Lets keep it PG dorotea :) I understand tempers are flaring on this thread for some reason but still no need to get vulgar and yes I know it can be used as someones name, but the reference being used isn't someones name. Plus you don't want the hand of Kilsin coming down on you ! ;P
I'm just gonna perhaps naively hope that Brad's vision of a game where the entire levelling experience is relevant holds true. Otherwise, power levelling is probably ok as long as high levels can't just train whole zones to level poeple. Over the long term it means that an outside healer becomes an expected part of games but I think that would happen in some way regardless.
Sorry I honestly had never intended something vulgar. I read the language I quoted as "be an unpleasant nasty person" far too many of which I have had the misfortune of playing with and responded accordingly. Looking back I see that I should have phrased my comment in a different way that didn't imply vulgarity.
Nothing in this thread has gotten me even slightly annoyed but I find the thought that playing with unpleasant people is a good thing and to be encouraged highly antithical to my own preferences and worthy of immediate disagreement. So immediate that I didn't even think about the language I used (blush).
Wow, what a thread. If all the demagoguery was removed; it would be so much shorter... and better. Instead of adding my own thoughts to the heap, I will attempt to direct the discussion in the, perhaps vain, hope of improving our collective efficiency. As has already been stated, the main problem on this thread is that the meaning of "power leveling" is nebulous. What does, and does not qualify means different things to different people. Without an agreed upon definition, we end up with 8 pages that are all over the map. We should start by discussing the many ways that this question can be broken down. We should then break this thread into several new threads, with each one addressing one of those aspects. At the appropriate time, our resident dream crusher can lock this tread. I will start out the list of suggestions for break away threads using my experience playing EQ as a model:
For all of the questions in our list we must consider:
I have tried not to load the questions in my list. Please add things that I have missed. We need to get some better traction on this issue if we want to get anywhere.
-edit for grammar and spelling
BeaverBiscuit said:You guys are absolutely right. All these stupid rules. why can't I have a button that says "level up from 1-60 in 30 seconds"...I want it and rules suck. I can't even pay some chinese kid in a sweatshop money to level my character up for me because that's considered bad! well it doesnt hurt you so why do you care? I want Pantheon for free too...With free food, shelter, and a good computer to best enjoy the game. But everyone insists I buy these things! What happened to "sandbox" and "open world"?
Edit: the above is said in complete jest to make a point that rules are, in fact, necessary.
Can we please accept that the game needs to figure out exactly where to draw lines (Is powerleveling unfair to regular levelers or not?) rather than deciding all rules limit players and are therefor bad?
LOL aww...no powerleveling to 50 first day of early access? :D (shades of SWTOR) 5 minutes of fame and then have to wait for everyone else to catch up. :P I want a game that I can take my time doing the things I want to do, instead of being pushed from behind by whatever guild I am in..to be an overachiever to please them I'll be paying the subscription...not them. :P And if that doesn't please people around me? That's okay pretty independent, long-time gamer...not a problem. :D As to powerlevelling...we've all seen the gold farmer/bot groups that do this for real money.. people who are powerlevelled straight to level cap, don't know their class, are basically newbies in grown up armor. And the rest of us have to put up with them. I say mentoring is fine...but cap how many levels this can be done. After say level 20, people should have the know-how to work their own character capably. Levelling up should be a learning curve, it shouldn't be an easy pass go collect 200 dollars.
The struggle is real. When I am actively gaming, such as seriously leveling and raiding several nights a week, I have to take my wife to her favorite Japanese Steak House every Sunday.
Its how I bribe her to let me play as much as I want and to encourage her to play with me more than she would normally.
Beefcake said:The struggle is real. When I am actively gaming, such as seriously leveling and raiding several nights a week, I have to take my wife to her favorite Japanese Steak House every Sunday.
Its how I bribe her to let me play as much as I want and to encourage her to play with me more than she would normally.
/slaps forehead! Now why didn't I think of that...hehe
Beefcake said:Since most gear is tradable, twinkling will be rampant. But, I am actually in favor of this. I usually WANT to tank, but often my utiliy toons are needed in a group, so I get stuck playing them. But that's OK, since my utilit toon can get enough items to gear up my tank.
This definitely encourages people with alts to think about the guild first and play what the raid needs, while still getting progression on the toons they want to gear up.
I *twinkle* all the time and I don't have any gear. :P (kidding) I have never powerlevelled any of my characters, did the work required, including learning what each class does, visiting the starter cities (if there were any) ...but to each their own. I find I have a better understanding of the game and limits of classes or races. Plus I like to explore the world and such. My characters are extensions of myself..not treated as anything but. I play the class I want not because I am expected to or told to...but because I want to. Guess I'm a bit rebellious that way. Hence why I'll never again join a "hardcore" guild not even by mistake. :P I'm not much of a follower I guess.
One of my favorite experiences was being able to buff lower level players and help them out as I was passing through, especially when you make it sort of an event...all sorts of people coming by for free buffs. While it may be powerlevel'ish, it's also encouraging community interaction...wihch is SUPER important for a healthy community. In fact, some of my strongest friendships from EverQuest was from higher level people coming through and buffing. I kept in touch, and as I "grew up" in levels, I finally was able to join them. At that point, I'd often go back to newbie areas and help buff people.
RpTheHotrod said:One of my favorite experiences was being able to buff lower level players and help them out as I was passing through, especially when you make it sort of an event...all sorts of people coming by for free buffs. While it may be powerlevel'ish, it's also encouraging community interaction...wihch is SUPER important for a healthy community. In fact, some of my strongest friendships from EverQuest was from higher level people coming through and buffing. I kept in touch, and as I "grew up" in levels, I finally was able to join them. At that point, I'd often go back to newbie areas and help buff people.
My feelings on this subject are really strong. This is one scenerio that can make or break a game for me to continue playing. I am not bitter when I see some one being power leveled or quad kiting or swarm kiting. When you take away options you take away choice. The person who has spent hours upon hours to level their charact to max deserves to play the way they want to. If they decide to go help a friend or guildmate or just some random person because they feel like it is keeping them in the game and still playing. I can not say this enough but EQ did it right. Take as much as you can from it and mix it with your great ideas we already seen and I promise that pantheon will be just as epic and addicting.
Usually the point of any kind of power leveling is to skip over content / save time, or to catch someone up to their friends.
1. skip content / save time - should not be a desired outcome in game design.
2. catch up with friends - this will be answered with higher level players being able to downgrade their level temporarily to play with their lower level friends.
Higher levels being allowed to lower their level to help people makes the balance of "power leveling" rules much easier because there is never an argument that you "can't" help you friends due to a level range constraint.
"Fast leveling" makes a game top heavy and largely empty in low-mid zones very quickly, but i believe Pantheon plans to allow the top group to help their friends in a way that goes with the natural flow of the leveling process.
You/we can do what the game devs let you do, which is what we are here to discuss.
Everyone here will be paying their own subs just the same. It's not your money, it is equally "our" money.
But what is far more important than how much we have and what we invest is that which is healthy for the game, the community, and the compromises in our varying visions of what should be.
Power leveling is fine. Some people could care less about the journey.
For my first few characters, I will definitely smell every rose before I slowly depetal it and crush the stem into a gnomes face.
But, after that, especially if I progeny through every class (assuming it works like I think it will), I will be power leveling and twinking through the 4th - 11th incarnation.
@Beefcake
Perhaps the best compromise then would be to still prevent power leveling, but bring on varying degrees of exp bonus to the 2nd, 3rd, Nth incarnations.
Giving you your initial rose smelling, and faster incarnated leveling without breaking down the walls for large scale mass power leveling across the board.
Best of both worlds?
Nephretiti said:See? THIS is what happens when you give Necromancers forums access....
This is what happens when you don't allow new threads to be created. Something pops up that has a history of 8 pages that no one really wants to read thru for the first time, or read again to refresh their memory for the Nth time on what the hell was said.
I'm actually coming to the conclusion that disallowing new threads on old topics stifles discussion. Which is in part why only a handful of threads get any updates over the course of a week.
Ahaha! Another one that slipped through the cracks :)
We have answered this question folks, we have discussed it throughout many closed threads, the topic has been exhausted and is now no longer up for discussion, we will be interested in getting everyone's feedback on our systems, mechanics and features once testing starts, until then, I will go ahead and close this thread, please do not create any more on this subject.