In classic EQ, skills got better as you used them. You could also spend 5 skill points when you leveled as well. I feel this is something that's missing from newer MMO's. Even in Vanguard when you leveled, all of your skills would automatically go to their max values for your current level. What is the fun in that? I love being able to practice spells and ablities to level them up. It gives you alternative goals that help your character when fighting.
A perfect example of this is weapons types. Let's say you've been using a 1H blunt weapon since level 1. You're now lvl 20 and you want to switch to 1H slash? Your 1H slash should start at 0 and you should be required to level up that skill to get better using that weapon.
I really feel like this is an important feature that adds a lot of depth to the game and gives players even more things to do besides character levels. I feel like a game that prides itself on slower leveling and a meaningful journey should have alternate means of advancement that detract from the slower leveling experience and really fill out the game.
EDIT: I also would like to see spendable attribute points after lvl 10 like in Vanguard. Being able to customize your character even further is always a great thing.
I too agree, it is lacking now a days. But skills also have to mean something too, so if i put 1 skill in it wouldnt be totally night and day change but a 2% increase per point. Which isnt a ton but having 5 skill points in should be a 10% boost.
If we decided to cap at 255 skills, till lvl 50 or whatever, you could essentially have not maxium skills in str, int, sta, wis, con, dex and if we look at the other skill sets it still may only be a 2% boost, per point.
Just an idea not saying it is correct to the way this game is. I do know the more we post it must drive the devs nuts, knowing how much we expect our mmo's to be.
Oxillion said:Krixus said:Why even have skill levels exposed to the player if they just automatically level like WoW and VG? This isn't Diablo 3.
Not sure I understand your Post Krixus? I don't thik the posts were establishing a non-skill progression dynamic. Just curious.
Ox
Yeah, I'm not sure I understand either. What he's saying is exactly what I don't want: automatic skill leveling based on player levels. They should be their own advancement.
If you don't use a skill, the skill will not advance. This is about choices and consequences. Sure, you can choose to only ever use 1 weapon type but the consequence is if you were suddenly faced with having to use a different weapon type you will suffer the consequences of having horrible skills.
xetura said:Oxillion said:Krixus said:Why even have skill levels exposed to the player if they just automatically level like WoW and VG? This isn't Diablo 3.
Not sure I understand your Post Krixus? I don't thik the posts were establishing a non-skill progression dynamic. Just curious.
Ox
Yeah, I'm not sure I understand either. What he's saying is exactly what I don't want: automatic skill leveling based on player levels. They should be their own advancement.
I'm agreeing and giving examples of games that don't do that and the effect that it has. Why do those games even have skills/stats when they auto level and you can't even control them?
It's something I've missed, and I'd like to see skills return in Pantheon, but only if it's meaningful. Let me expand a bit. Assuming the cap is 50, and you get 5 skill points per level. Part of end-game character development becomes maxing those skills. It might be beneficial to switch weapons while leveling, for example, if the chance to skill up decreases as level gap increases. Beating on a level 1 MOB, for example, would take a very long time to max out a weapon skill if you're level 20. Also, it could add another layer to character development if skill points cary a lot of weight. Adding 10 points to 1 handed wepon skills, for example, could increase your minimum damage, increase chance to crit, decrease chance to miss, or a combination of all making +weapon skill a valuable stat.
I think weapon skills still have merit, even if if it's just a chore one has to do where you cap it and forget about it, as it shows dedication and attention to detail, but I would really like to see the system fleshed out if it's going to be in the game.
The problem is it only was special at the very low levels. Going from 0 – 50 skill points was very noticeable and you felt like it was getting better with each point. The drawback was once you past a certain point gaining skill points became almost unnoticeable. Going 200+ would add a little damage but not enough to notice without a dps program running.
Agreed, skills and learning to use them was part of the game in EQ. I think it certainly should be in game.
On a side note, during the video I saw three skills that stood out and sparked my interest.
Chemical Resistance, Hearing, and Seeing? I'm curious to find out what these are and how they will be implemented as skills.
I also noticed no Fear resist at this time in the list.
Training skills every level is a source of enjoyment for me (visible progress! :)
However, it can also be a source of frustration, when levels go past too fast, or rather skill ups come too slowly. Of course this is a question of many factors: Should it be possible to train (for example) every weapon skill to max every level? Should repeatedly casting low levels skills be required (casters in EQ for not mainly used skills)? How much of a factor should stats play in this? Or gear (fast weapon vs. slow weapon, does/should it make a difference)? Class role (for example, a cleric in EQ usually had to sit and meditate in groups, and could not practice their weapon skills much)?
My only issue with skills is that a lot of people tend to get into groups for the sole purpose of leveling skills. Makes it a lot more difficult when carrying people leveling things from 0 when you're level 50. I think skills should factor into your damage rather than hit/miss rate. I mean I could be terrible with a hammer but if there's an elephant in front of me the odds of me missing to hit it would be pretty slim. Especially when fighting from behind a mob. Tanks, and any other dps who don't know how to stand behind a mob, could have a penalty for low skill for attacking from the front but if the mob can't see you then it can't dodge you.