Dalinsia said:I Agree this is a very nice idea and would fit nicely with the perception system too. I support this 100% and we are looking at this as a hot topic for the Voices of Tavern Talk show tomorrow.
I had a chance to catch this on YouTube. Great discussion! I like all the directions you were able to take this in.
Everything that was written was really really good.
I've watched the voice of terminus on this too and they had a great discussion.
But one thing I loved on what they discussed was the unlocking of secret with the lore. Having the ability of discovering truly and undoubtedly side stories that would enriched the world itself. And I'd like to expand on this with a probable in game situation.
4 companions let's say the usual 1 cleric. 1 war . 1 wiz and let's add en enchanter to the mix. The cleric is human. War is dwarvish wiz elf and enchanter gnome.
All 4 are exploring the black dagger outpost and during their exploration they come upon a note that was on one of the leaders at the outposts. The letter is written in common as the black dagger leader was human. In the letter it states. the shipment that went through your outpost never arrived to its location, find out why or ourban master will be furious.
this adds intrigue. The key words being a shipment that passed the outpost never arrived and he was charged to finding out why. Another keyword is there is a master and somehow he is feared.
Now the choice is there for the companions should they look for this shipment further ahead passed the outpost or not bother. If they are anything like me I wanna know what's in the shipment!
So the 4 companions sets out deeper pass the outpost where lies a dark forest. This forest doesn't sound inviting but when was the last dark forest seemed inciting before! They enter having begun this side quest/lore they begin a series of events where they are ambushes and perceptions opportunities until they locate the missing shipment caravan that seems to have been looted. No rangers un group can't really make out what could have done this with the activities on the ground but the warrior can see corpses and how they died and can say what type of weapon using his skills of perception and same for wizards if any magic was used.
Finally they find a clue they can't be for certain but seemed humanoid and they determine the caravan was bringing some sort of beast but the beast but no corpses of any beast and yet nothing indicates that these guards died from a beast attack other than a few where they were able to identify weapon deaths and one was killed rather violently and it's a type of magic unknown to him.
The dwarf warrior finally finds a weapon unlike the others lodged into one of the guards. He removes it and it has some runes and has a weird shape. The enchanter looks at thease runes and he indicates that the runes are actually an enchantment but none he has seen before and announce he needs to study the runes and must go to the city where he can see if he can find help.
The party returns to the city days after. During the travels back the warrior was studying the short sword and from the handle and it's curve determines using his perception that the race is very limber and this would by an assassin.
The enchanter returns to his teacher brings the sword and shows it to him. He inspect the weapon and says the weapon is not know to him but the runes he has seen before just not sure where and invites the enchanter to his library to search for information. The enchanter learns lore information on the runes and finds that this rune is a leaching rune where it would take life away at the touch of blood. He learns that the rune was created a long time ago but was not able to pin point by who and why.
The enchanter shares this information with his party member and everyone receives the addition of this rune shape being leaching ability upon condition it touches blood. And with the Warriors inspection they also learn it is from a limber creature.
From this information the wizards puts both information together and where it was found determines from the area explored where they would be able to find more information upon the next trek.
Right here with everything this group did is a good one day session ifor not more pending the amount of time they played.
Next session all 4 companions head out to the general area having to fight through all sort of encounters. They arrive in the area where the wizard mentionner they would have the most success and not far from this place the cleric spots a shape that he determines that could be some sort of statue. Removing the Moss from it he finds a shape of his diety a warning and scripture in a language he has no idea what it is....
Ok phone is at 3 percent I got to stop here but I'll keep going later when I get home from the train ride!
And I am thinking Beez, now they all have some ability due to the learning form the perception for instance
- the warior gains the ability to weild this type of sword with the enchantment on it, that gets better if his dex or agi is higher (needs to be more limber).
The chanter learns to make such an enchantment on a weapon.
The wiz learns a spell-skill chain based on a life leech type of effect and can then mem spells with this effect that were locked before.
Likewise the cleric learns a cure or now allows his Heal over time spells to instead counter the life leach spell acting like a cancel magic- so the cleric will have to heal again but has- in the meantime, staunched the bleeding so-to-speak.
Now if a rogue ( assasin) were to join the group- by proximity or perhaps some physical mechanic (trading of something) if they gave the rogue the weapon, he would instantly be able to wield it with all its effects, form the lore passed on by the group.
Feyshtey said:I'd like to thank Voices of Terminus for the great twitch stream session on this topic. They already have it uploaded, and here's the URL for anyone that'd like to catch up on it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSYQaKP11Vg
Not to discount what came before at all, but the chat on this particular topic starts at around the 12:30 mark.
I took a few notes on the great ways that the notion was expanded with. Hopefully this simple list can stir up some additional conversation here in the thread. I take no credit for these notions brought about by many people. I'm sorry that I didnt track all the sources for credit.
⦁ It could be a built-in timesink to help slow the consumption and eventual stagnation of content.
⦁ It could be a potential alternative to one of the percieved goals of Progeny, in that instead of rerolling a new character to keep lower level areas relevant, you could instead lead higher level players there in search of lore that is requred for later lore progressions.
⦁ It's a great addition to Perception system, perhaps thru you can percieve something that you wouldnt have otherwise taken note of.
⦁ Leksur mentioned the compulsion to find those missing pieces of lore. This could present the possibilty of player uninterested in doing lore themselves selling a book they have discovered, encouraging player interaction thru economy.
⦁ This could mixes with language skills. Lorekeeping could allow mastering a language beyond that which you might have otherwise attained because the lore grants you context.
⦁ It could allow a path to attaining cultural reputation thru the respect given in the time you've taken to understand that culture's history.
⦁ Keep it seperate from other crafting skills, remain a secondary seperate horizontal path of progression. This allows anyone to engage to the deepest level if they choose to without forgoing some other craft.
⦁ Lore elements split into lore groups: One artifact discovery might contain mutliple lore categories from racial, cultural, crafting origins, and reasons the artifact was created or what it might be best utlized for. Or perhaps even how to create like artifacts through some other crafting skill.
⦁ It could tie to diplomacy, giving the ability understand and utilize hierarchy of a culture to your advantage.
⦁ It oculd be a pathway to help the developers gain time, pre-load lore tidbit breadcrumbs to unlock upcomng expansions or new content releases. Players could be engaged in the backstory before the content is even released.
⦁ It could be used as a means to unlocking zones, zone-changes, or even server-wide events. Thru lore gathering and consolidation, a server's population could collectively discover new content.
⦁ Aids slowing content consumption by having people investigating mysteries that then lead to new content or changing content.
⦁ Potential zone changes associated with an account, so that a player must be with others that have the same lore information collected in order to share the new content.
Downside is that people are at different stages and it creates conflicts with who you can go to a place with.
⦁ Presents the possibility that server-wide changes could mean server shards are at varied levels of progression based on that shard's lorekeeper participation levels. This can encourage teamwork for the server to resolve new challenges that lore unlocked in order to clear the way to content, and drive greater social interactions.
⦁ From a developer perspective it can be used as achievement system, puzzle system, crafting tie-in, or addition to almost any other game system. None being a large amount of complexity from a dev standpoint but potentially adds so much.
⦁ With progeny, you could potentially find lore in the gameworld about your ancestral characters.
⦁ Possibly create a personal library within player housing.
⦁ Tie in to epic quests, requiring gathering information that allows the creation of the epic weapon, or increase power of it.
⦁ Potentially added as a feature of an expansion to encourage going back to original zones and not requiring development shoe-horn the idea in at release.
⦁ Potential for a minimum of population of server to hit LoreMaster, and their cooperation unlocks content. Lore gathered and compiled at the libraries or museums allows others to research it there, and make correlations. The compiled Master Lore Tome completes the progression. Potentially changing the tier of progression from one shard to the next.
⦁ Can open up new lines of quests for the server population, not specific to the discoverer(s).
⦁ Encourage higher level scholars to work with lower level characters to uncover information in lower level zones.From the conversation I also imagined it having a literal puzzle aspect, where lore scraps can be collected and there being an in-game interface where the pieces can be put together to make completed texts visible that give clues to other paths of investigation.
Anyway, I loved hearing all the ways people took this to a whole new level, and it's exciting to consider the possibilities.
Nice Break Down...This is a great idea and lots of potential!
I had some thoughts about Maps. Brad did say he don't want to have maps as they can ruin immersion. He likes the thought of folks making their own or sharing. He said he would think about it.
We had a very good discussion on the Voices of Terminus Show about the lore keeper skill. This brings in an Idea I thought about for a while now Maps. Players could chooses to work on a cartographer skill along with the lore keeper skill......these skills working together could unlock fragments of map pieces of important interest in the game. Players don't get a full map of a zone but get hints and subtle pieces information of an area or important locations for clues.
I think combining a cartographer skill and lore master skill could work together to really bring immersion together aswell.
GREAT OP!
I'm not into lore to be honest. Just not my thing.
But awesome ideas! WOOT!
I'm hoping for Vanguard-like mining of minerals and metals in Pantheon
Add this thread into the BURIED WORLD.... ENDLESS possibilities. Probably not something that can be done for launch, but... down the road... NO LIMIT to what you guys can put into this game.
Artifacts. Scrolls. Weapons from AGES PAST. SPELLS that are not in the game otherwise. Not quested. Something that may never actually be dug up. Something only an ore miner cand find. And the odds of finding it are a million to one. Billion?
And not only for miners. Hidden in farmers fields for our plant growers. Hidden in forests for our lumberjacks and so on...
Don't get my head spinning again, guys... I love to imagine! :)
Great thread! :)
AWESOME IDEAS, Guys!!! /SALUTE
At the risk of being smacked down for a major post necro...
With the information that has trickled out about the perception system over time I'm sure some of this thread would need to be rethought and adjusted. But I still think the ideas people have come up with in it and in the Voices of Terminus video are well worth revisiting. Especially considering how many more people exist on this forum than did when this was origionally explored.
I think this Lore post is relevant now more than ever since the Art of Combat stream on 2/25/21. Where beans were dropped about a Keeper's role in a group as a support class.