personal satisfaction, but what it would mean to all of the other people out there that share similar values to mine. That's one of the main reasons I spend so much time on this forum to try and create ideas that could help improve the game. I like to think of myself as a conceptual consultant of sorts and the barrier to entry of making tangible progress in that respect has been a little disheartening. If I had 10k to drop on this game and put me in a position to help design a dungeon or raid, I feel that I would be able to better demonstrate my value in in regards to what I could bring to the table. Unfortunately that's been a tough sell to my wife considering regular life responsibilities such as family, mortgage, and running a business.
Am I missing something? I can take it or leave it since it does mess with immersion but it also is pretty much essential for complex raids, but ...
Why waste dev resources on a crowd funded game that already cannot do everything it wants to, unless you are planning on offering something like voice masking or guild control over usage options that would *require* the voice chatting system to be part of the game.
There are already well-known and very good voice chat programs that are easy to setup a server for and use clientsm and we have all been using them for years and years now.
redgiant said:Am I missing something? I can take it or leave it since it does mess with immersion but it also is pretty much essential for complex raids, but ...
Why waste dev resources on a crowd funded game that already cannot do everything it wants to, unless you are planning on offering something like voice masking or guild control over usage options that would *require* the voice chatting system to be part of the game.
There are already well-known and very good voice chat programs that are easy to setup a server for and use clientsm and we have all been using them for years and years now.
Personally, I think it's a great idea to have an in-game voice option. The problem with using outside voice providers is that there are just TOO many options. I remember when I played FFXIV for a bit and over the course of 6 different groups, every single one of them wanted to use a different voice system. It's a real pain having to download every program known to mankind and getting them all set up. I think it would be a much more rewarding experience to just have it already established in the game. As far as resources go, I think they are making the right decision. They aren't rushing to push the game out and something like this is a worthwhile feature. I want to spend my time immersed in the game, not accomodating to a new voice system every time I join a new group. I think it's such an issue that most of the time a lot of people just decide to skip out on joining voice altogether. I know I have, plenty of times.
I'm definitely willing to use voice for raiding. I've been doing that since Molten Core in WoW. I do admit that the discussions can often be very enjoyable. Still, I hate wearing a headset and I prefer to use text chat for all other parts of the game. It's actually kind of a bummer to miss out on some interesting conversations because people refuse to type, but I accept that as the cost of being free from my headset. Like Pyye said, to me it's like getting deep in a massive fantasy novel. When there's a major release, I'm basically shut up in my house until I've finished reading. I know some people will say that it's an MMO. Why play an MMO if I want solitude? I'll just say that I don't need to hear voices to enjoy the contributions of others and allow them to help make the game world real.
That said, I think some of the features of integrated voice are pretty neat. If the proximity effects are done right, it can be very cool for a group of friends. It's not going to matter much to me if PRF doesn't have it, but I do appreciate the value It can hold for people.
Bazgrim said:So basically, the way I look at it, it just comes down to: do you want voice chat detracting from ambient sound effects/music? Or would you rather typing/reading text to detract from the scenery and action?
Basically. Personal preference, I reckon. For me, I'm already using my keyboard and while on some level I'm aware that I'm sitting at a computer and typing things rather than actually running around in a fantasy world, I have long since gotten used to that. The headset, however, is still a source of distraction and discomfort for me.
Shucklighter said:Bazgrim said:So basically, the way I look at it, it just comes down to: do you want voice chat detracting from ambient sound effects/music? Or would you rather typing/reading text to detract from the scenery and action?
Basically. Personal preference, I reckon. For me, I'm already using my keyboard and while on some level I'm aware that I'm sitting at a computer and typing things rather than actually running around in a fantasy world, I have long since gotten used to that. The headset, however, is still a source of distraction and discomfort for me.
And that's just it - it just takes some getting used to. I remember it being awkward at first too, but over time it just became second nature. And I'm glad I did, because it's overall more enjoyable. So I would encourage everyone to at least give it due diligence and try it.
I agree with Baz on this one.
Once you are use to it , going back to typing out instructions is hard.
Voice is more organized , faster and alot easier IMO. It does come down to personal choice of course.
I think it is a fair summary that some of us strongly prefer avoiding voice chat, some of us (a larger group most likely) like it and some of us can take it or leave it.
I always look for guilds that do NOT use it much, at least outside of raids. There are always some guilds like that and in Pantheon with its appeal to traditionalists I don't doubt that I can find some. Silly as it may sound to some, the modern ubiquity of voice chat is one reason I avoid raiding. I would rather level up "alts" and craft, enyoying the ambiance and typing to communicate. To each his/her own.
oneADseven said: There is a time and place for both. One issue I run into when using a headset is that I can't communicate with people around me in real life. That causes wife aggro, which is never a good thing. There are plenty of times where it is perfectly okay but sometimes I don't want to be 100% immersed so as not to take away from things going on in the real world. If it's really late at night then sure, bring on full blown immersion. Other times ... a keyboard is ideal. Overall voice chat is something that isn't going to go away. It's a tool that can be used for players to more effectively communicate when split second decisions are important, and thats when I will make sure to utilize it. Some people may also want to use it just for chatting purposes ... personally I would only use voice sparingly in that regard. I won't be joining voice just to chit chat all the time because it takes away from the fantasy experience I crave and when people start talking about their jobs, family, politics, etc ... eh, it's just not ideal for my tastes.
Oh yeah, Need to avoid Wife Aggro. Sometimes wife aggro can happen because of little kids, too.
This may be blasphemous in a MMO but if wife aggro is present there could potentially be a group wipe and lots of corpse recoveries. At a minimum I'll need to leave (probably die and figure out a corpse recovery at some later point when there is no more aggro). It's something I must contend with when playing a MMO that many others do not need to contend with. Wife aggro doesn't always happen and is few and far between. But when it happens her stare can quickly go from "wary" to "threatening" to "enraged."
Kilsin said:Since it is optional and only for groups, raids and guilds, it shouldn't have any affect on immersion, if you choose to use it then hopefully you enjoy the added social features we have included and if not then your ears can enjoy the sounds of Pantheon while your fingers do the typing, it really shouldn't be an issue. ;)
If I were to answer the question posed in the subject line: Potentially, yes. However, with Kilsin's answer, it sounds like people won't have to worry about proximity open-world voice chat (I think Guild Wars 2 offers that). You have to opt-in to voice chat so people who care deeply about immersion will not have to worry.
But again, I'm disheartened by the absolutes people are stating in this conversation. Not everyone can type 50 words per minute. I know uber gamers who have hunt-and-peck typing skills. And macros are fine, but you can't have macros set up for every phrase that may come up in the throes of battle, from "on your left, three mobs, one's a healer" to "emergency AFK ... my puppy just peed on the rug." There just aren't enough buttons on a keyboard.
redgiant said:Am I missing something? I can take it or leave it since it does mess with immersion but it also is pretty much essential for complex raids, but ...
Why waste dev resources on a crowd funded game that already cannot do everything it wants to, unless you are planning on offering something like voice masking or guild control over usage options that would *require* the voice chatting system to be part of the game.
There are already well-known and very good voice chat programs that are easy to setup a server for and use clientsm and we have all been using them for years and years now.
To answer your question, I bring you Kilsin:
Kilsin said:/facepalm
It isn't wasted resources, please stop using that term, VOIP falls under sound which is a completely different team to world builders, programmers etc. it doesn't take away from anything, it only adds more to the game, the VOIP will most likely be in group, raid and guild situations but will be optional, if you don't want it, turn it off, it is that simple.
Implementing a system like this isn't in exchange for something else, we don't sit around a table and say "VOIP sounds good, let's roll with it", "Oh wait, now we have to remove trees and quests..." it just doesn't work like that but posting that it is a wasted resource immediately puts people on the aggressive side of the fence to protect other things in the game from being "forgotten about" or removed and it is completely false. :)
If you don't like something that we implement in-game, you will most likely be able to toggle or turn it off but it is not a "waste of resources" as there will be a lot of people who will use it and enjoy it. :)
Iksar said:redgiant said:Am I missing something? I can take it or leave it since it does mess with immersion but it also is pretty much essential for complex raids, but ...
Why waste dev resources on a crowd funded game that already cannot do everything it wants to, unless you are planning on offering something like voice masking or guild control over usage options that would *require* the voice chatting system to be part of the game.
There are already well-known and very good voice chat programs that are easy to setup a server for and use clientsm and we have all been using them for years and years now.
To answer your question, I bring you Kilsin:
Kilsin said:/facepalm
It isn't wasted resources, please stop using that term, VOIP falls under sound which is a completely different team to world builders, programmers etc. it doesn't take away from anything, it only adds more to the game, the VOIP will most likely be in group, raid and guild situations but will be optional, if you don't want it, turn it off, it is that simple.
Implementing a system like this isn't in exchange for something else, we don't sit around a table and say "VOIP sounds good, let's roll with it", "Oh wait, now we have to remove trees and quests..." it just doesn't work like that but posting that it is a wasted resource immediately puts people on the aggressive side of the fence to protect other things in the game from being "forgotten about" or removed and it is completely false. :)
If you don't like something that we implement in-game, you will most likely be able to toggle or turn it off but it is not a "waste of resources" as there will be a lot of people who will use it and enjoy it. :)
Haha thank you for doing this Iksar.
I'm tempted to start a thread that's just terms people throw around to sound smart without actually knowing what they mean. Like "immersion," "dev resources," etc. The forums are cluttered with hilarious misuses of terms.
That word... I don't think it means what you think it means lol
