I was thinking about the static AoE that was shown on the stream, and how it appeared that they only had 2 options - brute heal, or wear a quested ring, and suddenly I remembered DDO.
The neat thing that DDO does about their environments - filled with traps/static AoE's/monster closets - etc, is that have a lot of tools to deal with them.
1. Break Enchanment
2. Cancel Majic
3. Protection from the elements
4 Stoneskin
5 Protection against evil
6. Deathward
The list goes on and on with all the different tricks that can be used to ATTEMPT (it IS DnD, still could fail a save) to bypass an obstacle like the "environment" shown on the stream.
My concern is this - you guys mentioned only allowing a limited toolset (X number of skill/spell gems, I get it), so are options going be as binary as heal through it OR "magic bullet?"
By magic bullet I mean - special ring, incantation, or mcguffin specifically designed for that barrier.
I am hoping there is latitude in problem solving, and crunchy under-the-hood DND-like rules. The original EQ was fun, but was really very shallow in that regard.
Additionally, I hope you guys put in some static AoE stuff. I remember how much fun it was to lay down Glitterdust, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, Incendiary Cloud cast Greater Invis on myself and dance through the disco!
As long as we avoid random mechanics I don't care. Dice rolls are not good for things like this.
It'd be infuriating to fail a check 3 times in a row for no reason while someone else passes through on the first try just due to sheer luck. Randomness unfairly punishes players.
I'd rather fail due to my own shortcomings than a failed dice roll.
I believe the idea is to be a bit more nuanced that a 'simple' All/nothing damage/debuff. From what I have got from listening to the Twitch talk plus what I have inferred from that, earlier streams and other threads, plus a bit of common sense .... I 'guesstimate' the following :
Atmosphere types :
A. Frigid, (Cold effects, numbness, frostbite)
B. Scorching, (Heat effects, exhaustion, burns)
C. Toxic, (Poison effects, nerve damage, organ failure)
D. Anaerobic, (Lack of air, think altitude, disorientation, hypoxia)
E. Pressure, (Pressure effects, reduced ambulation, crushing effects)
F. Wind Shear (High velocity impact, loss of stability, blindness)
Atmosphere levels :
Tier I (Approx Levels under 13): Mild Environmental penalties only
Frigid Primary = weapon speed debuff, movement speed debuff
Frigid Secondary = None
Frigid Extras = None
Tier II (Approx Levels 13-24) : Moderate Environmental penalties + small damage/drain
Frigid Primary = weapon/movement/casting speed debuff
Frigid Secondary = small frost damage (hp loss)
Frigid Extras = None
Tier III (Approx Levels 25-35) : Significant Environmental penalties + medium damage/drain
Frigid Primary = weapon/movement/casting speed debuff,
Frigid Secondary = small-medium frost damage (hp loss)
Frigid Extras = small chance of slipping (falling)
Tier IV (Approx Levels 36-45) : Severe Environmental penalties + high damage/drain
Frigid Primary = weapon/movement/casting speed debuff
Frigid Secondary = Moderate+ frost damage (hp loss)
Frigid Extras = Moderate chance slipping / small fumble chance
Tier V (Approx Levels 46+) : Extreme Environmental penalties + severe damage/drain
Frigid Primary = weapon/movement/casting speed debuff
Frigid Secondary = Larger frost damage (hp loss)
Frigid Extras = Moderate chance slipping / small fumble chance
Atmosphere Mitigation:
In my head, I see 'acclimation points' If a Tier I needs 10 points to fully acclimate, then a player with '5 points' might only take a lower proportion of the damage/effects of being inside that atmosphere. Higher atmospheres would have increasingly higher numbers of points. Eg, Tier-II may need 20 pts, Tier-III 50 points, Tier IV 100 and Tier-V some 250 points!!
1. Mitigation by player ('Acclimation')
The stream, and other sources, seem to indicate that some items (and perhaps just surviving within these areas for a certain period) will allow the player to generate a 'level of acclimation' within their body. It seems likely that some items could have their essence incorporated into your body (or a portion thereof). How much, and whether some races get equal levels of benefit from a given item is debateable, but the lore of gnomes suggests, for example, that they might gain more benefit than some race types that have stronger self affinity (i.e. an ogre/trolls innate regen would seek to reduce the effect of an external influence, even a beneficial one).
2. Mitigation by items (Direct reduction/avoidance)
This would cover (quested, perhaps even crafted) items that allow teh effects of the atmosphere to be mitigated or even completely voided. These items are, presumably, worn. It seems likely that not all items would allow complete avoidance, but might instead be compared to an artificial 'acclimation' effect while worn.
An example of lesser mitigation for a Frigid atmosphere would be a crafter 'adding' a specific 'cloak' or material onto a piece of armour to make it a 'weather proofed' piece of armour. It would be unlikely to mitigate all effects, but high end gear so worked (with equivalent higfher crafting materials) would make entering lower tier atmospheres of that type almost trivial.
In the Stream example, the 'Ring of Anchors' might offer 35 points of acclimation. This would be enough to render you inpervious to a Tier-II atmosphere of that type.
TL;DR : I Suggest it will not be as simple as 'take full dmg unless you have a special item'.
I'm with you on this one Martell, I really hope they allow us to get creative with our solutions to environments and such.
Also I really really hope that they have a plan in mind to deal with the item creep that will occur when we have to lug around gear for each specific challange. I have no issue with the inventory system as presented in the streams, but would strongly request that they build in some sort of gear set system that allows us to change things on the fly for a given circumstance. I would be more than happy to suspend my disbelief and not quesion if, for example, each character had a trunk on a seperate tab for equipment that is used situationally and was able to assign gear sets from within said trunk. They wouldnt have to be key bound, I would be happy with buttons along the top or side of the trunk that could be clicked for efficient gear swaps. I am sure they would do a much better job of envisioning and implementing this than I would but you get my idea.
Managing inventory is pure drudgery. I hope they don't make it more of a chore than it needs to be for the sake of realism.
Concur. Pretty much every MMO on the market has a built-in system to allow you to save and hot swap custom gear sets. If environmental gear is to be pivotal to Pantheon gameplay, I'd say it's a requirement. It's a nice, modern feature that doesn't in any way infringe on the tenets of the game.
kelenin said:Vanguard had a macro command you could use that allowed you to swap gear out, like '/wear "Big Bad Sword" secondaryhand', and then you could build a macro button on your button bar that allowed you to swap out multiple items.
Well, if they would allow building macros then it wouldn't compromise the game further to build in a drag and drop system to do the same thing. Having to constantly alter macros as my gear changes seems like more drudgery to me. Would love to see this be one of those areas where they embrace a more modern approach.
I agree, but I still like macros :)
As far as the environments are concerned, I agree that they seam to me like nothing but a static AoE over a region. But then again, that's what an environment is in RL when it comes to areas like icey caverns, tundras, deserts and such. Adding in ones that come from localized effects (like we saw in the stream) is kinda cool. I'm hoping we'll see more information about them in the near future. It would also be nice if they could somehow tie in the perception system to it, for example, when you're approaching a localized area like we saw in the stream, if your perception is high enough you get a message stating that something about the area ahead looks wierd, like "The area surrounding this monolith pulses with an ancient magic" or something.
Nice constructive post, Martell.
I don't know if I would have made a direct comparison to AoE's in DDO, but I do see what you mean. I agree that there should a degree of problem-solving involved when navigating environments. As such, there should be a variety of viable tools and solutions. I'm choosing to believe that there is more to the atmosphere system than the basic examples we have been shown. And I agree with Liav that there should be basically no RNG involved.
***I would like to try to differentiate one very important thing though. I'm fairly certain that ATMOSPHERES and CLIMATES are not the same thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but climates cover a much wider area, usually an entire zone or a large portion of a zone. These are the Frigid, Scorching, Anaerobic, etc.
Atmospheres, however, are much smaller. In the stream, we saw a purple sphere surrounding some sort of crystal and if you walked inside that radius, you would take hits to stats and health. Therefore, I don't think the steps taken to get acclimated to climates would not be the same as countering atmospheres. It seems like climates are more related to weather, while atmospheres are magically-created static area of effect. We already know that Druids will have the ability to change the climate of a region. That gets me really excited. Likewise, I would like to see powerful Wizards or Enchanters be able to dispel or manipulate the magical atmospheres and such.
In addition to environments giving standard debuffs, I'd like to see things like "shrinking all characters by 50%" or perhaps some kind of bubble/trap that your party is locked within for a certain amount of time...
Maybe if you're attuned to a certain mana type you "turn into" an enemy so that you can sneak through without being attacked?
Or perhaps you get ported to another area of the zone if you stay in the environment too long...
Or you're all turned into Orcs...
Or you're all turned into the opposite gender.. I think there could be some funny effects and or 'flavor' that sometimes occur :)
Sloppyg said:In addition to environments giving standard debuffs, I'd like to see things like "shrinking all characters by 50%" or perhaps some kind of bubble/trap that your party is locked within for a certain amount of time...
Maybe if you're attuned to a certain mana type you "turn into" an enemy so that you can sneak through without being attacked?
Or perhaps you get ported to another area of the zone if you stay in the environment too long...
Or you're all turned into Orcs...
Or you're all turned into the opposite gender.. I think there could be some funny effects and or 'flavor' that sometimes occur :)
Yeah the possibilities are endless. I trust that there will be a lot more than just the basic damage/weakness auras that we have seen so far.