Lots of topics on level caps and max level and time to x level.
I don't think there should be a cap on anything in the game just a curve. A few examples.
Exp - Have your normal 1-50 (or whatever) then have say level 50.1 50.2 etc and with each level give say 1 point to distribute instead of say 15 or whatever. Then maybe 51.1 51.2 give 1 point to distribute per 2 levels. Make the curve what is needs to be to make these bonuses small but the benefit is it still gives something to work for and it prevents endless dying at level cap because exp loss would still be in effect.
Trade skills- Have very small bonus increases for levels past standard max such as maybe .05% additional chance for a better craft etc.
Gear- One of my favorite features on a lot of games and it keeps the wheels of the economy spinning. Let gear have +1 +2 +3 added etc. Make it so if you fail the item breaks and make the chances of getting up there lower and lower.
Faction - 1-1000 with 1000 being perfect well make it keep going up maybe 1001 1002 etc maybe the person who happned to kill 300,000 orcs will some day see some changes or new items become available.
All these things are ideas that allow people to keep playing even when a lot of content is exhuasted.
Liav said:No. These are basically Korean MMO mechanics and they do not go over well with western audiences.
I think BDO is following this dynamic. I agree so far most of the western MMO markets that have tied this have not had good results. GW2 had fast leveling and the personal story. They have the living storyline now and that is interesting but you have the people that race to be first to complete it. Not sure how to correct that mindset but it seems to permeate the MMO genre now. I think this is what the casual gamer mindset has created and it fits with the dynamic of GW2, AA, BDO, Rift and others.
Limits need to be in the game to give the journey meaning. Without it I think it creates a hollow experience. You lose interest and ultimately stop playing.
Ox
I think the point is, feeling limited. For that I would worry more about content creation and replayability, which I am pretty sure is one of the top concerns for the team.
I don't think we have to worry about excell spreadsheet number crunching. We should hope for an insurmountable amount of content. By the looks of the twitch video, the zones were the size of Canada in land mass, so if the game comes out with say... 8, that is a lot of ground to cover.
Although to be fair, if you play any game for more then 8 hours per day, you're never going to be satisfied, in any game ever. Therefor, I would structure expectations to most human beings on earth.
I'm totally against this for 4 reasons:
1. This is the cornerstone of the next 3 items: There is no resting point. You never get your character to a point where you move beyond grindy exp progression and into gear progression. You never really get that sense of achievement of "capping" your character.
2. It is punishing to alts. If you are in any way a raider, You can basically never play a second character because that is constantly time taken away from improving your main character, which is hurting your performane in raids
3. How do you balance it? Do you balance encounters just on level 50, and then the hardcore players can triviliaze it by grinding 24/7? Or do you balance it to an arbitrary level of bonus level points, at which point you've basically just created a new level cap, and at which point the hardcore players can still just grind to trivialize it. At any rate, you're creating a scenario where the hardcore high end raiders have to exp grind constantly to stay productive.
4. This completely discourages any activity that isn't exp grinding. In any mmo, when people hit a level cap, they start to relax and do other things in the world. They make alts(sub point 4a: this heavily discourages alts, as playing the alt is time away from powering up your main's stats.), they go exploring, they solo old raid content. they hang out at the bank and socialize, or tradeskill, or create fun games for newbies to play in newbie zones, or powerlevel friends, or any other of the TONS of activities that people do in mmos at the level cap. Having a cap on exp gives characters much needed "time off" during a set of content, where they are able to do focus on gear as a source of character growth, and use the rest of their time for leisure activities.
I actually hate it when I reach cap on my character. The game is over for me. I would hope if there is a cap it is extrememly slow to get to.
I am an alt-aholic but only because of caps. I enjoy trying new classes/races, and love to be self-sufficient, but that is beause of caps.
I am goal oriented, without goals, the game is boring. With caps, goals get met. The question is, how fast? Shouldn't part of character development be fun and not a race to Max level, Max cap etc?
I Hope they make this like Vanguard. The leveling was tremendously slow, yet tremendously fun.
Prominus said:Lots of topics on level caps and max level and time to x level.
I don't think there should be a cap on anything in the game just a curve. A few examples.Exp - Have your normal 1-50 (or whatever) then have say level 50.1 50.2 etc and with each level give say 1 point to distribute instead of say 15 or whatever. Then maybe 51.1 51.2 give 1 point to distribute per 2 levels. Make the curve what is needs to be to make these bonuses small but the benefit is it still gives something to work for and it prevents endless dying at level cap because exp loss would still be in effect.
Trade skills- Have very small bonus increases for levels past standard max such as maybe .05% additional chance for a better craft etc.
Gear- One of my favorite features on a lot of games and it keeps the wheels of the economy spinning. Let gear have +1 +2 +3 added etc. Make it so if you fail the item breaks and make the chances of getting up there lower and lower.
Faction - 1-1000 with 1000 being perfect well make it keep going up maybe 1001 1002 etc maybe the person who happned to kill 300,000 orcs will some day see some changes or new items become available.
All these things are ideas that allow people to keep playing even when a lot of content is exhuasted.
No level cap is insanity IMHO.
They WILL have a level cap of that I am sure. It will not be a fast process to reach of that I am sure. Max lvl you begin end game content and ALL that you need to start working on that. Resist gear, healing gear, tamnking gear, dps gear, attunements and so on....... If implemented working on AA's. LOTS to do at max lvl to max out before the next x pac.
Xanier
p.s. no lvl limit I would walk from the game. No raid content I would walk from the game.
Aich said:This is what the progeny system is for.
This is exactly what I thought when I read this as well. If you want to advance a character even further then you already have use the progeny system, start a new character that with be ever so slightly more powerful, and it helps keep the lower levels alive and thriving. Two birds with one store sort of thing.
Rachael
I like the idea of a Level cap, however I do think that an AA line of abilities was a great idea.
You must keep the AA abilities solely to the class tree line and not take way from other classes, this gives an ever ending advancement to a character without the need for a new expansion with the next 10 levels always being called for. Just make the AA experience points a decent amount of time to acquire for each one, Half the time of say a level 49-50 for instance?
For a game to keep players it must have a good source of end game and this does not mean Top guild raids etc but a way to continue your char’s progression. To feel like you are always growing and becoming more than just a number to fill a group..
In my opinion where games go wrong is caring too much for the new player and taking away from those who have been with you for years.. You take out a Sky Tv package, you pay say £40 a month for years. Now the sky company wants more new members so they offer the new members a half price sale for 6 months at £20. I phone up and say but wait, I have been with you for years and I am still paying £40 why is this new person paying £20. Sorry can't help you is the reply...
My point is after a while a game gets dumbed down for a chance for the newer members to get right up were the old members are. So why did I struggle for say 2 years if a new player can get there in 2 months. If the old members are still playing then give them their due, if the old players have left then nothing lost to the newer members and no reason to make it easier.
A good example of this is the new upcoming game Chronicles of Elyria. I believe you get souls in this game, you live you get old and you die, then you come back with a new soul. This new soul retains memories of the past soul so when you try to relearn skills you learn them at a faster rate. Then you get old and die and repeat each time learning skills at a faster rate. This all sounds quiet good at the start, however after reading a Dev's notes it turns out that after a while they feel that long time players will have such an advantage on new players that it will not be fair in their opinion. So to remedy this they are going to give new players a soul that has already progressed some to safe them starting from the beginning. So what was the point in the original players living, getting old and dying untold times? They should have just waited a year and got a soul already half way up the tree so to speak.
Just my 2 Pence worth
I have a dream that Necro’s will rule the world again
Camarginy said:it turns out that after a while they feel that long time players will have such an advantage on new players that it will not be fair in their opinion. So to remedy this they are going to give new players a soul that has already progressed some to safe them starting from the beginning. So what was the point in the original players living, getting old and dying untold times? They should have just waited a year and got a soul already half way up the tree so to speak.
This perfectly describes why overzealous catch-up mechanics can destroy a game. It makes the players who don't need to catch up feel like they did a lot of work for no good reason. These sorts of mechanics are what ultimately caused me to cancel my FFXIV sub a few months ago... Why spend time upgrading through 3 or 4 sets of gear when a year from now I can just log in and just as easily get the new set without going through the other 3 at all? And when the expansion came out, anyone at the previous level cap was just handed gear that was pretty great compared to the original level 50 starter gear.. made all the prep work I did for my alt classes prior to expansion feel pretty pointless.
I'm all for lessening the curve after a couple years to help new players catch up a bit, but if someone consistently spends loads of time improving their character, than someone who comes in a year or 2 later should rightfully be lagging a good ways behind.
Prominus said:Exp - Have your normal 1-50 (or whatever) then have say level 50.1 50.2 etc and with each level give say 1 point to distribute instead of say 15 or whatever. Then maybe 51.1 51.2 give 1 point to distribute per 2 levels. Make the curve what is needs to be to make these bonuses small but the benefit is it still gives something to work for and it prevents endless dying at level cap because exp loss would still be in effect.
this can be easier with a hard LVL cap of 50 and adding in AA's after you hit max.
Rachael said:Aich said:This is what the progeny system is for.
This is exactly what I thought when I read this as well. If you want to advance a character even further then you already have use the progeny system, start a new character that with be ever so slightly more powerful, and it helps keep the lower levels alive and thriving. Two birds with one store sort of thing.
Rachael
I was also thinking this (great minds... :) ) - in theory, as much as we know about the progeny system this could happen. There could also be caps on how much we can acquire with the progeny system. The latter is probably in line with a more balanced game. We will have to see how crazy Brad is getting with this system!
