Spatial Combat, Spatial Abilities, and Spatial Awareness
When I started writing this, I was going to work on it over a few days before posting it for peer review. While I love the enthusiasm of this community, sometimes the ideas (especially new ones) can be met with quick refusal. But, after putting it (at least the first draft) down on paper, I think if the community likes the idea I would like to know it and have their opinion. So, the rough draft is below.
Reading descriptions of the team’s vision for combat has lead me to believe that what I am writing about may be already in the works. If that is the case, this will hopefully serve as a codification of the team’s vision. This isn’t suggested to stray away from the game’s more traditional combat mechanics, but is a suggestion that may compliment it.
I do not think we can rely solely on building a game based on Everquest style mechanics. I believe the team thinks that there has to be some level of innovation. Ergo, the mana climate system.
Let’s start with a couple of assumptions:
I’ve been thinking about this for quite some time, but am still trying to realize exactly how it will manifest itself. Finally, I hope this spawns some really creative ideas as to what can be done here.
Directional
This class of spatial abilities are used to direct where the combat takes place. They aren’t necessarily used to damage mobs. For example, a wall of fire/stone/ice is placed between the tanks and the healers to allow separation for the healers, casters, or ranged fighters. The type of wall can be used in conjunction with the mana climate or be based on the geography of the zone. It could be used to block an entrance into or out of a room. There could be a cloud of confusion or darkness where the mobs must find their way out before they become spatially aware. I’ve read throughout lore of various MMOs about the druid’s connection with nature – this is a perfect system to realize the lore. Area of wind that pushes mobs back, temporary quick sand that makes mobs immobile, or vines that entangle their prey.
Defensive
I think this is largely targeted for the healers and fighters. A warrior could taunt all of the mob in a targeted area. A tank’s skill places himself between the mobs and the group and is able to prevent anyone from passing. A healer class puts a magic shield around an area where the fighting is the thickest forcing casters and ranged mobs to have to engage in closer combat or be left out of the fray.
Offensive
I will admit these would be more a traditional AoE, but, again, they are targeted.
An example of “Putting it all together”:
The group is in a dungeon with 2 adjacent rooms and a hall way. The strategy could be that two walls are formed to prevent the mobs from the rooms from joining the fight for a short time. Then, the room is cleared by tank, spanking, and nuking. The first barrier to one room goes down just as the middle room is cleared. However, a wall of fire is placed to protect the casters, healers, and ranged players while the second room is cleared. Right as the first adjacent room is cleared the second room breaks free and the fight is turning in the mobs favor. However, the group new this fight would not be easy and uses the hallway as a bottle neck for the last chance is to have the warrior taunt all of the enemies directly in front of him. This works because the group planned to use the hallway as a bottle neck. This allows just enough time for the fight to end with everyone safe.
Thoughts???? Go easy on me if this is terrible! Hah.
Vandraad said:If the mobs cannot attack and thus break these walls of yours, they will be absurdly overpowered. The wall should also exist as an aggro-able object similar to that of a player, meaning mobs treat it as if that caster were standing at that spot.
I agree with the concern about it being too over powered, but it can have a timer or be destoyed. So, yes, by all means let the mobs target it. I don't envision it as an unbreakable wall.
As long as the abilities are subject to a level check like everything else, they could work. For instance, if you throw a wall up in front of a mob 5 levels higher than you, they should destroy it quickly. A mob 10 levels above you should just knock it down. Otherwise, such an ability could be really overpowered.
The other stuff is somewhat like traditional area effect abilities.
One of the problems I have with area of effect spells is that they can basically be exploited in a PvE game. I've never liked the idea that you can effect a lot of mobs with an ability without it hurting your own players. The inability to basically exploit such mechanics is one of the things I liked about Rallos Zek. People used their aoe abilities, but they had to be smart about it and coordinate with their group.
Dullahan said:One of the problems I have with area of effect spells is that they can basically be exploited in a PvE game. I've never liked the idea that you can effect a lot of mobs with an ability without it hurting your own players. The inability to basically exploit such mechanics is one of the things I liked about Rallos Zek. People used their aoe abilities, but they had to be smart about it and coordinate with their group.
Agreed with this 100%, i would like to see AoE DPS and skills in general much less effective than what it has been in the past. Even as someone who plays an enchanter i would still put my hand up to see the end of things like AoE Mez or if not the end a massively reduced timer compared to the single target mez. AoE in general makes RPG gaming to easy and ends up removing the need for most classes utilities and all the niche skills we love so much, its become all about dropping AoE bombs and Stuns and Roots and doing it all as quikcly as possible.
The only powerful AoE spells in my opinion should be buffs and heals, and even then AoE heals should be very mana heavy and feasable for Oh S*** moments only.
To the OP's concept for a wall to be used as a defensive measure seems like it is on the way regarding the Cleric spell that has been proposed, If the wall was effective to stop a group of Mobs I would hope these sort of things only buy you about 5-10 seconds max i guess, enough time for a few CC skills to be unleashed and the group to regain control of a dire situation.
I think the wall thing is a cool idea. You can even add other mechanics to them. A fire wall will have a Fire Damage shield that damages a mob as it attacks the wall.
Heck, even walls that don't work as obstacles by only as static AOE spells would be neat. Much like NeverWinter Nights 2, Wall of Swords.
But that's another topic.
As others have said, easy to make it too overpowered. Would certainly need to be dispelled, or easily broken. Maybe as a last ditch effort.
I'm not sure that they would be too over powered. Remember, these will be only supporting skills that would allow for players to use their imagination and creativity as to how to win. You have a group of abilities tailored for each class (or limited to supporting classes) that help shape the area of which the foray is taking place. Groups lacking a healing only class could organically find new ways to make their way through the content. Better yet - group with a supportive healing class could organically find new ways to make their way through the content. They could be just as much with a group that actually has a healing only class. I see no problem allowing for other ways to clear content. Heck, if creative use of skills allows for a more effective group, then I say I am all in. Isn't that what the whole intent of the style we are looking for? I am just proposing something that integrates the world with your skills. I am not at all proposing running through a long cavern using AoE after AoE to just quickly dispatch mobs. I am saying quite the opposite.
I don't think these have to be abilities that last only a few seconds. Remember assumption one - slower combat. I am assuming the team's end goal is actually to have longer battles that require a significant more amount of thought. These abilities can have longer cooldown timers to ensure they are only used for their intended purposes - to shape the area and direction of which a fight takes place to allow for more effective, or alternative ways to dispatch your foe(s). These skills aren't made to be walls that are chain casted by one person.
Hokanu, think of it this way - Instead of "o crap" moments after the battle has begun, you see a room (or area) of mobs and say "o crap" at the beginning and then start to strategize about the use of your spatial abilities with regards to the impending fight to avoid an "o crap" moment during the fight.
I didn't want to get too into the weeds with actual skills until there was an understanding of the concept.
VR is actually already planning abilities like this with the Cleric's [Manifest: Pillar Shield]. High level Clerics can manifest, place and even carry massive Pillar Shields. These huge, luminous walls of energy form towering, immovable barriers that, for a limited duration, no enemy can pass. But, if desired, the Cleric can choose to sheath his weapon so that he may carry the Pillar Shield short distances to a better position before resuming the fight.
However, these kinds of abilities must still be approached with caution lest they be heavily exploited should they allow players to block mobs off for more than a "limited duration" without being subject to some check (like resist checks) like a root spell. There is a reason that landing roots and snares on mobs considerably higher level than you was impossible in EQ.