Do we have any details how Camping will work in Pantheon? I have played UO, SWG and FFXI a lot all Pre WOW so I know how Old school MMOS work, I also did play a little EQ1 and Ashrons Call But them where only for a few days.
So when we talk about Camping are we talking FFXI camping where you go to 1 spot and players pull a mob to you spot endlessly? Or are we talking about UO/SWG type camping where I could run the Shadow Wrym room myself or sit in a village of sandpeople and kill them endlessly?
xtnpd said:I hope we find out a little more about this on Friday!
I was going to post the same thing. Really looking forward to Friday. Should learn a lot about the game then.
Amsai said: My understanding is like FFXI/EQ but probably with EQ etiquette? Ive had discussions before and it seems FFXIs way was considered rude by EQ standards. You know things like camp checks and coming back later etc. My experience on Garuda server was a bit more cut throat. If another group showed up and their groups puller was better well that was just too bad. But the basic mechanics should be the same.
Yeah that would be considered camp stealing / kill stealing in EQ. In EQ you ask for a camp check and if somewhere is camped you go somewhere else or you wait until the camp is free. If a group decides to camp the same spot for 12+ hours then that is just bad luck for you.
I hope camping is more in-line with the EQ way of doing things as it works out quite well for everyone.
Cromulent said:Amsai said: My understanding is like FFXI/EQ but probably with EQ etiquette? Ive had discussions before and it seems FFXIs way was considered rude by EQ standards. You know things like camp checks and coming back later etc. My experience on Garuda server was a bit more cut throat. If another group showed up and their groups puller was better well that was just too bad. But the basic mechanics should be the same.Yeah that would be considered camp stealing / kill stealing in EQ. In EQ you ask for a camp check and if somewhere is camped you go somewhere else or you wait until the camp is free. If a group decides to camp the same spot for 12+ hours then that is just bad luck for you.
I hope camping is more in-line with the EQ way of doing things as it works out quite well for everyone.
Here is the problem I see with this. I did Camping in FFXI, it was great for 6 months or so. Problem is after a while that gets boring. It also causes a lot of problem when people want to kill a certain mob for a piece of gear and if a larger guild controls that location then you are SOL. I remember that in FFXI when I was trying to get an item for my PLD, there were over 100 people there and I had 0 chance at it. While its great for the group in that guild it would force me to be in their guild and follow their estabilishment. This is what Instances came into play with WOW. No one had to fight camps. As much as it was done against me I also did it for hours in the Shadow Wyrm Room in UO. The problem was for the longest time Myself and my group of friends owned the room and who get anyone who tried to steal our spawn killed. So I been on both sides of the fence and both sides the grass is brown and not worth playing on unless the world is so large that you might have 100 spots to go to fight a certain Mob.
The question is weather or not will best in slot gear will be dropped from certain mobs. If thats the case like it was in FFXI then people will own certain mobs 100% of the time and turn the game into a Cut throat game that no one likes. This is I feel one reason why so many people didnt stay in MMOs pre-WOW because there was a lot more cut throat actions that caused people to not stick around. I know because I have had friends that didnt stick around because in their off hours they couldnt get a group in FFXI.
I am not trying to upset anyone however I think we need to solve some problems that will come up with a camping style game. Or make other content that can replace caming like instanced dungeons if one does not want to sit and camp a spot in the world. O and I talk about Vanilla WOW style Dungeons not todays Diablo hack n slash stuff.
HelzBelz said:Cromulent said:Amsai said: My understanding is like FFXI/EQ but probably with EQ etiquette? Ive had discussions before and it seems FFXIs way was considered rude by EQ standards. You know things like camp checks and coming back later etc. My experience on Garuda server was a bit more cut throat. If another group showed up and their groups puller was better well that was just too bad. But the basic mechanics should be the same.Yeah that would be considered camp stealing / kill stealing in EQ. In EQ you ask for a camp check and if somewhere is camped you go somewhere else or you wait until the camp is free. If a group decides to camp the same spot for 12+ hours then that is just bad luck for you.
I hope camping is more in-line with the EQ way of doing things as it works out quite well for everyone.
Here is the problem I see with this. I did Camping in FFXI, it was great for 6 months or so. Problem is after a while that gets boring. It also causes a lot of problem when people want to kill a certain mob for a piece of gear and if a larger guild controls that location then you are SOL. I remember that in FFXI when I was trying to get an item for my PLD, there were over 100 people there and I had 0 chance at it. While its great for the group in that guild it would force me to be in their guild and follow their estabilishment. This is what Instances came into play with WOW. No one had to fight camps. As much as it was done against me I also did it for hours in the Shadow Wyrm Room in UO. The problem was for the longest time Myself and my group of friends owned the room and who get anyone who tried to steal our spawn killed. So I been on both sides of the fence and both sides the grass is brown and not worth playing on unless the world is so large that you might have 100 spots to go to fight a certain Mob.
The question is weather or not will best in slot gear will be dropped from certain mobs. If thats the case like it was in FFXI then people will own certain mobs 100% of the time and turn the game into a Cut throat game that no one likes. This is I feel one reason why so many people didnt stay in MMOs pre-WOW because there was a lot more cut throat actions that caused people to not stick around. I know because I have had friends that didnt stick around because in their off hours they couldnt get a group in FFXI.
I am not trying to upset anyone however I think we need to solve some problems that will come up with a camping style game. Or make other content that can replace caming like instanced dungeons if one does not want to sit and camp a spot in the world. O and I talk about Vanilla WOW style Dungeons not todays Diablo hack n slash stuff.
Interesting comments. I don't think there will be any instancing in Pantheon. Most people (including myself) are against the idea. Things always worked out in the end in EQ. Either guilds would work out rotations so that everyone had a shot at a given mobs or there was racing to see who would get that particular spawn. Yes it meant that some guilds got a mob more often than others but it just pushed people to be prepared when the spawn was up.
I camped certain mobs for hours if not days because I was looking for a certain drop and so did other people. I really rather liked that as it gave you something to aim for. I guess it depends on how crowded the servers are as to how bad the camping of specific mobs will be.
I think the idea is to provide enough content so that there aren't that many bottlenecks in progression. There will always be some rare mobs that are highly contested and that is a good thing for the game. It builds a sense of community and achievement when you finally get a really rare drop for your character.
I never played FFXI or UO but I can say it all worked out OK in EQ.
Cromulent said:HelzBelz said:Cromulent said:Amsai said: My understanding is like FFXI/EQ but probably with EQ etiquette? Ive had discussions before and it seems FFXIs way was considered rude by EQ standards. You know things like camp checks and coming back later etc. My experience on Garuda server was a bit more cut throat. If another group showed up and their groups puller was better well that was just too bad. But the basic mechanics should be the same.Yeah that would be considered camp stealing / kill stealing in EQ. In EQ you ask for a camp check and if somewhere is camped you go somewhere else or you wait until the camp is free. If a group decides to camp the same spot for 12+ hours then that is just bad luck for you.
I hope camping is more in-line with the EQ way of doing things as it works out quite well for everyone.
Here is the problem I see with this. I did Camping in FFXI, it was great for 6 months or so. Problem is after a while that gets boring. It also causes a lot of problem when people want to kill a certain mob for a piece of gear and if a larger guild controls that location then you are SOL. I remember that in FFXI when I was trying to get an item for my PLD, there were over 100 people there and I had 0 chance at it. While its great for the group in that guild it would force me to be in their guild and follow their estabilishment. This is what Instances came into play with WOW. No one had to fight camps. As much as it was done against me I also did it for hours in the Shadow Wyrm Room in UO. The problem was for the longest time Myself and my group of friends owned the room and who get anyone who tried to steal our spawn killed. So I been on both sides of the fence and both sides the grass is brown and not worth playing on unless the world is so large that you might have 100 spots to go to fight a certain Mob.
The question is weather or not will best in slot gear will be dropped from certain mobs. If thats the case like it was in FFXI then people will own certain mobs 100% of the time and turn the game into a Cut throat game that no one likes. This is I feel one reason why so many people didnt stay in MMOs pre-WOW because there was a lot more cut throat actions that caused people to not stick around. I know because I have had friends that didnt stick around because in their off hours they couldnt get a group in FFXI.
I am not trying to upset anyone however I think we need to solve some problems that will come up with a camping style game. Or make other content that can replace caming like instanced dungeons if one does not want to sit and camp a spot in the world. O and I talk about Vanilla WOW style Dungeons not todays Diablo hack n slash stuff.
Interesting comments. I don't think there will be any instancing in Pantheon. Most people (including myself) are against the idea. Things always worked out in the end in EQ. Either guilds would work out rotations so that everyone had a shot at a given mobs or there was racing to see who would get that particular spawn. Yes it meant that some guilds got a mob more often than others but it just pushed people to be prepared when the spawn was up.
I camped certain mobs for hours if not days because I was looking for a certain drop and so did other people. I really rather liked that as it gave you something to aim for. I guess it depends on how crowded the servers are as to how bad the camping of specific mobs will be.
I think the idea is to provide enough content so that there aren't that many bottlenecks in progression. There will always be some rare mobs that are highly contested and that is a good thing for the game. It builds a sense of community and achievement when you finally get a really rare drop for your character.
I never played FFXI or UO but I can say it all worked out OK in EQ.
I agree to an extent about it working in EQ. It really depending on the server a few servers that really fought for progression and to be the first tend to have a lot of stuff on lockdown between 2 or 3 guilds. while the servers that didnt really care about progression it seemed easier to camp without seeing a couple of guilds to control the server..
Thats why I have always loved faction based PVP. Another faction camping?? Kill them and start camping haha.
This starts into a whole other topic honestly. Thats not to say it isnt important. But this conversation has been hashed out here and over at MMORPG.com fairly fully. Basically from what I understood through comments from Kilsin and Brad, is that they are aware of any and all percieved or actual problems in dealing with open world vs instanced content (everything from worries about zerging and removing challenge from one side to losing social oppertunities and immersion from the other). I am not against Instances, but it has been made very clear by the devs that it aint gonna happen. And at one point Brad asked for suggestions on ways to reduce potential problems with open world content with mechanics other than instances that didnt harm or severely limited harm to the social aspect, and even offered a couple of examples himself (think this was over at MMORPG.com) So I would say proceed forward with possible soloutions to potential problems but still designed around open world content.
I myself dont have a problem with contested content. But I do think there is a difference between contested content and impossible content (I mean because of a bottleneck). And I do worry about Zerging and Zombieing to bypass challenge. So there needs to be plenty of content per X amount of people (whatever that is). And community shouldnt come at the expense of challenge. I think concepts like lockouts and reduction in drop rates should be considered to keep guilds from perma camping, etc. Also I hope that there are plenty of types of high end combatitive content, not just contested. They can still be in an open world environment, but things like epic quests, quest triggered Named, item triggered Named. Then also other things like high end crafting, and AAs.
Amsai said: My understanding is like FFXI/EQ but probably with EQ etiquette? Ive had discussions before and it seems FFXIs way was considered rude by EQ standards. You know things like camp checks and coming back later etc. My experience on Garuda server was a bit more cut throat. If another group showed up and their groups puller was better well that was just too bad. But the basic mechanics should be the same.
This is when you do group invis, then train the ther group. Problem solved.
Amsai said:This starts into a whole other topic honestly. Thats not to say it isnt important. But this conversation has been hashed out here and over at MMORPG.com fairly fully. Basically from what I understood through comments from Kilsin and Brad, is that they are aware of any and all percieved or actual problems in dealing with open world vs instanced content (everything from worries about zerging and removing challenge from one side to losing social oppertunities and immersion from the other). I am not against Instances, but it has been made very clear by the devs that it aint gonna happen. And at one point Brad asked for suggestions on ways to reduce potential problems with open world content with mechanics other than instances that didnt harm or severely limited harm to the social aspect, and even offered a couple of examples himself (think this was over at MMORPG.com) So I would say proceed forward with possible soloutions to potential problems but still designed around open world content.
I myself dont have a problem with contested content. But I do think there is a difference between contested content and impossible content (I mean because of a bottleneck). And I do worry about Zerging and Zombieing to bypass challenge. So there needs to be plenty of content per X amount of people (whatever that is). And community shouldnt come at the expense of challenge. I think concepts like lockouts and reduction in drop rates should be considered to keep guilds from perma camping, etc. Also I hope that there are plenty of types of high end combatitive content, not just contested. They can still be in an open world environment, but things like epic quests, quest triggered Named, item triggered Named. Then also other things like high end crafting, and AAs.
The Devs can make it very clear that instancing is not going to happen. The problem is todays MMO community as a whole is a lot worse than it was during generation 1 of MMOS. At least with larger linkshells on FFXI they would help out smaller Linkshells they were friends with. The problem is the community as a whole has moved away from that inclusive lets help others out (Yes there was a handful of problem child guilds on every game) to every man for themselves and screw everyone else. If the community as a whole becomes like this and refuses to work with others and what not you will see very few people playing. Yes this will be a lower cost Project but you still have to make a profit and you cannot do that if people quit playing.
Lets look at it this way. In ArcheAge I use to take my trade packs to Freedich to get the best outcome for my trade pack. After some time players learn it was easier to get into one of the top 3 Guilds and sit there on Freedich all pirates camping for people with trade packs. Yes for a little bit we had large groups that took the packs together BUT after a few weeks of that and several 4+ hour battles people quit doing that because they didnt have 4+ hours a night to trade in packs and lose 2/3s or more of them. My wife and I quit playing because of that and a large part of my guild quit because of it. Yea we could do low risk low reward deal but it to us was a waste because we wanted risk vs reward but you cannot have a major imbalance like that. Guess what when more and more people leave because of imbalances like this because they do not have time to put into a 4+ hour trade pack run or in the case of Pantheon waiting for a spawn. People will not stick around.
The Problem is we do not know how Pantheon will solve the camping issue where 1 or 2 of the best bosses in game are run by 2 or 3 guilds per server. Thats just something that I feel would be best if we add in some instancing because an instance properly balanced can be just as hard as a boss in the open world. The core problem with instances is often they require a set number of players, this can be changed to a flex group. You can also make it so that this content is not something that Pantheon developers must spend a lot of time on. Build a dungeon designer and let people who like to DM stuff design dungeons out like Neverwinter does. Then you can take some world bosses and put them in the instances. Then have a 1 week lock out, if you kill that boss you cannot get his loot for 1 week.
I think Pantheon has a good base to build upon for an MMO. I do think that the developers need to not be so blind to what was successful with WOW because we all hate what WOW did to MMOs. Thing is WOW did not kill the MMO Genera until after they moved away from the game being a challenge and requiring you to take responsibility for your success or failure. As soon as WOTLK hit with AOE fest instances and then they added LFD it killed MMOs because now we turned into a fast-food joint. That is not the fault of instances that was the fault of the CEO thinking he could make more money by becoming more casual. Which we all now hate WOW.
Do I think Pantheon needs to be WOW, hell no. Do I think they can take a feature or two that worked well. Hell yes. Vanillia WOW and TBC WOW did Dungeons like no other game. Also I liked the server events like the lead up to WOTLK with the world events, and the opening of AQ.
I feel that people will not like sitting and Camping the same area or doing the same reparative task like endlessly killing the same mobs. I know in SWG there was a Imp base on coreilla where I spent nearly 500 hours killing an AT-ST to level up my commando. I was camping a spawn just to level, the same spawn. I would have loved some kind of instancing in SWG where I would to have taken over one of the bases on the Rori or Coreilla kind of like I did with PVP bases but in a PVE setting. It didn’t need to be a WOW like instance but a bubble around that base and let my friends and I have an objective that required team work to destroy the base would have been fun.
Sorry for my rant. I hope I kept things civil enough.
Aich said:Amsai said: My understanding is like FFXI/EQ but probably with EQ etiquette? Ive had discussions before and it seems FFXIs way was considered rude by EQ standards. You know things like camp checks and coming back later etc. My experience on Garuda server was a bit more cut throat. If another group showed up and their groups puller was better well that was just too bad. But the basic mechanics should be the same.
This is when you do group invis, then train the ther group. Problem solved.
Think is todays MMO players will not deal with these type of mechanics. During the FFXIV beta we had a line for a quest that was broken and only 1 person could do the instance at a time. We always had a few ass holes that would come in and screw it up for everyone else then there would be more that came. I hate to say it but the level of Etiquette you want to come back will never come back because the Entitled way people are today. Now everyone is entitled to their own option BUT they are not entitled to make the game the way they want. I might sound like I am but I am suggesting that narrow game play like camping will not have the desired effect and the more it sounds like from people they just want EQ1 in a new skin. What I say to that is this, I miss UO and SWG BUT having been in MMOs since 1998 and played so many MMOs I would never go back to exactly how these games were.
In both UO and SWG I would have instances to some level. For example take Shame, I would turn that into an instance where I would have to progress through with a group and kill a boss at every moongate to get to the next level. Why would I do that? To add more to the game then running around any of the levels in shame just killing the mobs for gold (most of the gear they dropped I would sell, very rarely did I ever get a piece I wanted). I already threw out the PVE base idea from SWG because that would be fun too.
Yes people miss some of the old games, but if I missed them that much I wouldn’t I play the SWG emulator world, or go to a T2A UO server. Because the action of farming 1 mob over and over again is not mentally challenging; like running through an instance where I need to use team work to pull mobs, and fight bosses. Yes Instances can get boring, again we can have player developed content here it should not be placed all on developers. Get Neverwinter like tools and had them to the DMs to make dungeons.
I think the more content we have the better. Hell I would be all for a cave that is phased where I have to go through to assault a troll fortress as a dungeon crawl would be great.
Any problems with guilds camping the same spwans over and over can be solved with clever scripting.
Off the top of my head:
Obviously this would need a lot more fleshing out, but my point is that there are several different ways we can control spwan camping now that didn't exist in 1999. I don't think we'll have much to wory about.
Gurt said:Any problems with guilds camping the same spwans over and over can be solved with clever scripting.
Off the top of my head:
- When a group/guild kills a boss mob everyone who participated gets a "Boss Slayer" buff
- "Boss Slayer" buff lasts as long as 2 (or 3 or 4 or what have you) respwans of the boss
- "Boss Slayer" cannot be removed by any means other than it's timer expiring
- While under the effects of "Boss Slayer" players will enjoy special benefits such as reduced item costs and special NPC dialogue
- If a group/guild made up of more than 25% (or 33% or 50%) people with "Boss Slayer" attempts to fight the boss then the boss will adapt new tactics and/or attempt to flee the combat
Obviously this would need a lot more fleshing out, but my point is that there are several different ways we can control spwan camping now that didn't exist in 1999. I don't think we'll have much to wory about.
First what you suggested was possible in 1999. Scripting has not changed that much since then, its just become more acceptable to do what you suggest than it was in 1999.
As for coming up with Debuffs which could work however you will need to make some very restrictive rules. For example, even if a boss does not drop loot because of debuff there will be players out there that will intentionally control the spawn and keep others from getting the loot drop from the spawn. Hell look at ArcheAge where people blocked people from turning in trade packs by sitting on a NPC, or keeping a player from crossing a bridge. There was no gain in the game, they just did it to be ass holes about it. So unless you want to do 1 of 2 things that are really harsh you are going to have systems that will be exploited. The 2 things you can do is if X player killed said boss they cannot kill said boss again for 1 weeks. This though will stop players from healing each other out. The 2nd option will be if players control spawns like this far too much and do not listen to warnings then you need to ban them.
Yes people are people and you will have some ass holes to deal with. The problem is while people use to have a higher level of respect for others Pre-LFD/LFR tools today people are too self-absorbed and use to getting what they want when they want it that they will find ways around what you do or quit the game.
Now When I played FFXI a game I loved but the camping was a major problem. I was working to get a shield off the Orcish Barricader. I remember for 3 months I tried every day to get that shield, not once did I get a shot at killing the Barricader because there was always 50+ people there and the respawn happened every 2 hours if I remember. The largest guild ran that spawn and controlled how many shields were on the market because they had the people to do that.
If I was to go through that again I will just quit the game. That type of BS is why instances were built. HOWEVER I have a solution to the problem that is not instanced. What if that Barricader spawned in 10 or more places throughout the world and the spawns were fast enough that 1 guild could not run the spawns? Also that drop rates would be high enough there was no benefit for Guilds to do this? Also what about making gear that is crafted that could be as good or not better than a boss drop? This way someone is not spending so much time trying to get 1 piece of gear because there is little to no replacement and that boss spawn is located in 1 part of the world?
If that was put into place then I wouldn’t end up frustrated because some guild with 1000 members keeps my guild of lets say 15 members away from doing things we want to do?
Amsai said: Hey man I wont stop you from suggesting Instances. Im just telling you that its not in the cards. And a better use of your energy would be to think of suggestions for open world content to make it better. You seem to be underestimating the community for this game. There are a lot of folks that truly want open content. Trust me I have been with this ptoject since the original KS. And have been active in voicing my problems with open world content. And I have gotten responses from Brad. But none of them were him saying that Instancing was even a remote possibility. Instead he specificslly asked for suggestions to make open world content challenging, fair and the least harmful to the community.
While I would like to see a few instances. I really feel the only way to pull it off and not have guilds lock down the mobs is to do open world contested lockouts. Say like you can kill the mob every 10 days and it respawns every 15-24 hours so it gives lots of people a cvhance.
Now this should only be done for hard mobs giving amazing loot. For normal named mobs they should get away from the whole Named mob BOB drops the chestplate of uberness. Bob is the only mob in the entire world to drop this chestplate. Instead BOB frank charlie stan and bill all drop the chestplate but its a low chance etc etc
HelzBelz said:
First what you suggested was possible in 1999. Scripting has not changed that much since then, its just become more acceptable to do what you suggest than it was in 1999.
As for coming up with Debuffs which could work however you will need to make some very restrictive rules. For example, even if a boss does not drop loot because of debuff there will be players out there that will intentionally control the spawn and keep others from getting the loot drop from the spawn. Hell look at ArcheAge where people blocked people from turning in trade packs by sitting on a NPC, or keeping a player from crossing a bridge. There was no gain in the game, they just did it to be ass holes about it. So unless you want to do 1 of 2 things that are really harsh you are going to have systems that will be exploited. The 2 things you can do is if X player killed said boss they cannot kill said boss again for 1 weeks. This though will stop players from healing each other out. The 2nd option will be if players control spawns like this far too much and do not listen to warnings then you need to ban them.
Yes people are people and you will have some ass holes to deal with. The problem is while people use to have a higher level of respect for others Pre-LFD/LFR tools today people are too self-absorbed and use to getting what they want when they want it that they will find ways around what you do or quit the game.
Now When I played FFXI a game I loved but the camping was a major problem. I was working to get a shield off the Orcish Barricader. I remember for 3 months I tried every day to get that shield, not once did I get a shot at killing the Barricader because there was always 50+ people there and the respawn happened every 2 hours if I remember. The largest guild ran that spawn and controlled how many shields were on the market because they had the people to do that.
If I was to go through that again I will just quit the game. That type of BS is why instances were built. HOWEVER I have a solution to the problem that is not instanced. What if that Barricader spawned in 10 or more places throughout the world and the spawns were fast enough that 1 guild could not run the spawns? Also that drop rates would be high enough there was no benefit for Guilds to do this? Also what about making gear that is crafted that could be as good or not better than a boss drop? This way someone is not spending so much time trying to get 1 piece of gear because there is little to no replacement and that boss spawn is located in 1 part of the world?
If that was put into place then I wouldn’t end up frustrated because some guild with 1000 members keeps my guild of lets say 15 members away from doing things we want to do?
In my expirence, very few people do things in video games without a reward of some kind. Those trade pack campers? I'd bet dollars to donuts they saw swelling their "players killed" counter (whether an in game one or 3rd party, or just in their head) as a tangible reward. The FFXI guild you mentioned saw the control of that shield as a tangible reward (if they could make in game money off of it that's even better). Take away the rewards for camping a spwan and the spawn campers would dry up. What if it was impossible for a group containing a player with the "Boss Slayer" buff/debuff to tag the boss? Suddenly an entire guild can't spwan camp because all it takes is one group from a rival guild (or hell even a solo player) to do some damage and tag the boss for themselves, gaining full credit for the kill and all associated loot.
Remove the reward for spwan camping and the spawn campers will be removed.
the open-world encounter includes quest mobs, perhaps a solution is for the targets involved not to become "tagged" by anyone. When that quest mob dies all quest loot is available to anyone until the corpse disappears. That would prevent quest-blocking. Also, if quest mobs are open-world encounters, perhaps they drop no loot other than quest loot.
As for open world epic encounter mobs ... why can't everyone that participates in the encounter be rewarded in some way? I think we can evolve from the "I shot it first" model of "tagging" these mobs. Reward with coin, faction hits, better yet - perhaps a reward quest that results from participating in the killing of the epic beast - something other than dropped loot, but it would be a significant reward in and of itself to have the option to run the quest. And you could only run the quest one time ... thus making the encounter meaningful and available for those that need the encounter, as well as not rewarding the action of farming the encounter.
I would hate the I tagged it first method. Because as a tank if someone tagged a hard mob first just for loot. I would so sit there and let the mob destroy them. It also serves to destory grouping. just because I killed the mob 2 days ago doesnt mean I shouldnt be able to help someone else and have them get loot.
If it is raid content with the best armor at stake is one thing. But groupable mobs spawned all over the world should never have a mechinic in it to discourge people from grouping with others. Remember not everyone deserves the loot just because they play the game. Sometimes you will just not be able to get it and you need to move on and find some other piece of gear