The unity engine is in wide use out there and I was wondering how the Devs are going to use it? I have a ton of examples of game combat types but was not sure where the team was going post the last video? I know it is early and there was a ton of place holder mechanics in there and was curious to what the vision for the mechanics will be? The game environment is rich already and was basically wondering if the combat mechanics will be that good also?
I am not a game designer but I do see the potential this game has at this early state and it looks fantastic. I am hopeful the combat and movement and will match the for an overall encompassing package.
I know details are slim but your vision would help me understand where the game is going graphically and mechanically.
Just looking for discussion on direction and possibilities.
Ox
I feel the FAQ and the stream gave away quite a good overview of how combat is going to work. I think the main placeholders would be animations and graphics, also abilities will change but I feel we can guess how they are going to function.
Can casting a spell fail or ‘fizzle’?
Spells have a chance to fizzle or do less damage because of a resist and this applies to both players and NPCs. We feel this will add an additional level of tactics, knowledge, and challenge.
How will targeting work?
There will be both offensive and defensive targets. Beneficial spells and abilities will be directed toward your defensive target, while harmful spells and abilities will be directed at your offensive target. Some spells and abilities, primarily area-of-effect spells, will involve targeting the ground or area around your foes.
Is there an auto-attack and if so, how will it work?
There will be a traditional auto-attack system. Passive abilities will trigger automatically during combat (dodge, parry, etc.). This gives the player the time to focus on selecting abilities and spells (magic missile, fireball, counterspells, deflections, etc.) based on what’s going on tactically in combat.
Does Pantheon use tab-targeting and auto-attack or a more ‘action’ focused combat system?
We realize that some MMOs have used a more ‘action’ oriented combat system, where you click on different buttons to attack, swing your sword, dodge, etc. With Pantheon, combat will still be action-packed and require close attention to combat, using tactics, as well as reacting to what mobs and other players may be doing. In fact, so much will be going on that you will not want to have to worry about whether you are swinging your sword or not -- you will be casting spells, assuming stances, countering or deflecting your opponent’s moves and spells, and more. Additionally you will click on or use the tab key to change targets, but there will also be a subset of spells where you can target the ground (for example, some area-of-effect spells).
Can you go into more detail regarding the action aspect of combat?
The player will have enough time to react to what the NPC is doing (counterspell, deflect, move out of the way, etc.). Combat is more involved and the player will need to pay attention, but it is not ‘twitch’ in the way a first person shooter is.
Tell me more about Spells. Can you move while casting a spell?
Most spells can be cast when you are moving, however they will more often than not slow down your movement speed. Some spells will require you to stand and not move; likewise, some spells may not slow your movement speed. Additionally, while most spells are spoken, some are gestured, the latter being very handy when an area is silenced by a player or NPC.
The possibilities are pretty much endless with Unity. What you can't do by default you can likely find tools to achieve. When that doesn't suffice, you build your own tools, which I know VR has talked about doing (Brad is the "tools" programmer among other things). Its a very versatile platform, hence the name Unity. Its also being used more widely every day, which means better support all around.
Like Coldlight said, the major mechanics are listed. You can basically imagine the important stuff from EQ/Vanguard and assume a lot of it will make its way into Pantheon.
If there is a particular mechanic you were wondering about, you might get more info if you specify what it is.
Oxillion said:The unity engine is in wide use out there and I was wondering how the Devs are going to use it? I have a ton of examples of game combat types but was not sure where the team was going post the last video? I know it is early and there was a ton of place holder mechanics in there and was curious to what the vision for the mechanics will be? The game environment is rich already and was basically wondering if the combat mechanics will be that good also?
I am not a game designer but I do see the potential this game has at this early state and it looks fantastic. I am hopeful the combat and movement and will match the for an overall encompassing package.
I know details are slim but your vision would help me understand where the game is going graphically and mechanically.
Just looking for discussion on direction and possibilities.
Ox
Let me take a stab.
There are no place holders for mechanics.. but art assets such as animations, or graphics, or lighting are all placeholders right now until the game develops more. But graphics are not game mechanics, in which will be based on EQ/VG principals. Many mechanics are constantly tweaked to balance aspects of the game, during development. Which is the intent of several phases of alpha, etc.
Heck, back in 1998 EQ's alpha ~ beta phase, your character was essentially a stick figure/scarecrow with no animations, but yet all the game mechanics where there... just not the art, or animation to represent them. But your char could still jump, run, levitate etc.. later the graphic artist add running, walking, jumping animations to match the static characters, etc. (Until then you were an unanimated scarcrow that glided about the game world.)
Perhaps you are confusing animations, or particle effects, and art assets (trees, building, water...etc) as some form of a game mechanic. They are not, those are just art assets to make the game more visual. Game mechanics are underlaying and provide the newtonian physics within the story world. Most of what you SEE is a placeholder (Trees, texture of walls and buildings, animal animations & looks, colors, lighting, etc). But Not so with the laws of how One's character move about, or interacts with the game. Those will not be replaced. Most in-game mechanics are being defined now and are the rules in which Pantheon will be built. Some game mechics will require stages of alpha testing, before they are truely defined. But once baked into the game are there, either used, or not... but never replaced. Cambat mechanics are no different.
Your game either has levitate, or it does not... levitation is not an animation, it is an actual newtonia physical force in-game, that allows your character free form use of said amount of anti-gravity. Your Character couild be represented in-game as nothing more than a 6' tall round cylindar... and still levitate. Animations and graphics are what make them real & immersive to us in-game.
Dungeons & Dragons use to be played out in your mind alongside others... while the "mechanics of the game" was the rulebook, (where rules & randomness of the dice..) dynamically waivered to tell an on-going story in which YOU played a role in.. by acting as a Character in real-time.
Graphically, it is unknown where this game is going, as everything you see are just placeholders for higher rez and more detailed skins & shaders, etc. (tangible assets take time). In the next two years expect some really nice work being done on graphics. But because Pantheon is using Unity, the graphic will be modern and able to use the latest tech when released in 2018. (Hair & capes waving in the wind, or when running. Footprints in sand, or simply looking threw a keyhole, etc).
Graphically, you can use the most modern tech, and probably even a specific API at some point with Unity... even Virtual reality. I am sure that the character animation will really impress people and draw them in...
Most encouraging thing to me, is that I really like the art direction in Pantheon thus far. Visionary Realms is still definning the world and the lore and will settle on their own style soon. Then they can rapidly build off of that. Then a story world can be built.
If you want a basic idea of what the mechanics will be like, play some EverQuest. I get the impression that, while there will be several minor tweaks to that (e.g. ability to move while casting spells, defensive targeting, etc.), there won't be much in the way of radically different mechanics such as those seen in EverQuest 2 or Age of Conan for example.
I hope the Unity engine runs fast enough even with hundreds of players at once. Many many many engines fail in such stress situations. I remember some games based on the Hero engine. Swtor dropped to 5 - 10 fps when there were more than 15 players in combat on the screen. It killed the PvP in this game.
Greetings
Larirawiel said:I hope the Unity engine runs fast enough even with hundreds of players at once. Many many many engines fail in such stress situations. I remember some games based on the Hero engine. Swtor dropped to 5 - 10 fps when there were more than 15 players in combat on the screen. It killed the PvP in this game.
Greetings
You are talking about netcode. And that is more or less left up to Brad & co how they are doing that. Not sure of the over-all limitation within Unity itself, graphically I see no reason why the engine would fail to render hundreds of players at once... but instead, do YOU have the video card capable of handling all that information at once..?
Go to the plane of knowlege in EQ right now... hundreds of players stuffed into one corner... on a 15 year old engine. And it can handle hundreds... lol.
It is all about netcode, not so much Unity. And... more about how tough your video card is..? Ultimately, ability & performance is more up to the enduser, than it would be the developer. Unless if you are talking like 1k players all stuffed into a Cathedral. Even then, LOS control would prob still allow for it.
Netcode isn't responsible for rendering issues or graphical lag. Its more about keeping players and the world synchronized and able to interact with each other.
Considering EverQuest was built on the engine for a tank combat sim, I don't think we have anything to worry about.
I guess what I have noticed in playing GW2 and then watching the Pantheon Videos is this. Pantheons world looks differnt. World visions are always differnt from one game to another but the observation is the dynamics of Pantheon verses say GW2. GW2 has some pretty craxy game mechanics for the combat and animations. Pantheon has this environemntal depth that I have not seen in games. BDO does have a very nice looking game but there is something different about Pantheon.
I brought up the game engine due that is the peice that deploys the art and is teh backbone of the game. There are limitations to all of them. With that said, with heavy visuals does that take away from the say character mechanics and animations for combat and general game functions as we see them?
Good discussion Guys! I have tons of questions I guess.
Ox
Oxillion said:I guess what I have noticed in playing GW2 and then watching the Pantheon Videos is this. Pantheons world looks differnt. World visions are always differnt from one game to another but the observation is the dynamics of Pantheon verses say GW2. GW2 has some pretty craxy game mechanics for the combat and animations. Pantheon has this environemntal depth that I have not seen in games. BDO does have a very nice looking game but there is something different about Pantheon.
I brought up the game engine due that is the peice that deploys the art and is teh backbone of the game. There are limitations to all of them. With that said, with heavy visuals does that take away from the say character mechanics and animations for combat and general game functions as we see them?
Good discussion Guys! I have tons of questions I guess.
Ox
It doesn't have to, and "heavy visuals" is very subjective.
GW2 is easily one of the best optimized games I have ever played. I hated the game, but the optimization was on point. The game world was fairly large, beautiful, and got me 60 FPS on some older hardware on high settings (i5 2500k, GTX 760). I would personally considered that impressive.
I haven't been in-game in Pantheon and it's really hard to judge the graphical fidelity on a stream. It is admittedly not extremely important to me that the graphics are completely amazing, but I do enjoy the aesthetic they have taken as far as the screenshots show.
Basically, if I can get 60 FPS on my mid range hardware I'd be happy about that. I'm sure I'll be able to get 60 FPS by disabling some things like AO and shadows, but we'll honestly just have to see. Everything has a performance compromise, the question is whether or not the currently available hardware can support it without having to play in gumby mode.