Dont forget the social dynamic. If I was a mage and a warrior friend was on and we satrted a group- that changed the options to where we could go significantly- all we needed was a healer of some sort, like a druid or shaman if a cleric could not be found. we could do harder stuff
If a Monk friend was around and we grouped and were also able to get a chanter- although we could not go where the above groupo could go, we could still do some reasonable exping- for any other addition would be bonus
But, If It was me and a cleric- well then the gates are open there are tons of possibilities! down right short of a raid targetm yes yes, just need a tank and away we go, can to the yard trash on the planes.
If I was a mage and saw a cleric AND warrior friend on? I was so trying to be non-chalant to not be onbvious in chumming up to them to either help me with something or to eb considere din their group. " Hey! how are you! what are you uip to? nothing? yeah me too. Hey, you thinking of, you know, like, going anywhere- you have any quests your working on? needamage?Icancome!"
Healers primary function/role is to heal. Their primary function revolves heavily around a group setting and they are a very group-oriented class. So when I think of classes that can solo I don't think of healers simply because fundamentally they are meant to function better in groups. Fortunately for some, most healers in VG could solo well so I'm sure some of the healers will have that 'solo' ability. And clerics in VG were amazing at solo'n especially early on until they got nerfed and they did this without pets. So imo I'd keep clerics petless and give pets to healers that fit lore. Not every healer has to have a pet nor does every healer have to be able to solo. There are plenty of other classes that are suited better to solo. And I'd just like it for the sake of individuality/uniqueness/balance that some classes do well at solo'n and others do well at grouping.
tehtawd said: Great responses everyone. Just dropping in to clarify something while I'm out and about. The games listed in my original post also included the ability to have a healing pet as well. My husband is very partial towards playing classes which include a healing pet. It is an interesting concept to have a bit of your healing being done by your pet, leaving the heavy work and clutch saves for the player. Food for thought. Sent via mobile -Todd
Than why not just have a pet that heals the cleric only? This is not to say it drops huge heals..but a tiny bit that adds a small bit of respite when presented with a shtf scenario?
There is also the possibility of a rune type spell that has a decent cooldown and lasts for a small amount of time. It could drop a small circle around the cleric and take a small bit of the damage. This also gives some small respite to a cleric when all hell breaks loose.
I for one loved having a tank pet in AA. I really like the idea of not being able to summon the pet once you are grouped though.
I guess this may be a dumb question here. Are we stuck in the old ways of what a healer can and can’t do? This also is in relation to the concept of a pet for the healer class. Maybe it could be a mana generator and or a percentage buff for casting. I am curious to see responses here.
I think the class could have a pet hell why not. If it is helpful to the group overall why not. Sure make it lore specific or faction based.
Just throwing out thoughts on this. A healer with a pet is an interesting concept.
Ox
What do you guys think of the pet putting a small absorption bubble instead of actual heals? Bubbles come to mind based on the healing playstyle I used in Rift. They had a generic/group/normal heal tree, but the other main healing tree (no good group heals and other stuff to help balance) also had strong bubbles and some of the bubbles would be placed on the target based on the amount a heal hit for. Proactive not reactive was the style I preferred. Having bubbles for a pet would give a similar effect and for soloing I feel like it could be more beneficial. The bubble wouldn't absorb but so much damage and maybe only melee not spells. The reason I see it as more beneficial is because it could help the healer get a spell off, be it root or whatever they decide, since they aren't getting hit (unless the mob destroys the shield really fast of course). You also can't have an unused bubble, unless it wears off, whereas you can have a heal not land in time.
As for group play... If it's a tank pet I think it should definitely disappear when the player joins a group. If there's a way to keep it from attacking mobs that have already agrod someone I'd like that too to prevent player using a pet to help tank in a situation where a pet would normally have disappeared. I'm thinking of a PL situation or a player bot (or friend/guildy/whatever) using their pet as a CC method or tank from outside the group. For the bubble pet I don't think it would kill group play if it didn't disappear, but could only bubble one person at a time and maybe just theplayer . However, if that pet stayed out while in a group the absorption amount would be 50% or 25%. Regardless, if whatever pet disappeared once the player joined a group I wouldn't argue against that.
I am in agreement with what Aviana said in which once the cleric is in a group the pet is unable to be summoned. Soloing though, sure why not Makes sense to me, I can't see how VR would make anything game breaking, being that the core focus is groups. I beleive these guys can implement a lot of these ideas without hindering the group aspect of the game. :)
This whole argument is counter intuitive to the core tennets of what Pantheon is to be. It is a GROUP centric game. Every class has its niche, whether it be healing, CCing, tanking or dpsing. All of these roles need to work in harmony with each other to create a successful group.
My suggestion is if you want to play a cleric but also want to be able to solo, then have a solo style alt. If your worried abouting sitting on your buns as a cleric while LFG then don't be. You will be completely inundated with offers to join a group, so much so that you be become picky about who you heal for, wanting to know the group composition before commiting to it.
For anyone who did not play vanilla EQ you need to turn your head on its side and shake out all memories of Wow, Rift, Archeagae, GW2, Aion, L2, EQ2 etc. This game will be like none of those and for good reason.
Making any class self sufficient to the point they can solo in anything but an extremely limited capacity, would be a cancer at the heart of the game. Luckily Brad already knows this and won't let it happen.
Cheers,
Ironbark
From the Patheon FAQ:
Nothing I've read indicates Brad "knows" that "anything but an extremely limited capacity" for soloing is "a cancer". Lol.
There will likely be plenty of soloable content. If it's anything like EQ (which it supposed to be, no?) then, yes, you will have to out-level it somewhat or be very powerful for your level, as very little content apart from noob zones is 'intended' as solo content.
I played a cleric to high level in EQ original and spent enough time soloing to be very disappointed with limited capacity and very annoyed that it somehow was deemed 'as intended' that clerics couldn't solo as well as other classes. In comparison, clerics was awful to impossible.
I was not constantly inundated with grouping offers and, as anyone who plays will know, there are many good reasons for soloing other than not finding a group.
In EQ P99 I played a monk to high level. Also extremely frustrating that, in those times soloing was my only option, I could not. At higher level I literally could not solo a lot of green content.
It would take very little to make all classes at least 'competent' soloers. Or equally incompetent if you like.
Noone is asking for a pet that makes soloing all content or never grouping an option. Pets are not cancer causing lol.
"most content will be designed for groups" Pretty self explanatory no? The game is GROUP CENTRIC and any soloing will be very limited to whatever content is left over after "most" is taken out.
Grouping is the very heart of this game. Brad crows it in every interview he has ever given about Pantheon, and thats a good thing. It's what is going to bring back the "golden age" of fantasy MMO.
There's no way that VR is going to make this game cater to "Lone Wolves" especially tanks, healers and crowd control. Potentially soloing will be a little friendlier to dps classes because traditionally they are more numerous than the golden three.
It was a noble attempt, but a failure none the less.
Cheers,
Ironbark
Ironbark said:"most content will be designed for groups" Pretty self explanatory no?
Yes, it means most content will be designed for groups. Ie. some will be designed for raids and some for soloing. In fact that is said in the next FAQ entry.
Ironbark said:The game is GROUP CENTRIC and any soloing will be very limited to whatever content is left over after "most" is taken out.
Absolutely, but remember some group content is generally soloable too, if you're of a higher level or very good/careful/well equipped.
Ironbark said:Grouping is the very heart of this game. Brad crows it in every interview he has ever given about Pantheon, and thats a good thing. It's what is going to bring back the "golden age" of fantasy MMO.
Yes and that's great! Yay!
Ironbark said:There's no way that VR is going to make this game cater to "Lone Wolves"
No and I don't think anyone said or even implied that. Grouping is best, yup. Soloing should be hard and certainly not "catered for" as any kind of priority.
Ironbark said:especially tanks, healers and crowd control.
Yeah not sure why you're singling them out as being somehow less appropriate for being able to solo.
Ironbark said:Potentially soloing will be a little friendlier to dps classes because traditionally they are more numerous than the golden three.
What's being more numerous got to do with whether or not a class should be able to solo? Are you implying if a class can solo they won't want to group? Or rather, to ensure *my* group always has a healer, tank and crowd control it's good to make it so they have no choice?
Sorry don't agree. That really sucks for the healers, tanks and CC classes and it's just not necessary - there's many ways to give more than enough incentive to group without punishing certain classes.
Ironbark said:It was a noble attempt, but a failure none the less.
What was? I'm not sure giving an opinion can really 'fail'.
I think I understand and I appreciate what you're saying and I get the concern, but I really don't think wanting to discuss opinions regading the possibility of pets for the cleric class in Pantheon will bring about the failure of the grouping dynamic in the game...
tehtawd said: Welcome to the forums ironbark. Thank you for sharing how you feel with this. Thanks all for the replies, I'm glad somebody brought up the importance of having this supposed tank pet not be available if you are in a group. Group play is important and a tank pet can step in the toes of the tank and the group's ccer. I'd want there to be some mechanic to help make it an obvious choice to dismiss the pet. Such as a meaningful group buff if you dismiss it. Sent via mobile -Todd
Absolutely. It's the way it was in EQ for Shamans - pet out to make soloing viable, but no need in a group - just an added complication and not much help - and of course, grouping was much better in most ways.
I really do get where the concern is coming from, I just don't think it *has* to have a negative effect. The Pantheon devs are pretty experienced and clever.
No to more pets, simply because it brings more chaotic in groups and on raids.
Example= If your in a dungeon and your a group of 6 in a tight corner and 6 people also have pets it kinda gets a clusterf*k.
Not to mention the agro problems and the targeting problems(for people that dont use keys haha).
I think healers/ccers and support players should focus on there jobs and not focus on there pets aswell.
So if there will be pets they should be doing something all by there selfs and they should be realy tiny. or there should be a clicky with shrink :).
there is a reason why Clerics did not use hammers/ druids did not use bears/ enchanters not used there sword/axe and shamans there wolfs on raids.
It will be 1 big clusterf*k.
So IF:
1. Passive pet that you can not control but can heal/cc or do other stuff.
2. Tiny pet, or the abbility to shrink it small.
3. Limited pet for like a couple seconds.
4. No targetable pet.
5. pet that does not generate any agro or mess with mechanics in any way.
In EQ I solo'd my Enchanter most of the time. I did pretty good : )
Sometimes complete strangers would ask me to go with them for some reason or antoher and I would go. I did pretty good there too.
Sometimes I would join my guild in a raid down at teh bottom of Chardok - and then I mezz-locked the whole bottom lvl. I think I did pretty good there too.
EQ if you had a good reputation as a healer getting groups was easy, can say that about any class really. I would go out of my way to help healers when they asked because healers make the best freinds : )
Shaman pets were not to great other than a little extra dps and couldnt tank.