Hi, Guys
I'm finally getting around to posting something that I think is pretty important. It is to me anyway.
I know MMO's are fantasy games, but I have enjoyed them the most when they are immersive. I think Vanguard did a very good job of this. LOTRO as well. I'm playing EQ again but it's not real immersive. Too many potions and mercs and so on. Very mechanical. I'm having fun at the moment but it's not what it used to be as we all know.
Anyhoo... Something that's been up my crawl sideways for YEARS is the ever evolving level cap.
I want my MMO world to be... well, believable. Immersive.
Playing the game for 5 or 10 years and raiding my own "god" is NOT immersive. IMO.
I think.... There should be a HARD level cap that never moves. I've seen the phrase "lateral progression" on the website. Something Brad said I think. The #s are hypothetical but will illustrate my point.
HARD Level Cap is 50. Over LONG TIME and MUCH killing you can SLOWLY acquire an addition 5 ... "blademaster" levels. For those who follow Wheel of Time that will have more meaning. These 5 higher levels are NOT easy to acquire. VERY DIFFICULT. MOST people may never get more than 1 of them. And, for those who push themselves for greatness, perhaps an additional 5 levels of a "godly" sort. Literally bestowed by your deity for accomplishing quests of intense difficulty and sacrafice. Related to that.. sacrafice is a good word actually. Players who routinely sacrafice themselves in some way for the good of the group or the guild or the raid might perhaps have one of these otherworldly levels/titles bestowed upon them.
What this does is keep the whole game PLAYABLE forever. I log into EQ and go to zones that used to be PACKED. They are now EMPTY. I can solo EVERYTHING in the Planes of Power minus perhaps some Time Bosses. And I could solo them if I knew how to spawn them etc.
This is STUPID IMO. This content was rich. Temple of Veeshan. Always wanted to level there. Raid there. Nobody goes there anymore.
More important than playing in "old" zones is that notion of immersiveness. As a toon I can't kill my Deity. That's crazy. To me that spoils the whole storyline. Causes immersiveness to just blink out of existance. A god is a GOD. (i'm a believer in our Creator. i am not in any way trying to be blasphemous or disrespectful to anyone's Faith) But in our online world.... we have "gods." And we SHOULDN'T be able to kill them. NOT SOLO! EVER. What is the point in having deitys IN the game if in 3 years we can farm them for their 'Robe of Greatness'?
I'd like to hear you guys' thoughts on this topic. I think it's a HUGE drawback to live EQ now days. The economy is WRECKED. Level means NOTHING. It literally means NOTHING. Cause "there's another cap coming..."
To me, the game needs just what I read here somewhere: lateral progression. AAs or something like that.
Related to this is crafting. In a "real," immersive world, armor and weapons would be made by PLAYERS. That's not to say mobs shouldn't drop gear. BUT.... there should be a HARD cap on stats that can be put on gear. For the same reasons I think. Once you go beyond this invisible and unknown plateau of "realness" in levels and gear uberness it all just becomes a #s game. Get that new shield. Farm that Boss's legs. Crafting. Teamwork. Skills. AAs (or something similar). Blademaster level of combat skills. Attaining a Gandalf-level office or title as a caster. These are the things that I personally think would make an MMO AWESOME. And I think Vanguard was headed there or started out going to be headed there.
I do understand that these HARD caps on levels and gear stats creates a big problem for devs and I hope that our Dev team is up for the task!
If you aren't gonna raise levels and pad stats on gear very 6 months or a year, then.... you MUST HAVE IMAGINATION when it comes to creating new content :)
I hope I've made my point and look forward to reading your comments :)
Oh... I just thought of a very good example of what I'm talking about. Lord of the Rings movies.... Human fighters are... HUMAN FIGHTERS. Some are very strong. Some possessed great skills with their blades. But NONE of them - short of a VERY LUCKY swing - was able to SOLO Sauron. PERIOD. And if one would have been able to..... the books would have ended before we ever read them or watched the movies. There wouldn't BE a LOTRO story. Cause someone would have dinged 105 and zoned into Sauron's tower and solo'd him and the WHOLE STORY ENDS. :(
Sorry for being so WINDY lol
Q
I don't see how this keeps people playing? For myself, and many others, the incentive to keep playing is that your character's power level continues to progress.
There is a theoretical limit that will hold peoples attention and keep them playing before they don't feel like they are being rewarded enough for the allotted time. I think this is the scenario you might be suggestion.
I understand where you are coming from. I have run out of content in games many multiple times. I encourage stretching out content to get as much out of it as possible...but there is a limit. A hard cap on stats and a hard cap on levels ends up equaling a mass exodus because there isn't a reasonable incentive to keep people playing.
I get your point too and can see the possible down side to my ... hopes? I've considered that as well. Thus the need for DEEP IMAGINATION in the game devs! lol
Yeah I don't know what the solution for.... STATflation is. Or if there really is one. But I HOPE I can never solo my deity in Pantheon!
Q within you're Idea do we as players get to choose our own God to worship ?
If so, should it be attached to guilds ? ...in other words a guild concensus on what God will be worshipped . This way everyone in the guild believes in the same God and maybe gets a perk for doing so maybe a protection . Other Gods IF even killable at all (which I feel they should not be) are fair game. Are the Gods enemies of one another ?
In EQ, we got to choose our "gods" IIRC. Most of the time anyway. There may have been a few classes that didnt offer a choice. I chose Tunare for my High Elf.
As for me, I'd like to see everyone get to choose, yes. Of course, back then there were consequences for choosing this god or that sometimes. Not as pronounced as race/class
I don't think gods "warred" in EQ, but in a "real" MMO world I think they would occasionally. Would probaly open up more problems than they'd want to fix, though. /shrug
IDEALLY a guild would be all "evil" or all "good" maybe. I'm not saying I want that. I've always had friends across the whole spectrum of class/race/deity.
I agree that "gods" should not - generally - be killable. They are... Immortals. We shouldn't be able to kill them I think. I agree with you.
BUT IF YOU CAN... it's gonna take a MAX RAID. And what happens if you can and do kill a "god?" What happens to all their followers? There are usually blessings of some sort along the way for followers of deity. Opens up a can of worms probably best left alone.
When you put "GODS" into a MMO, yer sort of laying concrete foundations that are not movable I think. IMO
First off, Qendiil, I had to re-arrange your post because you interspersed different points into the same paragraphs. I've separated your ideas to make responding to them easier.
Qendiil said:As a toon I can't kill my Deity. That's crazy. To me that spoils the whole storyline. Causes immersiveness to just blink out of existance. A god is a GOD. (i'm a believer in our Creator. i am not in any way trying to be blasphemous or disrespectful to anyone's Faith) But in our online world.... we have "gods." And we SHOULDN'T be able to kill them. NOT SOLO! EVER. What is the point in having deitys IN the game if in 3 years we can farm them for their 'Robe of Greatness'?
I want my MMO world to be... well, believable. Immersive.
Playing the game for 5 or 10 years and raiding my own "god" is NOT immersive. IMO.
Ok. So don't go on a raid to kill your own god then if you believe it is not immersive. So just because you don't like it you think nobody else should be able to do it? These game are about choices. Don't take away my choice just because you don't like the option.
Qendiil said:I think.... There should be a HARD level cap that never moves. I've seen the phrase "lateral progression" on the website. Something Brad said I think. The #s are hypothetical but will illustrate my point.
HARD Level Cap is 50. Over LONG TIME and MUCH killing you can SLOWLY acquire an addition 5 ... "blademaster" levels. For those who follow Wheel of Time that will have more meaning. These 5 higher levels are NOT easy to acquire. VERY DIFFICULT. MOST people may never get more than 1 of them. And, for those who push themselves for greatness, perhaps an additional 5 levels of a "godly" sort. Literally bestowed by your deity for accomplishing quests of intense difficulty and sacrafice. Related to that.. sacrafice is a good word actually. Players who routinely sacrafice themselves in some way for the good of the group or the guild or the raid might perhaps have one of these otherworldly levels/titles bestowed upon them.
What this does is keep the whole game PLAYABLE forever. I log into EQ and go to zones that used to be PACKED. They are now EMPTY. I can solo EVERYTHING in the Planes of Power minus perhaps some Time Bosses. And I could solo them if I knew how to spawn them etc.
Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but your idea of those additional 5 levels just being 'very difficult' just means it takes time..and eventually more people that you realize will..will..have all of them. It is inevitable. Never under estimate the lengths players will go to achieve a goal.
Qendiil said:This is STUPID IMO. This content was rich. Temple of Veeshan. Always wanted to level there. Raid there. Nobody goes there anymore.
More important than playing in "old" zones is that notion of immersiveness.
You realize that you contradict yourself, yes? You want a level cap at 50 to never move..but yet you add 5 more levels which are only 'very difficult' to obtain which means eventually everyone that wants those levels will get them and as such those additional levels will, in all likelyhood, trivialize all content not designed with those additional levels in mind..so all that content will now go unused by that population.
Qendiil said:I'd like to hear you guys' thoughts on this topic. I think it's a HUGE drawback to live EQ now days. The economy is WRECKED. Level means NOTHING. It literally means NOTHING. Cause "there's another cap coming..."
The economy isn't 'wrecked' because of of the now level 100 cap. On the live servers the economies are wrecked because people have had nearly 2 decades to amass wealth. RMT and gold selling had more an effect than level increases.
Qendiil said:To me, the game needs just what I read here somewhere: lateral progression. AAs or something like that.
Well you are in luck. Go read up on the horizontal progression because that is a fundamental tenant of the game. It does not, however, completely rule out level cap increases in the future. Those will absolutely happen at some point. Horizontal can only take you so far.
Qendiil said:Related to this is crafting. In a "real," immersive world, armor and weapons would be made by PLAYERS. That's not to say mobs shouldn't drop gear. BUT.... there should be a HARD cap on stats that can be put on gear. For the same reasons I think. Once you go beyond this invisible and unknown plateau of "realness" in levels and gear uberness it all just becomes a #s game. Get that new shield. Farm that Boss's legs. Crafting. Teamwork. Skills. AAs (or something similar). Blademaster level of combat skills. Attaining a Gandalf-level office or title as a caster. These are the things that I personally think would make an MMO AWESOME. And I think Vanguard was headed there or started out going to be headed there.
I do understand that these HARD caps on levels and gear stats creates a big problem for devs and I hope that our Dev team is up for the task!
Read up on crafting because it will not be the end-all be-all you want it to be. Crafted, dropped, raided and quested will all be utilized for obtain items. Given the need for 'situational' gear, what is considered 'best' for one area will not be 'best' for another area. And how you obtain them cand, and will vary, throughout the levels.
Qendiil said:Oh... I just thought of a very good example of what I'm talking about. Lord of the Rings movies.... Human fighters are... HUMAN FIGHTERS. Some are very strong. Some possessed great skills with their blades. But NONE of them - short of a VERY LUCKY swing - was able to SOLO Sauron. PERIOD. And if one would have been able to..... the books would have ended before we ever read them or watched the movies. There wouldn't BE a LOTRO story. Cause someone would have dinged 105 and zoned into Sauron's tower and solo'd him and the WHOLE STORY ENDS. :(
Yeah...ok. Not sure you really understand that games are different than books...
I fully agree with your comment about "killing" one's own God.
This is clearly a matter of consistence and immersion indeed.
First it is of course impossible to "kill" a God. If it was possible then this entity is not a God. Call it spirit, mage, monster or whatever but not God.
Second it is of course stupid and inconsistent to "kill" a God that one worships. Why would anybody want to "kill" a God that is worshipped by him? It can be imagined that one first goes heretic or agnostic but it makes no sense to be worshipper and "killer" at the same time.
Third a God would immediately detect and punish, possibly kill, a worshipper who is planning to "kill" Him before he even starts the attempt.
The EQ decision in PoP simply destroyed the system of Deities and Faiths by making it inconsistent and unbelievable. If immersion and consistence belong to the tenets of a game (and it does for Pantheon), it shouldn't be possible to attack, let alone "kill", Gods that a player worships as long as he worships them.
I will start by stating that I do appreciate your passion in trying to find a way to make great games last forever. I just don't think I agree for the most part.
level increases combined with AA exp (lateral expansion) I think works just fine. While I do agree that many areas in EQ are sadly barren, I feel in the case of EQ, it simply has lived way beyond its years. Ideally imo, EQ would have been shelved years ago and replaced with a new and improved version. Sadly most of its predecessors reinvented the genre into a shell of itself, but if a good EQ stylish game would have come out then EQ would not have had to be put on life support for so long.
The god killing and game immersion is a matter of preference I suppose. For me, if I start off worshiping Tunare then decide to try to kill Tunare later than that's my own personal immersive story. I think a perfect example is this game itself. According to the lore, if I'm not mistaken, the Myr race's God saved the Myr by giving them legs and lungs, then the Myr came out of the water and killed their own God for mutating their bodies even though it was only to save them. If the core lore of Pantheon kills off their own god then I guess it's reasonable, and immersive, for others to as well.
There will be some things that lean in the direction of the OP but not to that degree I think.
1. Horizontal progression: This includes situational gear, AAs and the Progeny system.
2. We havent heard specifics, but the devs have said they want to keep existing zones relavent. So this makes me think having various level ranges of content and even frequent use of new features or quests that take you back to old zones.
3. I dont know for sure but I expect this game to have a slow and shallow power curve. So while level caps might keep increasing, it might be a lot slower, with smaller number increases.
On the topic of immersion and killing one's own god, I agree with your sentiment at least. However, if they allow a player to kill their own god, it should be a decision of consequence.
As to the topic of soloing a god, they could address that by having them become more powerful as players become more powerful. With each expansion, the realm of the gods could be spruced up, have new content and mechanics added, and could increase the strength and level of the mob itself. That would address that issue.
Regarding progression and levels, as Vandraad pointed out, Pantheon will feature a slew of new ways to progress your character outside of levels alone. They have mentioned different forms of specialization, and alternate advancement. They should offer advancement that is meaningful, and thus will come with an increase to power.
Players must become more powerful. Yes, that means some content will become trivialized. With gods specifically, there are ways to avoid that like I mentioned above.
Deadshade said:I fully agree with your comment about "killing" one's own God.
This is clearly a matter of consistence and immersion indeed.
First it is of course impossible to "kill" a God. If it was possible then this entity is not a God. Call it spirit, mage, monster or whatever but not God.
Second it is of course stupid and inconsistent to "kill" a God that one worships. Why would anybody want to "kill" a God that is worshipped by him? It can be imagined that one first goes heretic or agnostic but it makes no sense to be worshipper and "killer" at the same time.
Third a God would immediately detect and punish, possibly kill, a worshipper who is planning to "kill" Him before he even starts the attempt.
The EQ decision in PoP simply destroyed the system of Deities and Faiths by making it inconsistent and unbelievable. If immersion and consistence belong to the tenets of a game (and it does for Pantheon), it shouldn't be possible to attack, let alone "kill", Gods that a player worships as long as he worships them.
Actually, if established by lore that gods are susceptible to harm, they can be killed. That actually falls in line with earth stories and legends regarding gods (take note - small "g" gods). What are considered gods are technically demi-gods.
Still, I agree, if someone chooses to kill the god they worship, they should no longer be able to serve him or her. At that point, they should have to choose another deity or become agnostic and suffer the consequences (like a loss of quests or powers that are a bestowed from following that god).
I agree with Qendiil's point: Gods are immortal.
If one were to "defeat" their God, it would have to involve painfull and cathartic- questline?- where the characters core beliefs are challenged and they lose faith allowing them to swallow the notion of their God now being a false god and can therefore be defeated- and this is really starting to sound existential- LOL. The character would give up all the blesings previously obtained and lose favor so to speak.
If that dynamic could be represented in game it would certainly be groundbreaking in todays climate.Unless the raid gods were in reality false gods with similar powers as the real gods but created by one of the gods to test the characters, only to have the characters met with their real god questioning why they engaged in such a thing- and creating a broader/bigger deity related questline that the character would need to perform to prove faithfullness.
And THAT could be the mechanism to allow characters to change their deity, ho ho. False god defeated, the god wonders why to the player, player chooses not to go along, player begins to worship another God and this God wisecracks how they saw the player "kill" the other god and the current god being now predisposed to receive the player, provided they do such and so
To make a game last longer, you have to keep people busy. To do so, can mean expacs / content, levels etc.. so make that perfectly clear.
To not do any of the above bores people, to move onto something else different.
To prove my point, games such as Wow has expacs, levels and caps increased over the years of play.
To prove it again, rift, eq, etc... so many others. All of which have been successful.
If you want to cap the levels that is fine, but you need to give people something different then, and doing so could mean stats, AA's or soft caps. To do none of the above bores people to death.
Just adding in expac doesnt mean its going to keep people happy, you have to combo all of it together. Different = good.
As far as gods killing? well it doesnt have to be killing them, it can be demi gods, or minions but with something taken from that god.
/nodding
I understand a hard cap IS a source of issues /nod
The moral dilemma of killing your god is not really my problem I guess now that you have me thinking about it. It IS a dilemma I agree, but not the true "problem" I've tried to address.
It's that ... in MY perfect MMO world... it's a very believable and immersive world. Gear is "real." Skills/levels are "real." Landscape and travel are "real." When it gets to be a lot like current EQ and somewhat UNbelievable... I might as well go back and play EQ. I've got 9 years (real time/years played) invested there. 10K AA. One of the fastest mounts in the game if not the fastest. When me or any other SINGLE person can go back and SOLO a "end game" style BOSS, something is WRONG. In any "real" or believable world, a man... a humanoid with 2 legs and 2 arms... is only going to get SO STRONG. The limits of DNA and muscularture(?) demand this. THIS is what I like about OLD EQ. There were limits for toons. Not so any more. I can SOLO EVERYTHING in the EQ Universe up til about 5 expansions ago. AND... Eventually I'll be able to SOLO EVERYTHING IN THE GAME TODAY!
This leaves only one possible conculusion... when I THOUGHT my newly rolled Paladin was a full grown man.. rookie mind you, but a fully grown MAN... I was confused. I was actually 2. I'm not sure HOW i picked up that rusty steel short sword, but this is the only viable possibility. Otherwise.... my now level 105 Paladin is in fact a saturday morning cartoon like Captain America or Spider Man or Super Man. Which is a CARTOON and a COMIC BOOK HERO. NOT an immersive MMO. To me, there's a BIG difference. Isn't that what WoW looks like? A cartoon? Isn't that one of the big things a LOT of EQ players have never liked about WoW???
Bear in mind I KNOW this is a MMO.... onlin GAME. I get that. I also know that gear in EQ now is SO EASY to come by it almost means NOTHING. Just the opposite of what the first replyer said.... I want to build my toon up and be proud of what I've done and become. If gear is CONSTANTLY being STATpadded and replaced and made obsolete VERY expansion... you aren't accomplishing anything. Yer just going round and round on a gerbil wheel. Just exactly what we're doing in EQ now....
NO THANKS, Guys
I'm VERY HOPEFUL for this game, obviously, but if that's where it's going, my career will be short lived.
And just one more thought.... I've heard a FEW people tell us how they quit EQ after 2 or 3 years.... right in the middle of EQ's PEAK. Kunark. Velious. Even Luclin and PoP. If you quit during Velious? You aren't gonna stick with this game either I must assume. I came in after Velious and I have spent 15 years lamenting not being able to raid Velious. Temple of Veeshan. That was the VERY BEST EQ ever offered I THINK. That's what I've gleaned from reading many, many posts about OLD EQ. So if you quit then... not sure if this or ANY game is going to quench your thirst. :o
I feel for ALL OF YOU GUYS, even that first replyer... I want your efforts to MEAN SOMETHING as well! I want those gains to COUNT. I want you to be .... to feel good about what you've accomplished. Even if you eclipse me and I'm a fraction of the player you are. But if the gear is just EverPadded... what's the point? Nothing really means anything :(
In a "REAL" MMO world... one with laws of physics and rules for existence... every MAN will reach a limit of what he can become physically. Both skill and physical atttribute. An Iksar can be MUCH stronger, but.... will eventually reach the end of the road for physical and skill development. A troll and ogre likewise... they will outgun the human and Iksar - the Ogre at least - but..... WILL come to an end of themselves. For me this isn't a problem. It's a PLUS. It means when I buy that next expansion, I'm GETTING SOMETHING. I'm getting IMAGINATION! I'm getting CREATIVITY. I'm getting ACCOMPLISHMENT. In EQ... we just get more padded stats. More endless gear drops. More Anniversary quests that we go back and solo 5 years later. We farm ever increasing STATS on EVER INCREASING ARMOR. .... WHERE does it end? WHY do this? I'm asking myself this now in EQ, guys. You don't want a game that goes where EQ is now, trust me.
I'm gonna stop. I could go on and on and on but I'm boring you guys now.
I remember over the years reading in Alla all the strats and walk thru's posted by the EARLY Guilds and players as they figured out the EQ world. I started playing at 35. I was AMAZED at the depth of the quests that these people figured out. They had to keep nots. Pictures. Accounts. Word for word. For months. YEARS. Then came Luclin and PoP.... then came the END of REAL EQ. And it's done nothing but go down hill ever since. They traded challenge and risk/reward for much quicker gratification and never ending gear races.
One thing I LOVE about EQ... there is no 1st place. Nobody WINS! We ALL win. Or we all lose. Or at least that's how it was played a LONG TIME AGO. :)
I'm done. Sorry for the tirade lol
Q
ps- I have appreciated your comments. Even the few totally opposed to my notions. I won't drag this out again. In the end we all have our own tastes. And it's right that we should. But IF this game takes the SAME path EQ has, just at a MUCH SLOWER PACE? Then it's EQ all over again, just at a MUCH SLOWER PACE. LOL I for one am not interested in that. I think MOST of you are also not interested in going down that same road. I don't know what the solution is.
Well... yes I do. Our game devs MUST have imagination and creativity and they MUST LOVE TO PLAY THEIR OWN GAME! 8D
Best wishes and see you in another Forum! ;)
In regards to god killing, I always thought that whole thing was pretty silly. It doesn’t make sense that gods can die, they should be immortal. It reminds me of a joke on old EQ where people would make fun of dark elves saying “How great can your god possibly be when he keeps getting his butt handed to him every few days.”
It would make more sense if, instead of gods being able to fight, they would have a champion that fights for them. So, for instance, if you went to the Plane of Hate, instead of Innoruuk being the final boss, it would be whoever Innoruuk chose to be his champion.
And I think this would play out better in the long run, cause when you have level cap increases, and everyone is higher level and much more powerful, the gods can either make their champion stronger, or do away with him and choose a new, more powerful champion. This way you won’t have people eventually soloing gods, or even going in with small groups. The mobs in the planes can be upgraded in a way that makes sense.
Kromiv said:In regards to god killing, I always thought that whole thing was pretty silly. It doesn’t make sense that gods can die, they should be immortal.
Unless the gods are not really the end all of the power scale. It's not hard for me to imagine a bunch of very powerful creatures/aliens coming to a world and claiming to be all mighty because they are stronger than the inhabitants of said world, but in reality their power as limits and the so called gods can be killed.
Here is a thought. I think the OP has some interesting ideas. Will they work? I don’t know. I wonder if the god issue as far as killing him should come at a steep price. Faction hit from hell so to speak. You go after your own and it will cost you. Just a thought.
I wonder if there could be quests from rival gods to kill others. I am not sure that has been done before.
The level cap issue is a mess to be honest. If you slow progression in a creative way maybe there could be quest chains and such to get you ready for the next expac or content release however that works out. I don’t know how to make getting to the level cap more rewarding and taking long time to do it without upsetting those that would like to get there in ten minutes.
Just some thoughts on this one.
Interesting post
Ox
Another possible idea for this would be to identify that content (deities, mobs, NPC's, quests, etc.) which should never become trivialized.
Let's use EQ as a simple example: IMO, Nagafen should never have bee trivialized. Nor should plane of Time raids. Not everything but some top-end raid content should never become trivial. I think this includes all major full deities. Maybe even epic quests.
OK, once you've identified and flagged something as never-trivial, then it needs to level up.
So, when the game started, Nagafen was "top dog" and end-game content, designed for a world filled with level 50 players. When the next expansion came out that bumped players to, say, level 60 Nagafen should have levelled up 20% so he is sitll "top dog" for the playerbase.
At some point SOE went in and mass-adjusted all the original deities because it was stupid that players were higher level than their deity: I mean should Tunare ever be light blue to a Druid?
So, this should be automatic for certain things.
In a world of magic and fantasy, the only difference between the Gods and the subjects is that the Gods possess much more magic than the subjects. With this in mind it is not inconceivable that the ones referred to as Gods are not immortal, just extremely powerful beings that have powers to overcome death. If you want to be all technical and claim you should never be able to kill a God (Assuming they are immortal beings) then as mortal players, we should never "respawn" after death.
In Game, one should face dire consequences for battling and/or killing their own God.
The issue with killing gods is an easy fix. They can use gods as bosses and we can beat them back. Lots of games do this for lore purposes. You don't kill them you just stop them from conquering the world and force them to retreat back to their own plane of existance.
As for level caps, an expanding game will always increase caps at some point. You can only go so far with horizontal progression. For me I would ideally like to see the original game followed by an expac that was all horizontal. Give us AAs, new gear, higher soft caps on stats, etc to still give us the power creep but we don't need 5-10 more levels every expac. But even if there is ONLY horizontal progress, which we know won't happen, eventually the beginning stuff will start to become very weak and soloable. There is no way to stop that without increasing their power as well.
@OP - You are comparing modern new games to a game that has been going for nearly 20 years. I mean think about it this way, you say you can solo bosses from 5 expacs ago, but that was over 5 years worth of updates. Levels, gear, stats, AAs ... all of which no one had then. So why would you think that you couldn't do those things? This is a problem in every game that has been long running. Hell i can log into wow right now and go solo raid bosses from the last expac. This is not something new in mmos. I hope that content can be kept some what relevant but eventually this will always inevitably happen.
I don't have a problem with slaying your own god as long as you take huge faction hits while killing things in the zone. One thing EQ missed out on is adjustable deity faction.
What would be even cooler is classes that typically are granted powers by their god (priest, etc) would become "fallen" and are now evil opposites.
