I do not support "mentoring" systems where you de-level. It's just an outrageous idea.
I do not want to be in scenarios where I'm in a group of 10's or 20 or 30 somethings, or whatever level range, and one of them brings in their high level friend to "de-level" and play with us. I absolutely could not stand that.
I think more viable alternative is to create alternate characters. From a business perspective it will give players more reason to play because they have more characters to level up.
Mentoring in EQ2 was decent. It meant you could mentor down and go grind AA in your favorite dungeon while grossly OP. You were able to be attacked in PvP but unable to attack back.
I feel that mentoring down from a high level character to go slaughter your favorite old stomping-grounds cheapens the game and takes away from re-playability.
Want to go back and relive the glory days in Crushbone? Roll a new character and take advantage of the progeny system. The ability to power-level was a reward and business opportunity to those who put in the work, and a sellable service to those who did not.
My humble vote is for no mentoring. Although if mentoring is implemented, make it severly cripple the mentored and and leave them PvP enabled (on the PvP server)
Thank you for making this game.
EQ used something similar called "shrouds" where you would delevel but could also play a different character.
The only usefulness of this really was to play specific instances for quest items, where you had to bne certain levels.
Probably the most powerful aspect was emergent gameplay (aka unforeseen semi-exploits) where players would shroud down and play a rogue so they could use the sneak ability and pick up tradeskill items, quest items and complete quests safely. It really was a clever use of this but not (at all) what was intended.
After a (short) while, the only shrouding done was for this purpose - everything else was a total waste.
I vote strongly for powerleveling - no mentoring.
As far as mentoring went in EQII, mostly only people in the same guild did it. If anything it made for less socialization. Especially when their power went beyond the mentoring nerfs and it turned into a powerlevel anyway. Hope you really can make them just as strong as the group members but it's hard to believe.
The best use of it was when you had a group with someone just beyond the level range and they would mentor someone until the groups levels caught up and then they could unmentor and continue on.
So here's to hoping you can make it way better than mentoring in EQII. Otherwise it's an imprfect but somewhat necessary evil.
Yes to mentoring.
I want to be able to play with my buddies. Multiple people staying in the same level range is just impossible, you always end up losing touch - not very sociable.
Powerlevelling: feels like an undesirable exploit to me and is unsociable, since it often is at the expense of 'legitimate' players in the same area.
Alts: You can't roll enough to stay in line with several friends. In the same vein, even turning off XP won't easily keep you in touch with a group of friends. Also, I find multiple alts makes me lose immersion for any particular character I play.
Balance: Surely not rocket science. Err on the side of underpowered - you are doing it in order to group, after all, so shouldn't be an issue.
Zone level adjustment: Personally I think the Guild Wars 2 way of doing things had merit - your level is automatically lowered to a zone-appropriate level if you're too high. Zones never become trivial and "greyed-out". You always have to respect the environment and it also gives more things to do in the world. Stops high level characters farming (if forced). Stops powerlevelling. Addresses a lot of problems/issues.
Mentoring would be the better of both, I flat out dislike power leveling. Mentoring would give you the ability to join in with lower level friends who either started the game late or just didn't have the same amount of game play time as you did and was left behind. Zone level adjustments would be hard because like EQ there was always some high level mob running around, even in low level areas. If you had a quest for that mob it would be impossible to do because the zone would automatically knock you down to a lower level. Power leveling is for gold farmers and lazy people if you ask me , but i won't go on that rant.
PREFACE:
1. Power-levelling and Twinking are functions of opportunity. No ammount of mentoring options etc will remove this, unless you implement specfic coding to ensure this.
2. Code to stop Power-levelling/Twinking will have impact on game-play. In EQ2, it had the effect of putting an artificial 'first to tag only one who can affect mob'. Other rulesets will have equivalent bad effects.
OPTIONS:
1. Mentoring
A: If 'Mentoring' is to be enabled, there needs to be careful consideration of how this may be used to exploit the game.
B: Artificially lowering your level usually exposes scaling issues (which would nbeed to be addressed for both player skills and their gear.)
C: In addition, there will likely be issues with Quests (not always detrimental ones).
D: Players will use this (level change) to farm 'sweet spots' for items/exp unless extreme care is taken.
2. Power Levelling
A: In, and of itself, PL'ing can be 'acceptible' if the exp/faction gain for either party is within 'standard exp ranges'.
B: Exp for mobs/quests must be keyed to the mob, not the PC.
3. Twinknig
A: In many ways, twinking can be way worse than PL'ing. Gear rarely scales well (think 'clickables' on items for eg).
B: It can be 'managed' (and be beneficial) if appropriate changes are made to gear (E.g. gear has a 'recommended' level, or 'skill requirement'. Anyone using the gear with a level significantly lower than this will impose a penalty on its use. This would be used to offset/scale the item usage/benefits.
SOLUTION:
Errr... tricky one.
Most likely any combination of these options, with STRINGENT and ROBUST checks and balances in place, can make it all work.
If you want to help a lvl 6, than have a spare character or two scattered in levels to help others. I don't like the idea of deleveling one bit.. I heard so much talk about 'lets keep this game as realistic as possible'. I.E. In what universe can you go from being 60 years old to 20 to show kids how to really lay it down on a skateboard ?
Personally, I've seen it work out well on other past game experiences when anyone can join anyone. A lvl40 should be able to join a lvl6 and both get exp, as long as the highest lvl character still gets exp. The lower lvl character gets a significant less exp, and if it really is a lvl40 and a lvl6, the lvl6 would be better off solo'n light blues for better exp. But at least this way, the players are socializing and having good, hopefully safer fun. Seeing how, usually, mobs tend to agro the weaker characters with low hp, it could be very unsafe to try and pair up a lvl6 and a lvl40.
Evoras said:PREFACE:
1. Power-levelling and Twinking are functions of opportunity. No ammount of mentoring options etc will remove this, unless you implement specfic coding to ensure this.
2. Code to stop Power-levelling/Twinking will have impact on game-play. In EQ2, it had the effect of putting an artificial 'first to tag only one who can affect mob'. Other rulesets will have equivalent bad effects.
OPTIONS:
1. Mentoring
A: If 'Mentoring' is to be enabled, there needs to be careful consideration of how this may be used to exploit the game.
B: Artificially lowering your level usually exposes scaling issues (which would nbeed to be addressed for both player skills and their gear.)
C: In addition, there will likely be issues with Quests (not always detrimental ones).
D: Players will use this (level change) to farm 'sweet spots' for items/exp unless extreme care is taken.
2. Power Levelling
A: In, and of itself, PL'ing can be 'acceptible' if the exp/faction gain for either party is within 'standard exp ranges'.
B: Exp for mobs/quests must be keyed to the mob, not the PC.
3. Twinknig
A: In many ways, twinking can be way worse than PL'ing. Gear rarely scales well (think 'clickables' on items for eg).
B: It can be 'managed' (and be beneficial) if appropriate changes are made to gear (E.g. gear has a 'recommended' level, or 'skill requirement'. Anyone using the gear with a level significantly lower than this will impose a penalty on its use. This would be used to offset/scale the item usage/benefits.
SOLUTION:
Errr... tricky one.
Most likely any combination of these options, with STRINGENT and ROBUST checks and balances in place, can make it all work.
You can have all three options, though, mentoring is just another way to connect and enjoy the game at someone else's level so they can still experience the game as it was intended, for others, you can twink or power level if that is how you enjoy the game ;)
Reading some of these posts, I could see how I would like mentoring. I'd use it I'm sure, however, I am against it..
I am, however, for an 'adventure band'. Which means 50% exp goes to the character being played at that time, then the remaining 50% exp goes to the alt(s). So if my maxed out char is in an adventure band with one alt, that alt will get the 50% exp. If there are 2 alts, than they only get 25% exp each, providing they're within say 15 lvl's of each other- requiring the player to of played the alt quite a bit before being able to benefit from this feature.
This also allows someone who still wants to work on their main, to have the option to hop on their alt to help a friend, but still get exp to their main they're working hard on..
(I guess I spoke too quickly about the game being 'realistic' or not because this function doesn't seem any more 'realistic' either)
Naim said:NO.
Mentoring is train wreck. Trivializes content for those you are trying to help. NO.
Use alts to play with lower level friends.
Mentoring worked very well in VG and other games, I am not sure what your experience is that you are basing your reply on but it sounds like a bad one, if mentoring is done properly, then you can only mentor down in levels and when you do so it removes any advantage by scaling your spells, abilities, gear, weapons, buffs, AAs etc. all down to the appropriate level, making you are vulnerable as the player you are mentoring down to, it not only helps bring players together but it's just an extra option, you can still power level or twink or use a combination of all three if you want, so I am not sure why you would be flat out against it.
If anything, power leveling and twinking trivializes it more than mentoring, mentoring is the lesser of the three allowing others to play the game as it was intended and still be challenged ;)
Shayken said:If you want to help a lvl 6, than have a spare character or two scattered in levels to help others. I don't like the idea of deleveling one bit.. I heard so much talk about 'lets keep this game as realistic as possible'. I.E. In what universe can you go from being 60 years old to 20 to show kids how to really lay it down on a skateboard ?
Personally, I've seen it work out well on other past game experiences when anyone can join anyone. A lvl40 should be able to join a lvl6 and both get exp, as long as the highest lvl character still gets exp. The lower lvl character gets a significant less exp, and if it really is a lvl40 and a lvl6, the lvl6 would be better off solo'n light blues for better exp. But at least this way, the players are socializing and having good, hopefully safer fun. Seeing how, usually, mobs tend to agro the weaker characters with low hp, it could be very unsafe to try and pair up a lvl6 and a lvl40.
What if you don't, though? Just leave your friend and go off to play by yourself or steamroll everything for them, removing any enjoyment or challenge they might have? How will new players learn if people plow all the content for them?
There are many reasons why mentoring can help but just remember, it would only be an extra option on top of power leveling or twinking, you could ignore it if you didn't want to use it and it would have no impact on you but others may enjoy it.
OOOOOOOOO !!! I forgots ! Maybe we don't need mentoring or adventure bands? Maybe just a zone, or a few designated zones for this specific ability- to help other players of various levels..
This one emulator has this zone where everyone is nerfed. You keep your gear but you're all lvl1 with pretty much all the same stats, so it doesn't matter if you were lvl5 or lvl60 with high end raid gear. in this zone, you are equals. the zone did offer a weapon that was expable- only in that zone and only desired to be used in that zone.
I was not a HUGE fan of the zone, but I was fortunate enough to of gone with friends and kill new content in the zone, turned out the GM's were watching us. So it was fun, very memorable, just a poor emulator that didn't advertise their product well enough.
Great idea, poor execution on their behalf. It was a "gym zone". Hated going, but I enjoyed it once I was there.
I actually like the idea of mentoring, but I dont support the notion of the higher level that is de-leveled still getting xp. Or at least not at any rate that could remotely make it worthwhile. Isnt a system that allows for a player to max their levels without having to actually consume any content meant for their level sort of asnine? Beyond the first handful of a levels obviously, a person could get a character all the way thru to max without ever stepping foot in any later content. I dont get that at all.
Kilsin said:What if you don't, though? Just leave your friend and go off to play by yourself or steamroll everything for them, removing any enjoyment or challenge they might have? How will new players learn if people plow all the content for them?
There are many reasons why mentoring can help but just remember, it would only be an extra option on top of power leveling or twinking, you could ignore it if you didn't want to use it and it would have no impact on you but others may enjoy it.
Very true, in some cases that may happen. But my friends aren't always online, so maybe it'd be helpful to learn a strat, then struggle yourself. Or you struggle first and learn the strat (sometimesss that's way more fun learning) and then get assistence. But again, I see your point. There are pro's and con's of everything and at the end of the day, I'm just gonna be happy to play with what I get, when the time comes
