Sevens said:No thanks
Much discussion. Good words. Wow.
Anyways, why not? Why is your opinion "no thanks"? Penny for your thoughts on why this is so bad it only garnered a two word reply.
shihiro said:Should there exist in Terminus something for guilds to aspire to get, or do?
Yes.
shihiro said:Currently there is a lot of discussion on raiding, which has its merits, but should that be it?
Yes.
shihiro said:Should there be a guild achievement system that has various things for guilds to attempt?
No.
I'm all for guild quests. Not necisarily go kill a bunch of stuff or collect a bunch of stuff, but perhaps something along the lines of things that would already in the game that just require more than a single person or group. Perhaps something like:
town z was just razed by marauders and now needs assistance. Things such as amor, housing goods and building material from the crafters, some haling love and protection from the adventures. OK, so there would be some killing going on, but I'm sure the folks at VR would be able to come up with something imaginable and fitting for the game.
It would give guilds something to do as a guild aside from raiding and thus create more player interaction.
Just my 2 cp.
The problem is that 1000 x small achievement does not equal a large achievement.
Killing a mob that is actually intended for soloing, and repeating that kill 1000 times should not get you a raid-level drop.
In the same way, collecting 1000 crafted items isn't really an achievemt in anything but mindless tedium.
So what would you have as an achievement, besides raiding (in a PvE game)?
These days many games have "achievements" that aren't anything more than "been there, touched that, did a few quests". What's the point?
If I see on someone an item that I know required an epic quest, multiple hard dungeons and some raids, it's an achievement in itself.
Let the community decide on what is an achievement. It will probably settle into the usual list - raid bosses killed, zone access (for zones that are difficult to get access to), epic quests, items from the same, or other super-hard and rare quests. For guilds, having good and stable members is in itself an achievement.
I could get on board with it. But it depends on implimintation. I would also say that this applies to the grander scheme for me of high end content being mixed in approach and gearing, and not something where only Raiding is the best in terms of challenge and reward. Raids, Dungeons, Crafing, Faction, Epic Quests, etc. all supplying high end challenge with high end loot. So in order to be "the best" you have to heavily invest in all aspects not just one (Raiding). This would also force the spread of the popuation across contents. Bit off topic but I thought it appropriate.
Dont get too upset with some of the responses you get on these forums. You have a lot of passionate people. And not too many around these parts feel okay about things that (in their opinion) break immersion, overly automate, or otherwise make the game feel too gameified (totally a word ^.^). Keeping that in mind, continue to share your thoughts and ideas.
I'd enjoy doing some random kill XYZ quests if it directly benefitted my guild. I do not think VR is going to go the same route current MMOs are going with guilds(guild buffs, guild levels etc.) but they are keeping it old fashioned where you're in a guild for the people, not a buff. Personally I just like raiding but I'm open to what VR would add for guilds.
shihiro said:Sevens said:No thanks
Much discussion. Good words. Wow.
Anyways, why not? Why is your opinion "no thanks"? Penny for your thoughts on why this is so bad it only garnered a two word reply.
Dont like the whole artificial guild quest, achievements and so forth. Give the guild a chat channel and youre good to go. Let them set their own goals.
shihiro said: Yeah Amsai, I notice that. Regardless, let me respond to a few things (I'm on mobile, please don't hurt me!) @Searril: Why not? You really can't have a discussion with one worded responses. Why are you directly opposed to the idea for a guild achievement system? Is it because another game has done it (poorly or otherwise)? Is it because the implementation would be difficult? @Aarpoch: Indeed, that is kind of where I was going with this. Invasions whereby a guild provides a settlement or town with enough provisions and resources to survive the encounter. This could be by providing weapons and armor, food supplies, going and killing off some of the invasion force (generals, etc), or any combination therein (whereby providing food decreases the amount of other resources and/or kills by some amount). It could just be something immersive and fun for guilds to do. @Aethor: I agree that killing X amount of mobs or providing Y amounts of items isn't likely to be "epic" or yield those levels of rewards. In fact, nowhere have I specified it should yield epic level rewards. For instance, if you've saved a village by doing a guild quests there, maybe that village provides your guild with a helpful NPC that sells wares from your guild for a while, or does other things (like information brokering for your guild). It doesn't have to be amazing rewards, but something fun and worthwhile will keep guilds afloat between raid tiers. @Amsai: Thanks for the words of encouragement. I know the forums can be full of grouches that want to go back to the true glory days of everquest. However, making ever quest with just updated graphics won't fly in this day and age of mmorpgs. As you suggest, this could be another Avenue not to get gear (or perhaps not only gear, at any rate) or even prestige. Say for example your guild rescues the small town of Barcelona (or whatever have you, I'm at work and writing between tasks). Your guild members then have the option of using the title "Savior of Barcelona" for a time (maybe until the town goes under seige again). The guild could always have the achievement of doing that quest, but the title is time limited until your guild helps again.
As soon as someone disagrees with your ideas they are nothing but grouches that are wearing rose colored glasses and want nothing but a new EQ with updated graphics. Its an old tired attack on someone who disagrees, try something origianl next time. See I like a lot of the ideas posted on this forum about new things in game (Tavern games in cities for down time) its just this particulare idea I didnt really care for. Never said it was a bad idea or attacked you for posting it, just that I personally didnt like it but you had to turn that into an attack. Ok....
shihiro said: @Sevens: I apologize. But your two word response of 'no thanks' rather than explaining why you disagreed definitely fit with the term grouch (or at least, it sounded ill-tempered). Getting back to your actual reply to the topic: Why would you consider them artificial? They could be fully done in an immersive way, in which case it would necessarily fit into the definition of "artificial". It would be something for anyone who isn't currently raiding or otherwise preoccupied to do and enhance the world by making it seem relevant. Would a band of orcs/goblins/trolls or whatever have you attack a small village if their numbers are great enough? You bet they would. It doesn't have to all be related to invasions, mind you, but it would add immersion to the world so it wouldn't necessarily feel static all the time.
I too apologize for the aggressive tone of my post, I have just seen to many times when a disagreement happens the personal attacks start... but no harm no foul were good
My first post was mostly because it was way early in the morning and hadnt had my morning Pepsi (you all can keep your evil coffee, yuck) and hadnt really formatted my thoughts, now as to why I think they are artificial...Im just against the whole acheivement thing in the first place, To me it makes it more of a game than a world, goals should be set by the guild (we want to be a raiding guild and push the boundries or we want to be the biggest guild on the server etc etc) if the game is setting them for you, its just another check mark to tic off of your to do list.
Edit: To be honest, I am a grouch...just not one that only wants an EQ updated clone
Amsai said:I could get on board with it. But it depends on implimintation. I would also say that this applies to the grander scheme for me of high end content being mixed in approach and gearing, and not something where only Raiding is the best in terms of challenge and reward. Raids, Dungeons, Crafing, Faction, Epic Quests, etc. all supplying high end challenge with high end loot. So in order to be "the best" you have to heavily invest in all aspects not just one (Raiding). This would also force the spread of the popuation across contents. Bit off topic but I thought it appropriate.
Dont get too upset with some of the responses you get on these forums. You have a lot of passionate people. And not too many around these parts feel okay about things that (in their opinion) break immersion, overly automate, or otherwise make the game feel too gameified (totally a word ^.^). Keeping that in mind, continue to share your thoughts and ideas.
Implementation is key. I think there should be a guild series abilities or achievements. It needs to be on the level of guild though. Lots of rules need apply here.
As far as people posting here there is always someone that may not see your idea as you do. Just remember not to take it personally and continue doing what you are doing. Discussion is a good thing.
Good post!
Ox
I would enjoy having guild goals of some sort, possibly a monthly or quarterly easter egg that starts with finding perception clues spread across the world (preferably based in lore and difficult to solve), unraveling them leads to 1 or 2 tasks that need to be accomplished such as - tradeskill quests to support local cities, monetary donations to cities or factions, deity rituals that require consumable items from raid targets, etc. Completing the EE could result in single or multiple rewards for the guild, based on completion time, such as - guild flag being flown over guild recruitment boards (limited to first 3 or 5 completed), wearing your guild crest on your armor increases your faction with a city or race, small stat or skill bonuses (not too big ofc), expedited trade/mail delivery, bragging rights obviously, etc. Not sure how to work the process itself into game immersion but it if implimented correctly it could impact many key aspects.
But please, no achievements just for the sake of achievements.
coach said:But please, no achievements just for the sake of achievements.
This. While I'm for meaningful guild goals and achieves, I really don't want spammed cuase little Aarpoch discovered the ruins of Orc hill or some such cluttering the guild log (of course assuming for the sake of agrument it even gets implimented.)
Nope to the guild achievements. Fundamentally we are in a social world. Everyone is in a social world. Now, some will band together and create a guild such that it makes it easier to organize and get things done.
Does that mean if you are in a guild you can't group with anyone else and no one else can group with you? No. Does that mean that only those that belong to the same guild as the raid leader can be on a raid? Only if imposed by said raid leader. But there shouldn't be anything preventing others from helping out - even by invitation. Or a couple of smaller guilds working together.
I find on here there is too much focus on what will be done by a guild and everyone else be damned. I feel that is a disservice to the whole MMORPG in general.
So anything that will be designed content for some guilds only (since the next extension will be achievements based on certain guild restrictions such as for a large guild as opposed to a small guild) as opposed to Pantheon and all who subscribe to it gets a "NO" from me.
I don't believe it has been adequately answered as to "WHY" there should be guild-achievement designed content.
What if the acheivement is a recognition of "world firsts" written directly into the Lore? When a new expansion comes out, a lore newsletter could be sent to update on the world events like "The giant dragon was then slay in 4043 by the brave men and women from 'Guild'". Hopefully no ridiculously named guilds like 'Draft Dodgers United' or 'Smelly Piglet Tail' are the ones who claim this acheivemen but, who knows. :D
Abstract suggestion: Could we award a guild's exemplary actions by having them recognized within the evolving story of Pantheon?
muscoby said:I don't believe it has been adequately answered as to "WHY" there should be guild-achievement designed content.
While i respect your opinion of not wanting this in game I don't get why anybody should have to "adequately answer WHY" they want something. Because they might find it fun?
Syntro said:What if the acheivement is a recognition of "world firsts" written directly into the Lore? When a new expansion comes out, a lore newsletter could be sent to update on the world events like "The giant dragon was then slay in 4043 by the brave men and women from 'Guild'". Hopefully no ridiculously named guilds like 'Draft Dodgers United' or 'Smelly Piglet Tail' are the ones who claim this acheivemen but, who knows. :D
Abstract suggestion: Could we award a guild's exemplary actions by having them recognized within the evolving story of Pantheon?
Thats a ripper of a suggestion mate, would be very cool! especially havings ones actions being written into an ever evolving lore!
I also would love to see something with careful and considered implementation.
Brain fart: Guild reputations? Guild quests? Would Guild reputation be tied to individual reputation? What happens when you leave / join a guild?
From an immersion perspective, I can see that a town / faction may want the services of a well known guild instead of a random (or well known) individual > which could leads into guild based quests based on reputation etc.
Also, if something is implemented, player expectation will be that the system is utilised / improved in all expansions moving forward - so it will have an ongoing development cost.
It's a mixed bag of possibilities.
shihiro said: Hello all, I am wondering after reading several topics here on the forums which speculate on various aspects of the game. What I would like to discuss here are guild goals. Should there exist in Terminus something for guilds to aspire to get, or do? Currently there is a lot of discussion on raiding, which has its merits, but should that be it? Should there be a guild achievement system that has various things for guilds to attempt? Should it go even further than this? Something interesting could be special guild quests (craft 1000 of X item, kill Yeah number of Z, go find NPC lost in woods and escort them safely to a location, etc). Something else could be a grand quest which will award those who partake something special, or the guild as a whole something of value (cloaks, or some other visible item only available from that quest). I've seen epic weapons bandied around, why not special guild skills unlocked only through actual guild activities. Thoughts, comments?
i like the idea but instead of having "goals" maybe achievements tied into in which i presume will have factions, then you would gain faction points toward a certain faction and loose some from another?
i like the idea of helping a homstead also in return you gain a %off items sales in that homestead for a certain time? or until they are attacked again and you werent there to protect them therefore you'd find yourself back at status quo?
There are other good ideas mentionned after the first poster.
Syntro said:
Abstract suggestion: Could we award a guild's exemplary actions by having them recognized within the evolving story of Pantheon?
Please don't infuse the game with required (or virtually required) guild mandatory achievements. Don't pull guilds into a rabbit hole and away from the overall game community.
As Syntro mentions, if it is kept solidly withing the tenets and particularly involving the lore and concept of community then I have no problem.
Aarpoch said:muscoby said:I don't believe it has been adequately answered as to "WHY" there should be guild-achievement designed content.
While i respect your opinion of not wanting this in game I don't get why anybody should have to "adequately answer WHY" they want something. Because they might find it fun?
I never meant to cause offense. The original poster had asked the question "WHY NOT" It was the basis of discussion. Perhaps it is my educational background and life experience coming through but it is certainly an odd form of discussion to posit "WHY NOT" without establishing a "WHY."
