There's plenty of time for animations to improve, but, to be honest, fanbois or not, a lot of the people that are excited for Pantheon because it will be a challenging, group-based, social MMORPG genuinely *aren't* as bothered by animations and graphics as perhaps the average gamer is these days.
There are a lot of rose-tinted glasses out there, *but* a lot genuinely don't see graphics as a big deal as long as they meet a certain minimum and most people I hear from are pretty much happy with what we are seeing in streams already!
The overriding priority for most fans, I pretty sure, really is the gameplay and the challenge level and other old-school values. Hell, a lot of use are preferring EQ P99 to the modern MMORPGs... graphics *not* a priority there hehe.
Grymmlocke said:Gomok said:Grymmlocke said:Having a slower combat pace is wonderful imo. However, having a smooth fluidity to those animations is imperative, and something I hope VR spends a significant amount of time/resources on. Mocap is the go to tech for acheiving this, and with the advances in the mocap technology over the years the cost shouldn't be prohibitive.
What is this "Mocap" technology you speak of, Grymm?
Is that something they are using to sand paper out the fluidity of the combat?
And again, I am fine with the slow pace combat, I think NWO is slower than WOW, too be honest, but the more sparkly, fluid, non clunky movements you see with the avatars as development go through the better. I think this is crucial in getting people that are playing similiar games, EQ1, EQ2, BDO, WOW, TERA, FF "RB" and the likes to actually look at the game before pledging.
And I think, as long as the movements are fluid, people will be satisfied (I hope).
Motion capture. Used to capture the natural fluid motions of actual models using sensors placed on their bodies to record those movements in digital form.
This has been used even in Canceled projects, Especially on sword fighting and many studios are doing this now with game devs.
Even though we do not like to talk about OKAM it was being used in this too. It was a bad deal project for backers. Sadly the technoligy was being used but got scraped.
I don't care at all if the graphics are good or bad, it could look like eq1 for all I care but having smooth animations that actually represent your actions is very important to me. Especially movement animations where strafing, attacking while strafing, attacking while jumping during a strafe etc. all ties together in a way that doesn't look like Unreal Tournament ragdolls gone rogue.
I would be interested to see a "behind the scenes" look at animation development. For example - using a technology like VICON, importing kinematic data into Maya, refining the skeleton rig, applying skins and finishing up with some end results in gameplay. That would be a tastey treat.
I’m a little sad people don’t understand that we are in pre alpha and it’s not the time to be worrying about animations yet. It’s been said in pretty much every stream that the animations aren’t final. My largest concern with VR shifting resources to this now is that some of this work will be wasted as if they decide to remove skills from one class any work done on those would be wasted. On top of that it’s a slippery slope. Once started people will expect to see these new animations rolled out across all classes.
I understand the desire to see progress, but I wish people had a better understanding of the development cycle and could just be patient.
Most look fantastic i couldn't be happier overall.
Was blown away with the Enchanters animations and Dire Lords animations.
Whoever designed Enchanter animations did a fantastic job.
I agree that graphics are not as important as gameplay though animations are things we look at for hundreds of hours so they do need to be decent to look at.
Brad recently responded to a thread just last Saturday and deep within it he has asked for Combat feedback. Here's his truncated message:
Aradune said:Lastly, always looking for feedback from the community in terms of how we can both make combat better *and* make watching combat more intriguing. Definitely looking for ideas, guidelines, strategies, etc. from the community, listening to you all who are looking from the outside in and not just what people actually experience before they play the game themselves.
thanks in advance!
-Brad
Link to original post: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/9314/those-of-us-not-in-the-pre-alpha-what-can-we-do/view/page/1
Avaen said: I want to be able to identify classes just by seeing their spell/combat subtleties in unique and identifiable ways.
I agree, but I also like to see a consistency of animation and spell effects for similar abilities. For example, stuns should create a consistant identifiable animation and spell effect on the target regardless of what class caused that stun. Roots should also create an identifiable animation/effect on the target regardless of which class caused that root. Perhaps there can be a slight variance for each class, but the basic effect for that type of control should be the same.
So for root effects, the theme of the effect would be chains forming from the ground around the legs of the target, but the texture of the effect could be different from different classes. So the root effect is shown in this image: https://i.imgur.com/6TFe4Mf.png where the pinkish arcane chains are on several targets. This could be the wizard effect. But a druid root might be green vines instead of pink arcane chains. Dire Lord root might be red veins of clotting blood. Ranger root effect might be arrows pegged in the ground with rope creating the net like effect. All of them will be the same kind of 'chains from the ground' that is obviously a root but the texture and colour of the effect might be different so you know what class cast that root.
I think that heal effects should also be consistant in some way so that you instantly recognize a heal effect no matter what class is casting that heal. Perhaps all heals can be the same 'heals only' colour, but each spell will have it's own particle effect made up of that colour. So you will instantly know a heal when you see it, but the particle effects will give you the subtle info of what heal is cast and from what class.
This kind of consistancy can also be done with sound. For example, all stuns can cause a specific thump sound effect regardless of the source, but then have a subtle different echo or fading chime that is different for each class. So it's recognizable as a stun right away, but if you are really paying attention you can tell who used the stun by it's fade away echo sound. Same for heals, etc...
GoofyWarriorGuy said:Avaen said: I want to be able to identify classes just by seeing their spell/combat subtleties in unique and identifiable ways.
I agree, but I also like to see a consistency of animation and spell effects for similar abilities. For example, stuns should create a consistant identifiable animation and spell effect on the target regardless of what class caused that stun. Roots should also create an identifiable animation/effect on the target regardless of which class caused that root. Perhaps there can be a slight variance for each class, but the basic effect for that type of control should be the same.
So for root effects, the theme of the effect would be chains forming from the ground around the legs of the target, but the texture of the effect could be different from different classes. So the root effect is shown in this image: https://i.imgur.com/6TFe4Mf.png where the pinkish arcane chains are on several targets. This could be the wizard effect. But a druid root might be green vines instead of pink arcane chains. Dire Lord root might be red veins of clotting blood. Ranger root effect might be arrows pegged in the ground with rope creating the net like effect. All of them will be the same kind of 'chains from the ground' that is obviously a root but the texture and colour of the effect might be different so you know what class cast that root.
I think that heal effects should also be consistant in some way so that you instantly recognize a heal effect no matter what class is casting that heal. Perhaps all heals can be the same 'heals only' colour, but each spell will have it's own particle effect made up of that colour. So you will instantly know a heal when you see it, but the particle effects will give you the subtle info of what heal is cast and from what class.
This kind of consistancy can also be done with sound. For example, all stuns can cause a specific thump sound effect regardless of the source, but then have a subtle different echo or fading chime that is different for each class. So it's recognizable as a stun right away, but if you are really paying attention you can tell who used the stun by it's fade away echo sound. Same for heals, etc...
Yeah I like the same spell on different classes to be unique as well. Also, don't make the spell effects TOO MUCH. Please! It's the first thing that I turn down because I end up losing my mouse in all the flashy sparkles. From the streams so far, its been nice and clean.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:Avaen said: I want to be able to identify classes just by seeing their spell/combat subtleties in unique and identifiable ways.
I agree, but I also like to see a consistency of animation and spell effects for similar abilities. For example, stuns should create a consistant identifiable animation and spell effect on the target regardless of what class caused that stun. Roots should also create an identifiable animation/effect on the target regardless of which class caused that root. Perhaps there can be a slight variance for each class, but the basic effect for that type of control should be the same.
So for root effects, the theme of the effect would be chains forming from the ground around the legs of the target, but the texture of the effect could be different from different classes. So the root effect is shown in this image: https://i.imgur.com/6TFe4Mf.png where the pinkish arcane chains are on several targets. This could be the wizard effect. But a druid root might be green vines instead of pink arcane chains. Dire Lord root might be red veins of clotting blood. Ranger root effect might be arrows pegged in the ground with rope creating the net like effect. All of them will be the same kind of 'chains from the ground' that is obviously a root but the texture and colour of the effect might be different so you know what class cast that root.
I think that heal effects should also be consistant in some way so that you instantly recognize a heal effect no matter what class is casting that heal. Perhaps all heals can be the same 'heals only' colour, but each spell will have it's own particle effect made up of that colour. So you will instantly know a heal when you see it, but the particle effects will give you the subtle info of what heal is cast and from what class.
This kind of consistancy can also be done with sound. For example, all stuns can cause a specific thump sound effect regardless of the source, but then have a subtle different echo or fading chime that is different for each class. So it's recognizable as a stun right away, but if you are really paying attention you can tell who used the stun by it's fade away echo sound. Same for heals, etc...
Love this! I agree.
Kurg said: I loved the fact the look of a spell was affected by level in eq. (Though not neccesarily the way it was all or nothing. When hitting lvl 20 you got the full blown effects iirc..) growing effects as you lvl gets thumbs up from me. Having seen most streams i telt the ranger spells showing a fullsize panther/bear enter the fight for a few seconds was a bit of an overkill in my book.. too many effects van make the battle overly confusing. Spell effects can help with seeing whats going on in a battle.. add many different spell effects and it no longer contributes to that but instead becomes a meaningless lichtshow. Im by no means hoping for the same spell effects amongst the different classes but it should be somewhat easy to distinguish between a party member casting a DoT or a Mez.
I forgot about this nuance in EQ! It's a great way to allow a character to feel more powerful.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:I agree, but I also like to see a consistency of animation and spell effects for similar abilities.
I like your ideas for CC, but I think too much consistency in spell effects will lead to very bland visuals. Take healing for example. Clerics, druids, and shaman use radically different magics and spells - those should not look anything alike, even in color. I'm less interested in being able to instantly identify that I've been healed by color than I am in recognizing class-unique spell effects. When I play a druid, I don't want to it to look like I'm just playing a reskinned cleric or whatever - and vice versa. Same goes for the control, dps, and tank classes. Ideally, each class would have unique casting/swinging animations as well (or at least race-unique - just something to create some variety).
Visual interest (alongside impactful sound effects - a sadly underappreciated component) is critical in maintaining enjoyment and engagement in combat.
Kastor said:GoofyWarriorGuy said:Avaen said: I want to be able to identify classes just by seeing their spell/combat subtleties in unique and identifiable ways.
I agree, but I also like to see a consistency of animation and spell effects for similar abilities. For example, stuns should create a consistant identifiable animation and spell effect on the target regardless of what class caused that stun. Roots should also create an identifiable animation/effect on the target regardless of which class caused that root. Perhaps there can be a slight variance for each class, but the basic effect for that type of control should be the same.
So for root effects, the theme of the effect would be chains forming from the ground around the legs of the target, but the texture of the effect could be different from different classes. So the root effect is shown in this image: https://i.imgur.com/6TFe4Mf.png where the pinkish arcane chains are on several targets. This could be the wizard effect. But a druid root might be green vines instead of pink arcane chains. Dire Lord root might be red veins of clotting blood. Ranger root effect might be arrows pegged in the ground with rope creating the net like effect. All of them will be the same kind of 'chains from the ground' that is obviously a root but the texture and colour of the effect might be different so you know what class cast that root.
I think that heal effects should also be consistant in some way so that you instantly recognize a heal effect no matter what class is casting that heal. Perhaps all heals can be the same 'heals only' colour, but each spell will have it's own particle effect made up of that colour. So you will instantly know a heal when you see it, but the particle effects will give you the subtle info of what heal is cast and from what class.
This kind of consistancy can also be done with sound. For example, all stuns can cause a specific thump sound effect regardless of the source, but then have a subtle different echo or fading chime that is different for each class. So it's recognizable as a stun right away, but if you are really paying attention you can tell who used the stun by it's fade away echo sound. Same for heals, etc...
Yeah I like the same spell on different classes to be unique as well. Also, don't make the spell effects TOO MUCH. Please! It's the first thing that I turn down because I end up losing my mouse in all the flashy sparkles. From the streams so far, its been nice and clean.
Yeah, good point Kastor. Too much is too much.
