Xaleban said:Like a lot of others I am still not sure what to think about this. My first thoughts are I dont think I will like having to constantly check the weather of the portion of the zone I am in to figure out what spells to use while I am trying to CC/buff. I do think its interesting so I guess its a wait and see until I can actually play the game. I also am not into the whole spell chain system where you have to cast certain spells in sync with other group members to land some kind of effect. Still hoping for simple not overly complex gameplay in a new world where the focus is on survival without having to constantly click items and swap out gear etc.
I feel the same way about this, In small doses this could be cool, but if a person has to worry about Mana Colors and atmospheric conditions all the time it may be not fun.
I suppose if the game is much slower, with less combat, and is more of a tactical game where preparation is the key, then I could see it being fun.
I would like a really good explanation as to why, in this world, these mana climates exist so I can accept it better. That will allow me to go with it and not think of it as a forced irritation. I am in a wait and see mode and hope to find out more as they release info.
I am sure it will be tweaked into something that adds and does not take away fun. I really am looking forward to checking it out first hand.
If they keep it very simple as shown on the twitch stream where using a relic just adds a small % increase to a certain skill (healing, dmg, etc) then its fine. But if its to the point of where I am having to constantly watch the sky and look thru bags to figure out which item I should be using rather than paying attention to the group and keeping them alive then I am against it. I would be more for just having items in game that give these effects without the need for interacting with the climate. Maybe each class could have a relic quest chain where you can upgrade your relic as you progress thru the game. Say for a cleric... their first relic adds something like a % chance to land a crit heal or a certain % increase in healing. As you progress thru the game those percentages increase when you complete the necessary portions of the quest chain. Remember the CS weapon quest line in Vanguard and how you upgraded that weapon until it eventually became a legendary weapon? I would rather see something like this in game rather than having to worry with carrying all these relics for every type of climate. Its raining omg let me equip my rain relic or its snowing omg and i left my snow relic in the bank...crap! I wouldnt even mind not having them at all. Let peoples pure stats and gear determine how effective they are rather than getting these bonuses from relics. I know you guys are trying to add some cool stuff into the game and it is very much appreciated. I just dont know about this particular concept. I am all for keeping things as simple as possible and as similar to classic EQ as possible. But I also understand the thought process of wanting to add ''new and exciting'' things to evolve our genre. But if I had a dollar for everytime I have heard someone say they would just like to see classic EQ remade with better graphics then I would have a very hefty pledge to give. As I have already said... I will reserve a final opinion until I play the game but I will give my opinions based off what info we are given until that time comes.
By climate systems I'm Hoping for things like 5% attack speed slow in cold climates, 100% hit rate for lighting based skills in underwater or while you and target are in the water. Fire spells can have a higher chance to fizzle out in the cold and so on so forth. That would really make spell casting interesting and allow for the use of a lot of skills that might normally be ignored due to not being the most optimal use in games that are not dynamic in that regard. I know Divine Divinity the Original Sin utilizes this beautifuly . Then certain classes could negate certain effects from different climates via spells or racials could give immunity. Resistances could also play a role in helping degrade or augment those climate effects.
I really wish more of you would be a bit more positive about this. It sounds like a potentially deep and interesting system to me. Keeping things too same ole same ole is boring.
This isnt going to be a fast paced game that Im aware, and I seriously hope for no "rotations" and the like. More complex gameplay with deeper strategy and a need to be prepared and have a knowledge of the environments..................... Im not seeing a problem here.
But I do think there should be a mix and I do think there should be a level of flexability for different groups of players to be able to work together. I think there is enough room for both depth and freedom. The trick is situational gameplay and small incremental increases in gear stats. Im not talking anarchy, nor am I saying for instance that 2 players should carry the group. Its a careful balance that was done a lot in XI, and it worked fine.
I dont know about EQ or VG, but XI had both complex and difficult to master classes as well as easy casual classes. So too I think you will find that certain systems will just add that much more depth for those that want it, and those that dont can keep it light and simple. And as I mentioned elsewhere with interdependent gameplay it allows you to lean on eachother to cover each others weaknesses (thats lean on not take advantage of ^.^). So maybe that Druid buddy of yours will make you a red mana aura
Either way I welcome the system and think there is more to love than not.
Amsai said:I really wish more of you would be a bit more positive about this. It sounds like a potentially deep and interesting system to me. Keeping things too same ole same ole is boring.
This isnt going to be a fast paced game that Im aware, and I seriously hope for no "rotations" and the like. More complex gameplay with deeper strategy and a need to be prepared and have a knowledge of the environments..................... Im not seeing a problem here.
But I do think there should be a mix and I do think there should be a level of flexability for different groups of players to be able to work together. I think there is enough room for both depth and freedom. The trick is situational gameplay and small incremental increases in gear stats. Im not talking anarchy, nor am I saying for instance that 2 players should carry the group. Its a careful balance that was done a lot in XI, and it worked fine.
I dont know about EQ or VG, but XI had both complex and difficult to master classes as well as easy casual classes. So too I think you will find that certain systems will just add that much more depth for those that want it, and those that dont can keep it light and simple. And as I mentioned elsewhere with interdependent gameplay it allows you to lean on eachother to cover each others weaknesses (thats lean on not take advantage of ^.^). So maybe that Druid buddy of yours will make you a red mana aura
Either way I welcome the system and think there is more to love than not.
Well said, Amsai and I couldn't agree more. And yes both EQ and VG had classes that were more complex than others but all the classes were usually deeper than they first seemed. Especially as you got to higher levels and got more abilities, spells and skills.
I see nothing but upside to the mana climates, relics and atmosphere systems. There's so much potential there to really do some cool stuff. A lot of the concerns I've seen raised seem a little.... far fetched to me. I can't wait to see what they do with it.
Fwick said:By climate systems I'm Hoping for things like 5% attack speed slow in cold climates, 100% hit rate for lighting based skills in underwater or while you and target are in the water. Fire spells can have a higher chance to fizzle out in the cold and so on so forth. That would really make spell casting interesting and allow for the use of a lot of skills that might normally be ignored due to not being the most optimal use in games that are not dynamic in that regard. I know Divine Divinity the Original Sin utilizes this beautifuly . Then certain classes could negate certain effects from different climates via spells or racials could give immunity. Resistances could also play a role in helping degrade or augment those climate effects.
Nice!
A follow up article that touches on the extreme climate and atmosphere systems.
They also give an explanation as to why the mana climates exist.
They "formed as fragments of foreign realms have crashed into Terminus and the native energies of the two worlds entwine"
There seems to be a fear as well that changing climate means that a particular area is going to go thru multiple colors of mana in a short period, like a night's gameplay. Doesnt it seem more likely instead that maybe a generally cold area might get bitterly cold for a night making fire based magic even less effective, and then maybe the next day get a bit less severe? I dont really imagine a dramatic shift with, say, white (holy?) mana to black(death?) mana, to red(fire?) mana potentially ever, let alone in a single play session. I can totally see you needing to tihnk about your relic when you move from one area to another, but not constantly thru a given group's xp camp.
Edit: Wish I'd read that MMORPG article before my post. But I think the premise is still sound. Change is one thing and depending on the scenario quite possible. Changing dramatically and rapidly multiple times in a given period? Not so likely.
Feyshtey said:There seems to be a fear as well that changing climate means that a particular area is going to go thru multiple colors of mana in a short period, like a night's gameplay. Doesnt it seem more likely instead that maybe a generally cold area might get bitterly cold for a night making fire based magic even less effective, and then maybe the next day get a bit less severe? I dont really imagine a dramatic shift with, say, white (holy?) mana to black(death?) mana, to red(fire?) mana potentially ever, let alone in a single play session. I can totally see you needing to tihnk about your relic when you move from one area to another, but not constantly thru a given group's xp camp.
Edit: Wish I'd read that MMORPG article before my post. But I think the premise is still sound. Change is one thing and depending on the scenario quite possible. Changing dramatically and rapidly multiple times in a given period? Not so likely.
I agree. While I suppose it's possible that the mana climates could shift (and perhaps they will in rare situations) I don't think that'll be the norm. If you had mana climates that constantly changed their color it would add too much randomness and luck to the world. To become better players we are encouraged to learn about the game world, our class and the environment. If you've learned the mana climate you'll be fighting in, you and your group are going to perform better.
Malsirian said:Feyshtey said:There seems to be a fear as well that changing climate means that a particular area is going to go thru multiple colors of mana in a short period, like a night's gameplay. Doesnt it seem more likely instead that maybe a generally cold area might get bitterly cold for a night making fire based magic even less effective, and then maybe the next day get a bit less severe? I dont really imagine a dramatic shift with, say, white (holy?) mana to black(death?) mana, to red(fire?) mana potentially ever, let alone in a single play session. I can totally see you needing to tihnk about your relic when you move from one area to another, but not constantly thru a given group's xp camp.
Edit: Wish I'd read that MMORPG article before my post. But I think the premise is still sound. Change is one thing and depending on the scenario quite possible. Changing dramatically and rapidly multiple times in a given period? Not so likely.
I agree. While I suppose it's possible that the mana climates could shift (and perhaps they will in rare situations) I don't think that'll be the norm. If you had mana climates that constantly changed their color it would add too much randomness and luck to the world. To become better players we are encouraged to learn about the game world, our class and the environment. If you've learned the mana climate you'll be fighting in, you and your group are going to perform better.
Now that is something I can get behind. I would add some serious dynamics to some areas. People just can't run through content like they can in other games. I think it will make people think twice and pay attention as they adventure through the world.
Pretty cool subject!
Ox
I have read more on Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit , actually it could be pretty damned cool if it all works well. Very Interesting.