Curently playing on the new everquest progression server and ive never raided in velious before. So i go to plane of growth raid with guild and ruin my faction and find out later that its irreversable!!! now i cant do the plane of growth quests. I vote that Unreversable factions not be in pantheon. and please tell me there is some long lost quest that i can do to raise this faction :P
Nope. You are out of luck on faction with all PoG mobs/npcs. You can fix your factions with the Tunare factions in Felwithe and Kelethin for those quests via the muffin quest in frprt. I dont mind having an area where faction is irreversible but I wouldnt want to be the first one to find out :P
This is one of those we have to wait and see what VR has in store for us. I think faction is an interesting method of character development and it can really hose you if your out doing raids as mentioned above. I almost forgot about the muffin quests. LOL.
I am curious also to see if this sort of faction based dynamic will be in Pantheon.
Ox
You should be able to fix all but your Servants of Tunare faction. I believe the only relevant faction outside of Growth is Faydark champions, and that is easy to fix. Two of the other three can be fixed as well.
http://wiki.project1999.com/Clerics_of_Tunare
http://wiki.project1999.com/Soldiers_of_Tunare
http://wiki.project1999.com/Faydarks_Champions
Thats assuming live factions are still working as they did during that era.
I'm not a fan of factions you can permanently destroy unless there is a reason behind it and you know the ramifications beforehand. I do believe EQ factions were too easy to flip and your choices should be given more weight.
munge said:Curently playing on the new everquest progression server and ive never raided in velious before. So i go to plane of growth raid with guild and ruin my faction and find out later that its irreversable!!! now i cant do the plane of growth quests. I vote that Unreversable factions not be in pantheon. and please tell me there is some long lost quest that i can do to raise this faction :P
Actions should have consequences. Some of those consequences can (and should) be severe.
Clearly you started off non-KOS there, so probably a follower of Tunare. Think about it from her perspective. Tunare is your diety, she brought your species into the world, protected your race against the evils of the world asking nothing in return for her benevolence. And what do you do to thank her? Go into her plane and brutally murder her creations so people who follow Innoruuk, Cazic Thule, Solusek Ro and even Bertoxxulous can get some fancy weapons and armor...and you think that her becoming permanently pissed at you is excessive?
Tunare followers were special because no other faction was non-KOS in the plane of their diety (even the good dieties like Mithanial Marr hated everyone). Solusek Ro, technically a neutral diety in most respects, hated his own followers.
Sorry. But you had a choice of not attacking anything. You could have played scout or some other non-combat role and kept your faction and it's rewards intact. Don't run off to the developers crying.
Pantheon developers, be sure there are choices like this for us to make. Some actions should never be forgiven or forgotten.
Vandraad said:munge said:Curently playing on the new everquest progression server and ive never raided in velious before. So i go to plane of growth raid with guild and ruin my faction and find out later that its irreversable!!! now i cant do the plane of growth quests. I vote that Unreversable factions not be in pantheon. and please tell me there is some long lost quest that i can do to raise this faction :P
Actions should have consequences. Some of those consequences can (and should) be severe.
Clearly you started off non-KOS there, so probably a follower of Tunare. Think about it from her perspective. Tunare is your diety, she brought your species into the world, protected your race against the evils of the world asking nothing in return for her benevolence. And what do you do to thank her? Go into her plane and brutally murder her creations so people who follow Innoruuk, Cazic Thule, Solusek Ro and even Bertoxxulous can get some fancy weapons and armor...and you think that her becoming permanently pissed at you is excessive?
Tunare followers were special because no other faction was non-KOS in the plane of their diety (even the good dieties like Mithanial Marr hated everyone). Solusek Ro, technically a neutral diety in most respects, hated his own followers.
Sorry. But you had a choice of not attacking anything. You could have played scout or some other non-combat role and kept your faction and it's rewards intact. Don't run off to the developers crying.
Pantheon developers, be sure there are choices like this for us to make. Some actions should never be forgiven or forgotten.
Very well said, and I can't help but agree.That would make for a much more interesting game world. It would definitely be in the spirit of role play and would likely enstill real patriotism in players.
However, I could see this being extremely problematic to implement unless Pantheon is going to very clearly discourage players from guilding with races of opposing idealogies from the very start. Outside of maybe a faction or race based PvP server, that might be tough to do. It would have to be something you explain thoroughly at character select accompanied by multiple Yes/No message boxes warning players. It just seems unlikely.
Strongly disagree with the Plane of Growth model. Call it Story/Gameplay segregation, or just not being malicious to your players, but the biggest problem with Growth was community impact.
The light v dark choice in Dragons of Norrath was fine, mostly. My guild had druids and a moderately lore-sensitive cleric who acceded to helping the dark side there; after all, they chunked around with a pack of shadowknights and iksar. While grindy, if needed, they could always swap later.
But we simply could not raid Growth when it was content. Our tanks and dps were already kos, but our healers were druids and elves and unwilling to permanently forsake their homes for one zone of content, especially knowing that ALL content ages out. Our options were to forsake content or break our community, so we didn't raid Growth. And that's a bad model, and I think it's why later "good" gods were presented in ways that permitted them to be antagonistic.
Factions are good. CHOICES are good. Choices you can never undue are bad. Imagine if the DoN faction split was irreversible, or if staying +PoG had more effects later. What happens if your guild fails, but the one you want to join made the other decision? Now, you're unwelcome.
Xaleban said:Nope. You are out of luck on faction with all PoG mobs/npcs. You can fix your factions with the Tunare factions in Felwithe and Kelethin for those quests via the muffin quest in frprt. I dont mind having an area where faction is irreversible but I wouldnt want to be the first one to find out :P
Yup if you really care about regaining a faction you messed up...that's how we did it. Hours of white wolf skins handed in ..in Halas because I kept killing a named wolf ..killed my faction that I needed to do the first epic quest (that I was unaware of at the time..) Lesson learned the hard way. lol Handing in goblin heads and beads and such to the dwarves so I could enter their stronghold, long hours of killing crystal spiders and the giants, so that I could be an ally of the dragons in that castle near Cobalt Scar (forgive me it has been many long years forgotten the name). My guild was KOS in that castle...I was able to bank and buy from vendors there. It was challenging, had to find a way to survive doing some of those hand ins. Invisible spell helped me many times.
Cana
On the topic of faction, how do you guys feel about quests such as the belt/shoulder pads from orcs, bones from skellys, bandages, etc. that would allow people who had plat to PL the first few lvls by buying these items and just turning them in?
I did enjoy the ability to lvl alts this way and the constant addition to the economy, /ooc WTS Belts 2.5 Plat each.
Not sure if this would go against the tenant of lvls being meaningful if this was added, but it WAS in EQ so I'm torn.
Depends how that plat was received...did you buy it? Then you are maintaining the existence of the plat and gold sellers. :P Personally I don't buy powerlevelling services, I don't buy plat or gold, and I have NEVER bought or sold an account to get a level capped character. My first character in EQ from release is still there...same age as Everquest. I play her from time to time. And I do my own faction quests (that means getting the materials myself) I don't even power level my alts lol. But my view is that I am on a voyage of discovery, and that includes everything done myself to get there. :) I guess I'm kinda old school. BUT I also help newbies when they need my help. That promotes community and friendships. :) And I can always do with yet another friend. :) Keep in mind this is my own way of doing things. Others do things differently of course. :)
P1999EQLandmark said:Not talking about plat buying at all, more about the ability to speed through things because of develpoment on a main character. Although you mentioning PLing also makes me wonder how efficiently high levels will be able to PL. If it's like EQ, game on.
From what I can tell..you won't be able to get level 40 or 50 in a few hours, far as I know anyway. (Remembering when Swtor released, and someone got level 50 same day on early access lol)
Probably same pace as EQ. :)
Cana
CanadinaXegony said:P1999EQLandmark said:Not talking about plat buying at all, more about the ability to speed through things because of develpoment on a main character. Although you mentioning PLing also makes me wonder how efficiently high levels will be able to PL. If it's like EQ, game on.
From what I can tell..you won't be able to get level 40 or 50 in a few hours, far as I know anyway. (Remembering when Swtor released, and someone got level 50 same day on early access lol)
Probably same pace as EQ. :)
Cana
I can't wait for hell levels, never thought I'd say that when I was still playing EQ but it's such a great thing that has been lost.
P1999EQLandmark said:On the topic of faction, how do you guys feel about quests such as the belt/shoulder pads from orcs, bones from skellys, bandages, etc. that would allow people who had plat to PL the first few lvls by buying these items and just turning them in?
I did enjoy the ability to lvl alts this way and the constant addition to the economy, /ooc WTS Belts 2.5 Plat each.
Not sure if this would go against the tenant of lvls being meaningful if this was added, but it WAS in EQ so I'm torn.
Those belts didn't get you that far ahead really. Probably about lvl 10 I'd guess? So they skipped a few levels but they pay a price and not just a plat price. They are now a lvl 10 character with all their skills at 0. Say hello to as many hours leveling the skills it would have taken to just level normally to 10. Casting that lvl 1 spell over and over raising one skill, switching to another and doing it again. Or getting your butt kicked by blue cons because your melee skills are garbage.
Then there is the social interaction part, the supply and demand issue. Some enterprising player, knowing of the quest but choosing not to use the belts for that while leveling normally, sells the belts. He is now richer than he was and the other guy is much poorer.
Overall, I never saw a problem with those xp quests.
Ok permenent faction hits are fine, But if i kill tunare my diety should change to innorok or something. I shouldent be stuck as a tunare follower with dead end undooable quests. Sure being non KOS in growth is special. But being any other diety in the game and Getting growth loot is more special lol. HELLO IM STUCK WITH TUNARE DIETY AFTER I KILLED TUNARE!!!! HELLO YOUR GAME IS BROKEN!!!! FIX THE STUPIDITY!!!!! Thats what my Petition is going to say lol
munge said:Ok permenent faction hits are fine, But if i kill tunare my diety should change to innorok or something. I shouldent be stuck as a tunare follower with dead end undooable quests. Sure being non KOS in growth is special. But being any other diety in the game and Getting growth loot is more special lol. HELLO IM STUCK WITH TUNARE DIETY AFTER I KILLED TUNARE!!!! HELLO YOUR GAME IS BROKEN!!!! FIX THE STUPIDITY!!!!! Thats what my Petition is going to say lol
So permanent faction hits are fine...yet you still want a way out of the consequences yet your option of switching dieties don't accomplish that. You still can't do those quests.
Now you're a Wood Elf Druid worshiping Innoruuk. No new doors are opened to you. Evil races will probably still hate you based on race. Good races will now probably hate you based on diety. You're options are now narrower than had you just stayed KOS to Tunare faction.
Vandraad said:munge said:Ok permenent faction hits are fine, But if i kill tunare my diety should change to innorok or something. I shouldent be stuck as a tunare follower with dead end undooable quests. Sure being non KOS in growth is special. But being any other diety in the game and Getting growth loot is more special lol. HELLO IM STUCK WITH TUNARE DIETY AFTER I KILLED TUNARE!!!! HELLO YOUR GAME IS BROKEN!!!! FIX THE STUPIDITY!!!!! Thats what my Petition is going to say lol
So permanent faction hits are fine...yet you still want a way out of the consequences yet your option of switching dieties don't accomplish that. You still can't do those quests.
Now you're a Wood Elf Druid worshiping Innoruuk. No new doors are opened to you. Evil races will probably still hate you based on race. Good races will now probably hate you based on diety. You're options are now narrower than had you just stayed KOS to Tunare faction.
I ....actually like this. This just makes your decisions count even more. A Wood Elf with an evil deity? How cool is that? As hated as an Iksar.
Tralyan said:Vandraad said:munge said:Ok permenent faction hits are fine, But if i kill tunare my diety should change to innorok or something. I shouldent be stuck as a tunare follower with dead end undooable quests. Sure being non KOS in growth is special. But being any other diety in the game and Getting growth loot is more special lol. HELLO IM STUCK WITH TUNARE DIETY AFTER I KILLED TUNARE!!!! HELLO YOUR GAME IS BROKEN!!!! FIX THE STUPIDITY!!!!! Thats what my Petition is going to say lol
So permanent faction hits are fine...yet you still want a way out of the consequences yet your option of switching dieties don't accomplish that. You still can't do those quests.
Now you're a Wood Elf Druid worshiping Innoruuk. No new doors are opened to you. Evil races will probably still hate you based on race. Good races will now probably hate you based on diety. You're options are now narrower than had you just stayed KOS to Tunare faction.
I ....actually like this. This just makes your decisions count even more. A Wood Elf with an evil deity? How cool is that? As hated as an Iksar.
Yeah I like that idea as well. Switching deity based on your actions sounds like a really cool idea. You could have some pretty cool combinations of race / deity that are not open to normal players and that would make the game much more interesting from both a role play perspective and just from a unique character perspective as well.
Vandraad said:munge said:Ok permenent faction hits are fine, But if i kill tunare my diety should change to innorok or something. I shouldent be stuck as a tunare follower with dead end undooable quests. Sure being non KOS in growth is special. But being any other diety in the game and Getting growth loot is more special lol. HELLO IM STUCK WITH TUNARE DIETY AFTER I KILLED TUNARE!!!! HELLO YOUR GAME IS BROKEN!!!! FIX THE STUPIDITY!!!!! Thats what my Petition is going to say lol
So permanent faction hits are fine...yet you still want a way out of the consequences yet your option of switching dieties don't accomplish that. You still can't do those quests.
Now you're a Wood Elf Druid worshiping Innoruuk. No new doors are opened to you. Evil races will probably still hate you based on race. Good races will now probably hate you based on diety. You're options are now narrower than had you just stayed KOS to Tunare faction.
I need to think about this one. I think its a great idea though!
OX
maybe certain factions can have more forgiving attributes than others giving the game life and the cultures personalities.
I however do not believe that if one day you kill the guards of a city, you should just be welcomed with open arms back into that culture after you kill 1k orcs randomly somewhere in wilderness. Maybe if you bribe your way or do something extraordinary(long grind or quests) you can be tolerated but never gain anything past neutral. This would make me people think more about the repercussions of doing certain things and allow actual play to be roleplay instead of just running around pretending.
I agree that actions pertaining to factions should have consequences, but I don't like the idea that you can't fix it - especially if you couldn't know where it would lead. I'm referring to the player ending up missing cool quests because of a mistake they didn't know they were making. That's too harsh in my book.