Amsai said:Reht said:Would be really cool if they tied conning a mob into the perception system: the higher your perception, the better chance you have of more accurately guessing a NPCs level and power compared to yours.
Now this makes sense, and I could get on board with it more fully.
Agreed. But I still wouldn't want a system that only relays this information by giving a false con (undercon). If the system says something like "you aren't sure exactly how tough this creature is" if your skill was too low, i'd be all for it. I don't want to see "You should win this fight" or "you might win" and then find out it was way out of my league because my skill was too low.
I liked soloing mobs a lot, but going as a duo was far better. Groups didn't like to wander too far, in my experience, unless they knew you. Deciding where to go and what to do depended largely on how dangerous it was. ToFS was fun and challenging, but undercons were simply a pain in the ass. Then it hit me that they weren't really undercons; They were conned properly for more than one player.
With light blues being introduced, they almost universally became the soloable content to go for while waiting on a group. Blues were possible with one person, but only if you were playing your class against the right class. As a duo, if I wasn't bringing in steady single blues, we would either get bored or wipe. When I had a full group, I'd bring in one or two whites, one or two yellows and sometimes a red, depending on group make-up. Blues were pulled in pairs or trios - especially with cc. Pulling light blues meant we needed to move on or through as quickly as possible.
Variation within cons is okay to a degree, but I'd rather have it be determined by class mechanics and /considered differently per each player, based on whether you are in a group and possibly even by the level and condition of your gear. I absolutely agree with it being a perception skill thing and would also like local mob knowledge to be helped by faction as a benefit to working on local factions.
Nasotha said:I liked soloing mobs a lot, but going as a duo was far better. Groups didn't like to wander too far, in my experience, unless they knew you. Deciding where to go and what to do depended largely on how dangerous it was. ToFS was fun and challenging, but undercons were simply a pain in the ass. Then it hit me that they weren't really undercons; They were conned properly for more than one player.
With light blues being introduced, they almost universally became the soloable content to go for while waiting on a group. Blues were possible with one person, but only if you were playing your class against the right class. As a duo, if I wasn't bringing in steady single blues, we would either get bored or wipe. When I had a full group, I'd bring in one or two whites, one or two yellows and sometimes a red, depending on group make-up. Blues were pulled in pairs or trios - especially with cc. Pulling light blues meant we needed to move on or through as quickly as possible.
Variation within cons is okay to a degree, but I'd rather have it be determined by class mechanics and /considered differently per each player, based on whether you are in a group and possibly even by the level and condition of your gear. I absolutely agree with it being a perception skill thing and would also like local mob knowledge to be helped by faction as a benefit to working on local factions.
Well said. If the con system can be tailored to spit out a replay based on group size then even better.
The undercon mobs that gave me a kick-in-the-arse in EQ includes:
- Dvinn in Crushbone – Damn, that sucker used to own me and every other newbie back in the day… Nothing like being punched in the back non-stop as you try running to the zone line… Use to cringe when I saw a shout "Dvinn to the zone" because you just knew a huge train was coming.... Loved it…
- Retlon Brenclog in Crushbone – One badass-Gnome… I remember many groups dying to him…
- The Tangrin in Field of Bones – This was one badass undercon if you were not prepared…
- A Drachnid Widow in Kunark – Man-Alive these things use to kill me all the time, between their roots and thorns they were a PITA…
- The Great Saprophyte in Echo Caverns – This bugger is a major undercon; I remember helping a friend kill this guy I was at level 48 I think and my druid buddy was a level 40 and this little light blue or green level 35 bastard killed us easily… Oh, he paid for those deaths many times over as I hit max level and stopped by to say hello to him…
- Torklar Battlemaster in Unrest – Holy Moley Batman, this mob was my worst nightmare back in the day.. I remember him being light blue to me an my PUG’s and he ate us alive easily… It was a surprise to see this low level mob own us.. Laughed about it for days…
Dreake said:Nothing was more exciting than kiting a blue-con dragon behind TOV entrance to its death...then picking another blue-con dragon and realizing almost immediately that you made a terrible, terrible, terrible choice
I love this stuff. I find it amazing what sticks with us years after playing a game like EQ...
Rint
Reht said:Would be really cool if they tied conning a mob into the perception system: the higher your perception, the better chance you have of more accurately guessing a NPCs level and power compared to yours.
what he said. could be a new skill like sense heading. everyone has it, hates leveling it, but very handy to have so you can see the arrow, showing exactly what direction you're facing (mainly used when entering/exiting athica when the halls all look the same and get stuck accidently zoning in and out. so annoying lmao
It'd be annoying but a necessity to lvl up the skill of your 'consider' ability, making power leveling even more frowned upon. (however in a group this may only affect the person pulling, not the wizy/ench) so maybe it's not a good idea or needs to be worked with so all players can level it fairly equally.
Great idea Reht!
I am against giving the player more information than they deserve because it kills curiosity. Someone needs to run up to the mob and whack it and see what happens.
In EQ, someone had to pay the ultimate sacrafice to learn that a certain mob is an undercon or summoned or what have you. Then let the word spread by mouth. Dont give away such things, it kills curiosity.
I am especially against any tier system where it displays a mobs strength or if it is a "group" or "raid" mob. Let us explore and find out ourselves. Then we can tell stories about it.
Same applies to itemization. No tiers please. I dont need to see a green item and automatically know it is junk, let us decide. Tiers affect the market as well. Just because something is lower tier according to whatever system, it will command a lower price. Let the players and market decide the value of items.
I think that this could be a great use of the Detect [insert ability here] ability. An Enchanter could detect Psionics on or being used on a mob. A cleric could detect Blessings/curses. Melee classes could get an accurate accounting for the mobs melee abilities etc. And so on. I think it would also be kinda awesome to be able to determine a mobs abilities (part of the whole conning process) if we could see the gear/drops they had and apply info metaphysically to the conning ability itself. Think of it like this: an undead frogloc conns blue. But then since you are a cleric you can tell he is cursed, will cause some cursing, etc. This would give you just a little better conning of the target and maybe realize that since you have some Turn Undead abilities - it might ACTUALLY con green. Or say your a warrior and your checking out the blue conning undead froglok. You can assume that he is cursesed etc. as before but there is no way to tell yourself. What you CAN see is that he is carrying the Short Sword of Ykesha. Now that mob cons yellow to you.
Reinventing the wheel can be complicated and time consuming.
Some of that stuff sounds good. I dont know about the color of a mob being calculated for you vs the group.
I think it takes away from the experience if you can always depend on the conning system to tell you how "hard" the mob will be or if those are "group" mobs vs "solo" mobs. Some greens should be hard, some blues easy. Mix it up and surprise us, but let us discover it.