While I do not have any particular opinion as to whether or not you should be able to kill gods, the level cap seems to be a tougher issue. Horizontal progression has been done to some degree in games like Vanguard, with spheres for adventuring, crafting, and diplomacy. Even then, some folks, myself included, ended up having multiple toons capped in multiple levels. (Although this was mainly due to the fact that there really were no expansions.)
Personally, I think a hybrid of vertical and horizontal progression is necessary and there would need to be at least one sphere where there is no level cap. An example would be a game where you have spheres for adventuring exp, adventuring AA, crafting exp, crafting AA, diplomacy exp, diplomacy AA, harvesting level, harvesting AA, guild exp, and guild AA. Let's say that all spheres are capped at level 50 except guild exp and guild AA. For guild exp and guild AA there are no level caps.
A character could then level (not particularly in this order) adventuring up to 50, work on adventuring AA, then move to diplomacy level and AA and max both of those. They then move to crafting (blacksmithing) and level it to 50, and move on to blacksmithing AA. If they max blacksmithing AA, then it opens up another tradeskill profession (jewelcraft) and they max that and the jewelcraft AA, which opens another profession.
For those who hate tradeskills, or anyone for that matter, they could work toward the uncapped guild level, which is tied to a guild AA system. These guild AA bonuses give all members of the guild a very low level of some utility bonuses, like duration of food and drink or swim speed bonuses, and when a guild maxes these out they can get keys at each level that open up raid encounters that can only be spawned with these keys.
Im not sure if this is a good solution or not, but I would imagine a toon who could potentially level every sphere, including all of the tradeskill professions, and unlimited guild levels, might not find themselves with "nothing" to do. I never understood why most games limit the number of tradeskills anyway. If someone wants to spend years leveling up all tradeskills, let them. It's not like they couldn't just create multiple alts and do it anyway.
Manouk said:I agree with Qendiil's point: Gods are immortal.
If one were to "defeat" their God, it would have to involve painfull and cathartic- questline?- where the characters core beliefs are challenged and they lose faith allowing them to swallow the notion of their God now being a false god and can therefore be defeated- and this is really starting to sound existential- LOL. The character would give up all the blesings previously obtained and lose favor so to speak.
If that dynamic could be represented in game it would certainly be groundbreaking in todays climate.Unless the raid gods were in reality false gods with similar powers as the real gods but created by one of the gods to test the characters, only to have the characters met with their real god questioning why they engaged in such a thing- and creating a broader/bigger deity related questline that the character would need to perform to prove faithfullness.
And THAT could be the mechanism to allow characters to change their deity, ho ho. False god defeated, the god wonders why to the player, player chooses not to go along, player begins to worship another God and this God wisecracks how they saw the player "kill" the other god and the current god being now predisposed to receive the player, provided they do such and so
+1
Real gods should not be killable unless desposed by one, or more, of there own Pantheon.
But avatars, demigods, children of gods, entities, etc. should all be game for raids I think.
The trick with level caps is, as many have said, to ensure there is sufficient horizontal progression *within* the vertical progression.
Text 'open' indicates a new AA/horizontal area is accessible, the 'NAME' is the area of progression.
1. ADVENTURING (Level refers to ADVENTURING level)
Level 5
Quest to open tradeskills (CRAFTING)
Level 10
Quest to open global socials (DIPLOMACY)
Quest to open guild influence and perks (GUILD)
Tier-1 guild functions available / no regional influence
Level 20
Quest to open Surname (DYNASTY)
Can now give character surname; Can now have exp/faction/benefits apply to family (like AA)
Level 25
Quest to open 1st class Mastery
First Class specialism allowed; Allows PARTIAL use of extra colour/class mana spells
Quest to open BATTLE management (GROUP AA's)
Allows access to AA's designed for '1-3 group' content
Level 30
Quest to open Influence (FAME)
Any achivements/accolades etc can be accumulted for recognition; Now able to apply these to DYNASTY
Quest to unlock Mastery AA tier-1
Tier-1 AA's can now be gained
Level 35
Quest to unlock RAID management (GROUP AA's)
Extends access to AA's designed for '2-4 group' content
Level 40
Quest to unlock Mastery AA tier-2
Tier-2 AA's can now be gained
Quest to extend Mastery AA tier-1
Tier-1 AA's can now be extended (in either number or scope)
Quest to unlock ELITE RAID management (GROUP AA's)
Extends access to AA's designed for '3-6 group' content
Level 50
Quest to open 2nd class Mastery
Final Class Mastery accessible; Allows FULL use of extra colour/class mana spells
Quest to unlock Mastery AA tier-3
Tier-3 AA's can now be gained
Quest to extend Mastery AA tier-2
Tier-2 AA's can now be extended (in either number or scope)
2. CRAFTING (Level refers to CRAFTING level)
Level 1
Unlocks title of 'Apprentice XXX' (Eg: XXX = Smith)
Gives access to Tier-1 skills
Level 10
Quest to unlock title of 'Journeyman XXX' (Eg: XXX = Smith)
Access to Tier-2 skills
Level 20
Quest to unlock 1st Specialisation
unlock descriptor 'YYY' (Eg: YYY = Weapon Smith)
Access to Tier-3 skills
Level 25
Quest to unlock title of 'Guilded YYY' (Eg: YYY = Weapon Smith)
Access to more Tier-1 and Tier-2 skills
Level 30
Quest to unlock title of 'Guild Syndic YYY' (Eg: YYY = Weapon Smith)
Access to more Tier-3 skills
Allows casting of 1 ballot in Crafting-Guild elections
Level 40
Quest to unlock 2nd Specialisation
unlock descriptor 'ZZZ' (Eg: ZZZ = Sword Smith)
Access to Tier-4 skills
Allows casting of 3 ballots in Crafting-Guild elections
Allows seconding nominations in Crafting-Guild elections
Level 50
Quest to unlock title of 'Master ZZZ' (Eg: ZZZ = Sword Smith)
Access to Tier-5 skills
Access to more Tier-4 skills
Allows casting of 5 ballots in Crafting-Guild elections
Allows nomination in Crafting-Guild elections
3. DIPLOMACY (Level refers to DIPLOMACYlevel)
4. GUILD (Level refers to GUILD level)
5. DYNASTY (Level refers to DYNASTY level)
6. GROUP (Level refers to GROUP level)
7. FAME (Level refers to FAME level)
Each of these 'horizontal areas' 1-7, has vertical porogression, plus some horizontal within them.
I have 'fleshed out' with a framework only the first 2 of the 7 I suggested.
OakKnower said:Manouk said:I agree with Qendiil's point: Gods are immortal.
If one were to "defeat" their God, it would have to involve painfull and cathartic- questline?- where the characters core beliefs are challenged and they lose faith allowing them to swallow the notion of their God now being a false god and can therefore be defeated- and this is really starting to sound existential- LOL. The character would give up all the blesings previously obtained and lose favor so to speak.
If that dynamic could be represented in game it would certainly be groundbreaking in todays climate.Unless the raid gods were in reality false gods with similar powers as the real gods but created by one of the gods to test the characters, only to have the characters met with their real god questioning why they engaged in such a thing- and creating a broader/bigger deity related questline that the character would need to perform to prove faithfullness.
And THAT could be the mechanism to allow characters to change their deity, ho ho. False god defeated, the god wonders why to the player, player chooses not to go along, player begins to worship another God and this God wisecracks how they saw the player "kill" the other god and the current god being now predisposed to receive the player, provided they do such and so
+1
Real gods should not be killable unless desposed by one, or more, of there own Pantheon.
But avatars, demigods, children of gods, entities, etc. should all be game for raids I think.
+2
Any attacks against a god would need to come from another god, or some other wordly power. A character could contribute by killing priests, followers, avatars and the like, which could weaken said god and open them up for attack - but no deicide by direct means.
I think gods are unkillable by non-deities. However they may test/fight raids/players and reward their efforts or even honor requests if the effort is sufficient.
Level caps should increase at a minimum pace as to not rapidly trivialize content. Trivializing content is inevitable though, but maybe it can be managed.