Amris said:You can only push people so far before they will just throw in the towel. Making the game totally unplayable unless someone will rescue you will just make people quit. It's that simple, and there's no way to get around it.
Adding depth and challenge is not pushing people.
last few years many have thrown in the towel for MMO's ,because they lack depth ,interaction, flavour,purpose
and fail to excite people for longer than a few weeks often
Challenge does not make a game unplayable.
As is mentioned in the tenets;
-An understanding that a truly challenging game is truly rewarding.-
-An expectation that with greater risk will come greater reward.-
-Positive actions should be rewarded.Apathy or lack of action should not be rewarded with bonuses-
-A belief that the greatest sense of accomplishment comes when it is shared - and earned.-
There is a lot in the name rise of the fallen.
It might be the only MMO about to release that gives hope that the genre will be rescued.
Many have already thrown the towel in the ring
Numerous MMOs I played too,and MMOs have been pushing people too far (away from each other ).
It is no longer about meaningful contact.They blaze through content,ignore the players around them most often
because what they believe
-The game starts at endgame- nonsense .
They forget to spend meaninful time ingame,with the community.They forget to enjoy the content.
Modern MMOs have failed to create the drive for player to embrace that community around them.
The endgame loot means nothing without the journey and that is why we keep getting jaded wondering -is this it?
The endgame loot on itself means nothing if there is no involvement for the rest(with the world,the people in it etc)
They have failed to create a refreshing experience where players are more involved,as should be in a multiplayer.
If encouraging socialization and involvement is seen as pushing people too far to you ,then we can't agree no.Different strokes for different folks.
Fluffy said:Numerous MMOs I played too,and MMOs have been pushing people too far (away from each other ).
It is no longer about meaningful contact.They blaze through content,ignore the players around them most often
because what they believe
-The game starts at endgame- nonsense .
They forget to spend meaninful time ingame,with the community.They forget to enjoy the content.
Modern MMOs have failed to create the drive for player to embrace that community around them.
The endgame loot means nothing without the journey and that is why we keep getting jaded wondering -is this it?
The endgame loot on itself means nothing if there is no involvement for the rest(with the world,the people in it etc)
They have failed to create a refreshing experience where players are more involved,as should be in a multiplayer.
If encouraging socialization and involvement is seen as pushing people too far to you ,then we can't agree no.Different strokes for different folks.
These games are whatever the players themselves make of them, even the theme parks like WoW. I know plenty of people who made tons of social contacts and were very involved with people all across the servers who loved it. I also know those who are less social and only enjoy it as a means to an end, enjoying more the sense of personal accomplishment and just working on their own whims. Encouraging socialization or incentivizing teamwork is one thing but pushing it/forcing it is a whole other thing. Forcing people to NEED one another just to get by or maintain a normally functioning character is not okay.
Mod Edit: Removed meme as they are not allowed outside the meme thread ;)
Encouraging people to group is good. Giving lots of content that requires grouping to do that content is good. Providing more robust guild and other socialization tools is good.
Forcing people to group even when they aren't in the mood or don't have the time is ....not good.
We may not want the balance between grouping and not grouping that a game like WoW or EQ2 has - I surely don't - but we shouldn't flip unthinkingly to the opposite side either. We do need a balance.
dorotea said:Encouraging people to group is good. Giving lots of content that requires grouping to do that content is good. Providing more robust guild and other socialization tools is good.
Forcing people to group even when they aren't in the mood or don't have the time is ....not good.
We may not want the balance between grouping and not grouping that a game like WoW or EQ2 has - I surely don't - but we shouldn't flip unthinkingly to the opposite side either. We do need a balance.
Agreed, forcing people to do things (such as socializing) isn't going to happen anyway, unless they want to. :) I think that's just an organic thing anyway, as people move further within the game, want to join a guild, discover a couple people they like to hang out with to get things done. Not something you can force, but maybe something that happens naturally over time.
Iksar ,I think we have all been in that phase we pretend a game is something it is not,when being too hyped
You have to do it with what you have and you can try to make the best of it,that is true,even when a game is dogpoo people are still gonna have different opinion about it.
Not everyone has the same taste,not every game is for the same target audience.I loathed Wow ,you loved it and made friends.Different opinions ,different taste.
The more we'll need other players ,the better.
People keep pulling the forcing-it-upon-us card whenever some depth is proposed.
Its just a way of looking at it,an opinion.
You look at it like its forcing people to need each other,I look at it as player involvement
introducing that much needed compelling social and group-oriented gameplay multiplayers need
Players will have to withstand harsh environments which incentivizes teamwork,compelling players to work their way out of it.
Nothing is forced.The climate system just demands we use the brain for a change.
Spells work better or worse depending on climate.Together we have to engage the world.
I see it more as a challenge,saying that is pushing it/forcing it is just putting it in a quite distorting picture
As I remember I mentioned that aside,as a quick example.
But I also tried to explain why I believe it would make for a better thing than buffs to encourage socialization.
Can't recall mentioning it would involve quests.Or that it would be impossible to cure without help.Just harder without help on the middle of journey.
It might bring some other unforseen challenges to the adventure
Some lasting conditions like drunk could have positive effects ,like more endurance,less accuracy.
Conditions spark curiosity for the players you encounter.you might wake up with someone in the same bed without remembering a thing <3
Fluffy said:Iksar ,I think we have all been in that phase we pretend a game is something it is not,when being too hyped
You have to do it with what you have and you can try to make the best of it,that is true,even when a game is dogpoo people are still gonna have different opinion about it.
Not everyone has the same taste,not every game is for the same target audience.I loathed Wow ,you loved it and made friends.Different opinions ,different taste.The more we'll need other players ,the better.
People keep pulling the forcing-it-upon-us card whenever some depth is proposed.
Its just a way of looking at it,an opinion.
You look at it like its forcing people to need each other,I look at it as player involvement
introducing that much needed compelling social and group-oriented gameplay multiplayers need
Players will have to withstand harsh environments which incentivizes teamwork,compelling players to work their way out of it.
Nothing is forced.The climate system just demands we use the brain for a change.
Spells work better or worse depending on climate.Together we have to engage the world.
I see it more as a challenge,saying that is pushing it/forcing it is just putting it in a quite distorting picture
I think that the "need" of other players is fine with just grouping being the best and/or safest way for players to level, to get items as camps are usually done by groups, and crafting should one not want to take on that role themselves. Social people will socialize regardless and those less inclined will do so much less. I imagine a majority of the worthwhile items/character progression in this game will require at least some involvement with other players and socializing. That is enough. If someone wants to level slower by soloing their way up however they can find a way, or travel the world through different climates alone, then that should be an option for them. A great game lets you engage the world the way you want: together or alone.
To that end I say no, buffs do not encourage socialization but they do add an extra window towards being social with otherwise strangers.
Lasting conditions are not any different;example,you could engage the world drunk alone or together
If you have travelled too long and have entered a weak condition,you become more perceptive to cold
as an example
Finding food will be on your mind.Nothing stops you from searching food on your own out in the open.
Though,it will be tempting to approach other players on your path if you fail to find it.
So players still can engage the world how they want with lasting conditions: together or alone
Just like buffs, lasting ailments/conditions add that extra window towards being social with otherwise strangers (even more so than buffs I believe,thats why I said before buffs pale in comparison to lasting ailments to encourage socialization)
And as one of the tenets say;
-An understanding that player involvement is required for progression. All actions (or lack thereof) should have consequences.
Positive actions should be rewarded. Apathy or lack of action should not be rewarded with bonuses.-