I love the idea of different languages for the varying races/species/factions, and I definitely feel they should need to be learned by the player in order to understand it. This could be achieved by collecting scrolls/book fragments and studying them, completing various quests for the given language etc.
Absolutely and they shoud be useful or have meaning to learning them. Like a treasure note of warning sign or a puzzle to solve. If you don't know the language then you cant read it. Now I think you should be able to buy scrolls or what I call universal/simple magic spells that allow you to read or understand some one. Short duration/single use type spells. It adds another way for player mages to make some coin by making and selling language scrolls. Learning some acient dead languages should require quest to learn them others just spending time in an area should allow you to pick up a the basics of a language.
I'm all for making as many things "Tradeskillable" (TM) as possible. Having to go into Pantheon's version of the EC tunnel and
/auction WTB translator
In order to decipher scrolls. Maybe this would be applicable for a research type skill needed for casters to learn new spells, or for particular quest objectives.
The more tradeskills you have, the more variations you have in playstyle, the more dynamic the game would be. It think it would be both fun, AND frustrating, to be forced to search for a translator in order to delve into a particular dungeon regardless of their class. It would make things a heckuvalot more interesting and challenging.
That said, either way, yes please!
-Tralyan
Yes I like different langauges.
I like the idea of it being a tradeskill like item, ot being able to learn snippets or general understanding through quested items or by looking at a note another race/faction has, as well as a way to learn from other players.
I liked the idea of certain mixed races ( like half-elf, for instance) having both innante elvish and human language capacity, that would be a sought after race to interact with to learn both, and then to bridge from there. The farther you go, the more opportunities you have to learn other laguages, in addition to the looting or finding of scrolls to learn from.
Or even, making merchant, guild trainer easiest to learn in a new city- like a special dialect- opposed to the local dezinens that spoeak the pure form, that would need to be learned/tutored/skilled.
I'm happy with the RP excuse of a 'common' language that enables characters to talk enough to trade and fight together (ie. no need to garble what we type in main chat), but I think 'foreign' languages can be a great fun and immersive game mechanic otherwise.
Some related ideas: -
No 'common' for all NPCs. Sure a lot of them will know the common trade language (especially the, er, traders), but if you want to talk to the ogre chieftain, you're going to need to learn Ogrish (not to mention earn some faction to get close enough he/she doesn't kill you - maybe learning the language is a good way to gain faction? Maybe you can't even start gaining faction until you've learned to talk to the ogre you give the elf ears to hehe).
Crafting languages. Making language primers/lexicon/dictionaries/whatever could be something crafted from language 'artifacts' (looted pages/items/books). Kill 100 ogres - take the gathered newspaper scripts to a crafter - crafter produces a primer you can use to learn Ogrish. Maybe the same crafters that make spell scrolls... Could be PC or NPC. Needs to be a 'magical' process of 'consuming' the artifacts and then the buyer 'consumer' the primer to explain why you can't just copy the primer... has to be magic for you to learn 'immediately' - let's face it noone wants to spend a realistic amount of time in-game sitting in a classroom ;)
Language as a weapon. Sure, warriors can taunt Orcs without knowing Orcish, but if you *did* know Orcish (even just the swear words!) how about a bonus to taunting? How about a bonus to enchanting/mezzing? Or even to cleric turning/dispelling if you know what language that undead spoke in life?
Language for commerse. It is often the way with faction, but how about a trading discount if you know the vendor's native language?
This mixes with the idea of Beastiary-related knowledge giving bonuses... needs another thread though...
Kilsin said:Nice, I think languages can add a lot to the games immersion if done properly, especially if evolved from EQ's system to make it more meaningful and less spammy :)
Yeah learning from spamming chat at each other was always a tad weird hehe. I suppose you wouldn't want to have to go kill Elves to learn Elvish though! Wouldn't want to just be able to buy it either though... Hmm...
Maybe you should be able to buy a primer (for foreign or dangerous factions that could be exciting in itself - how do you get close to the Ogre librarian in the middle of kill-on-sight Ogretown?) but then the 'time' you spend grouping with an Ogre slowly ticks up your language? No spamming necessary, but active grouping needed? Hmm.
I always enjoy differing languages in games. It adds another layer of immersion and opens up many possibilities on how to overcome the barrier. It would also be great for RP servers. That being said I think they should be implemented carefully and with purpose so it does not become an unnecessary roadblock to content.
As mentioned previously, a linguistics tradeskill available to everyone would be a great way to skill up and track progress. Language could be a gateway to race/faction quest lines. A player would start with their own langauge at a certain skill level. Perhaps not maxed out as there is always room for improvement, but at least at a level that would have their own quest lines immediately available to them. There could be translators/ambassadors who could lead into learning languages for differing player races. Discovery of collections like letters, diaries, and tomes in specific racial zones could help advance the understanding of the language. As your skill advances race/faction quest lines would open up a result of being able to communicate better and in general being regarded in higher standing with that race. Elves might not trust every human, but if you have taken the time to learn their language they may be more receptive to sharing their secrets and troubles.
This would work for non-player races as well. A dropped note from an orc would open up that language with the ability to skill up from collecting items from loot. Perhaps a war weary orc banished from his clan would have rare skills/items to sell to a player who can communicate with him in orcish.
Even classes could have secret languages. The language of thieves and mages could lead to some interesting quest lines. On interacting with an npc he may speak in the spirit language of the shaman. If the player does not repsond correctly he will switch to common and provide some information or quest. But if the player is proficient in the language the npc reveals additional information or a bonus/alternative quest line.
The main point to remember is that the world should focus on common as its main language. A player should be able to advance without learning new languages even though he/she may potentially skill up a language through regular play without even trying. However, for those who actively pursue linguistics a whole world of options may open up that were not available before.
I've linked EQ's FV ruleset (RP) before, but I really enjoyed how the languages worked on FV. It really did make race selection matter more. Pasted below:
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No shared Common Tongue language. Races could only speak their own racial language(s). Language skill improvements (achieved by listening to someone else's chat) had a rate cap, and only improved via /group and /say chat channels.
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With that said, I would be ok with other ways as Kilsin had noted outside of just spamming the language to learn it though, but I liked the idea of how you had to learn another race's language before being able to understand them.
Raidan said:I've linked EQ's FV ruleset (RP) before, but I really enjoyed how the languages worked on FV. It really did make race selection matter more. Pasted below:
With that said, I would be ok with other ways as Kilsin had noted outside of just spamming the language to learn it though, but I liked the idea of how you had to learn another race's language before being able to understand them.
I agree that it was cool system for the Firiona Vie ruleset. If the same restriction to not have a common language at the beginning were placed in Pantheon, it should probably stick to a role playing ruleset server. On a standard ruleset it might be seen more as an annoyance than cool, depending on the implementation of learning new languages.
Loved it in WoW although IMO they left it unfinished. You couldnt "learn" the other races language so it kinda just stopped there. I remember there was a guild, (probably many similar ones in many servers) named after Monty Python as "Knights Who Say Ni." They figured out how to say "Ni" through the games translater (or should I say language scrambler) and yelled it while attacking alliance towns.
Wouldve been nice to be able to learn the language by some means. Obviously not some 1 dimensional rep grind or whatever but maybe something along the lines of grouping with different races and having them speak their language throughout netting you some kind of points to learn it. As you "learn" it some words would come through unfiltered until everything finally shows up.
OR! Leave it up to the players. Have the client encode the text and let players try and translate it themselves. For example we all know "kek = lol" though it was impossible for decode in WoW... i tried. Would be interesting for PvP battles to have the possibility of another player being able to listen in.
I like having different languages to learn. Back in the early days of EQ I used to do language trading pretty regularly for a while. I eventually got to where I had mastered every available language. Even though it was really just spamming each other with group chat, I didn’t mind. It was fun to take a break from the fighting and crafting and just do something else for fun.
My main complaint is that there was really not much of a need for any of the languages I learned. If I remember right, I think there were a few books that were written in other languages that you couldn’t read unless you knew that language, but mainly it was just for show.
It would be nice if there were more books written in other languages, or npc’s that didn’t speak common and you couldn’t communicate with them unless you spoke their language.
I like the idea that was brought up about languages being a tradeskill. If I spend a lot of time developing my skills in certain languages, I might be able to solicit business from other players if they have quests that need a book or something to be deciphered. I could see myself doing that.
I liked the language concept in Everquest, however, it was the actual learning mechanic that I did not care much for. It seemed like a cheap mechanic, whereby, a player would just spam the language to another player. I know Pantheon can definately improve upon that mechanic.
disposalist said:I'm happy with the RP excuse of a 'common' language that enables characters to talk enough to trade and fight together (ie. no need to garble what we type in main chat), but I think 'foreign' languages can be a great fun and immersive game mechanic otherwise.
Some related ideas: -
No 'common' for all NPCs. Sure a lot of them will know the common trade language (especially the, er, traders), but if you want to talk to the ogre chieftain, you're going to need to learn Ogrish (not to mention earn some faction to get close enough he/she doesn't kill you - maybe learning the language is a good way to gain faction? Maybe you can't even start gaining faction until you've learned to talk to the ogre you give the elf ears to hehe).
Or it depends on your faction. If you don't speak ogre but your faction is good(excellent, whatever), then the Chieftan will deign to speak to you in your language.
Yes I love the idea of having different races or different cultures of the same race speaking different languages, and having to learn those languages. Just please make learning the different languages take time, and require effort. None of this junk where a player who knows all the languages can just teach them to you at the press of a button and whatnot.
Since I'm sure there are players who wouldn't want to deal with this, maybe make some of the server types have a common tongue, and others (perhaps the RP/RP-PvP servers) have no common tongue. Different languages are awesome, but having a common tongue makes them completely unnecessary.
