I don't know about you guys but I've noticed a steady decline in game secrets over the years.. -Remember finding those hidden places in the older games? (like EQ) What ever happened to those? Don't see much of them nowadays. I hope Pantheon has them (I think they will do, but not 100%).
- Hidden walls/doors
- Hidden keys
- Doors to lock pick
- Hidden levers.
- The classic "statue missing an eye/gem".
- Special mechanics/events to open a door, etc..
love'em. Can you think of any others?
What do you guys think? Do you like in-game secrets? :)
They're neat, but they don't work well in MMORPGs. The development time required to implement them is very expensive time/effort wise, and once it gets discovered it generally gets posted online and all of that effort is now wasted because it is no longer a hidden feature.
I do like quests that require unconventional means to complete though, like puzzles and such, but with the qualifier than something is randomized about it that prevents it from being completely trivialized by online wikis.
By that logic though, everything gets trivialised by wiki's and how-to's (from quests to boss fights), but it's still worth it to make things creative/difficult.
To this day I never found that pesky guano harvester... but the fact I knew he existed had me constantly looking/listening/hoping to get lucky while kobold grinding.
Curve balls are always a good thing imo, otherwise you risk things being very linear or possibly stale. I can't imagine it being that difficult to make a floor that is really a pit fall. Besides, I would HOPE, seriously HOPE that the dev's have a creative side and yearning to try and achieve some equivalents to those memorable dungeons. The Najena with the fake floors, Permafrost with the pit, plane of fear entrance with spectre's guarding it.
I think you could make them not so trivial. For instance, hidden key, if you can blend them really well and give them almost completely random spawns within a dungeon or random within a set of rooms in a dungeon then the locations would be meaningless on a wiki. It would also open up an opportunity to implement some cool spells or search skills that could help you find the exact location of these type of items.
I also hope that the dev's will have a sense of humor, akin to blizzard dev's and the so many references to books, games, and movies that you could find in the game. I loved stumbling across those gems in the game.
How about for example put a well in one of the dungeons as a throwback to Befallen. But instead of a way out in the bottom, make it so you can etch your name into the bottom while stuck there >.> Maybe put what could be considered a lotion bottle in the bucket at the bottom. And so you don't have a place that simply has no escape, make an npc that every 10-20 min will wander over and pull the bucket out then drops it back in.
Lokkan said: How about for example put a well in one of the dungeons as a throwback to Befallen. But instead of a way out in the bottom, make it so you can etch your name into the bottom while stuck there >.> Maybe put what could be considered a lotion bottle in the bucket at the bottom. And so you don't have a place that simply has no escape, make an npc that every 10-20 min will wander over and pull the bucket out then drops it back in.
Nimryl said:I don't know about you guys but I've noticed a steady decline in game secrets over the years.. -Remember finding those hidden places in the older games? (like EQ) What ever happened to those? Don't see much of them nowadays. I hope Pantheon has them (I think they will do, but not 100%).
- Hidden walls/doors
- Hidden keys
- Doors to lock pick
- Hidden levers.
- The classic "statue missing an eye/gem".
- Special mechanics/events to open a door, etc..
love'em. Can you think of any others?
What do you guys think? Do you like in-game secrets? :)
I totally agree and would love to see them in game. Even knowing they are there makes it fun. Like the hidden walls in the sewers of Qeynos or Freeport. And finding it for the first time yourself is even more exciting and totally worth the effort in my opinion. I know for a fact that I never found all the hidden walls in the cities.
Liav said:The development time required to implement them is very expensive time/effort wise
How much does making a secret door, switch, or puzzle cost exactly?
Liav said:and once it gets discovered it generally gets posted online and all of that effort is now wasted because it is no longer a hidden feature.
The only people I believe this affects are the lazy that look these things up instead of trying to figure them out on their own. The people that try to do it on their own most likely do it for the challenge and don't want cheapen the experience, or maybe they aren't expecting easy mode and being handed the answers or locations to the treasure.
The biggest problem with these types of "gimmicks" is that while they are awesome the first time through they become tiresome the 2nd and 3rd time through. They also are not hidden unless you're self-imposed as every "secret" will be on websites before beta is even over
Dreconic said: "gimmicks"
I did not mean to say gimmicks in a bad way. Just that it is something that is not required, and that you can do if you want to. I am like you I love exploring and getting off the beaten path. Only time I will look up a guide is after I have figured out for myself what abilities I want and want to see what others are doing, or if I am really stuck on a quest after hours of looking and just need to figure out what they mean by the brook by the nobby hill under a tree will you find my heart.
Dreconic said:I did not mean to say gimmicks in a bad way. Just that it is something that is not required, and that you can do if you want to. I am like you I love exploring and getting off the beaten path. Only time I will look up a guide is after I have figured out for myself what abilities I want and want to see what others are doing, or if I am really stuck on a quest after hours of looking and just need to figure out what they mean by the brook by the nobby hill under a tree will you find my heart.
Sorry it came across as you were like one of those elitist type of guys that basically just reads up guides/forum info etc. I hate dungeon spoilers, where's the fun in it? Also I like to choose my own abilities and spells.. that's also one of the fun parts to an mmo is figuring out you're class/the way you want to play yourself. The only time I look up a guide or help is if I'm stuck on a quest and my guild doesn't know... but then again they always tell me to google anyways... atleast nowadays.
Makes me think that if only we could disconnect from the internet and still be connected to Pantheon so we couldn't spoil the game for ourselves.
I understand what everyone means by trying first and then looking up the answer later. Though I remember as a kid playing RPGs on our Nintendo. I'd spend hours running around in circles trying to find the right spot to go next. Talking to everyone in town etc. I however don't remember it being frustrating and I certainly couldn't go look up the answer on the internet. Though once I did figure it out or find my way it was a super awesome feeling to finally move forward.
Hoping they bring back the vague quest text that made you explore and use your brain. I also hope I can have enough willpower to not try to look up the answer.
Nimryl said:The only time I look up a guide or help is if I'm stuck on a quest and my guild doesn't know... but then again they always tell me to google anyways... atleast nowadays.
I hate this mentality in WoW. You can't join a raid unless you watched the fight 5 times on youtube and have these 10 add ons and have at least this gear score. When you only have ten slots you can afford to be picky...
Niien said:Makes me think that if only we could disconnect from the internet and still be connected to Pantheon so we couldn't spoil the game for ourselves.
I love how even today I can find items in EQ and be like what is this for, go to Alla's and they don;t even know, a few post be like "Is this for a quest?", "Is this vendor junk" etc lol!
Dreconic said:Nimryl said:The only time I look up a guide or help is if I'm stuck on a quest and my guild doesn't know... but then again they always tell me to google anyways... atleast nowadays.
I hate this mentality in WoW. You can't join a raid unless you watched the fight 5 times on youtube and have these 10 add ons and have at least this gear score. When you only have ten slots you can afford to be picky...
Agreed. How can you be satisfied of defeating content if you didn't learn it yourself? One guild I was in for a while was just a bit over 1 expansion behind the leading edge content but we made it a point of learning the content ourselves. It's a matter of pride for us.
The nice thing with Pantheon is, at least for those who will try to stay on or close to that leading edge, will be required to learn the content on their own. I, for one, look forward do that that.
Liav said:They're neat, but they don't work well in MMORPGs. The development time required to implement them is very expensive time/effort wise, and once it gets discovered it generally gets posted online and all of that effort is now wasted because it is no longer a hidden feature.
I do like quests that require unconventional means to complete though, like puzzles and such, but with the qualifier than something is randomized about it that prevents it from being completely trivialized by online wikis.
Well, depending on lvl of build, the development time for such mechanic is nil (weeks/months). Within VRi's build of Unity, One can most likely make a workable lock door and lock pick mechanic, and then tie it to a character hook such a "lock pick skill", in a weeks time. I'll wager the OP's list was already on VRi's minds & already in the design doc for Pantheon, if not already baked into alpha.
Tweaking the mechanic will take longer than building it.
Given closer look to Brad's "Grand Vision".. his context reveals he is in favor of open-ended gameplay. And content such as locked doors, chests, etc.. would define certain classes...! So expect to so more of that open-ended character play in Pantheon. Much-more-so than any other game either any of us have played. Again, false floors, poison arrow traps, pitfalls, pressure plates, icy surfaces, etc.. will be part of Pantheon's depth. It is classic D&D stuff.
Plus, everything the OP asked about already existed in EQ and Vanguard one way or the other...
I think simple false doors aren't too difficult to build (like a wall you can simply walk through). Mechanism like levers however require scripting and thus are probably more "expensive" to create.
That said, I hope to (not) see all sorts of hidden doors, fake floors etc in Panthon! :)
Hieromonk said: Well, depending on lvl of build, the development time for such mechanic is nil (weeks/months). Within VRi's build of Unity, One can most likely make a workable lock door and lock pick mechanic, and then tie it to a character hook such a "lock pick skill", in a weeks time. I'll wager the OP's list was already on VRi's minds & already in the design doc for Pantheon, if not already baked into alpha.Tweaking the mechanic will take longer than building it.
Given closer look to Brad's "Grand Vision".. his context reveals he is in favor of open-ended gameplay. And content such as locked doors, chests, etc.. would define certain classes...! So expect to so more of that open-ended character play in Pantheon. Much-more-so than any other game either any of us have played. Again, false floors, poison arrow traps, pitfalls, pressure plates, icy surfaces, etc.. will be part of Pantheon's depth. It is classic D&D stuff.
Plus, everything the OP asked about already existed in EQ and Vanguard one way or the other...
Even if the “locked door” is widely known, or if the path to obtaining the key is also known, there will be many people that either can’t pick the lock or don’t have the key.
And that’s OK. What happens then is that a zone-wide chat begins because that character/group needs someone else to help them out. And isn’t that exactly what we want? To help each other out and play WITH other people/characters?
I think it’s the little, and I mean little when we’re talking about door locks and keys, things like this that foster inter-character dependency and build the social aspect of the game. I’m all for it, and I’m pretty sure they are already in the game.
Just think about how much love and hate that the invis floor in Black Burrow caused... I remember my first time falling down the hollowed tree. I was scared and it required a few people's help to drag my corpse afterwards. I even remember helping others who fell to the same fate! :)
Niien said:Just think about how much love and hate that the invis floor in Black Burrow caused... I remember my first time falling down the hollowed tree. I was scared and it required a few people's help to drag my corpse afterwards. I even remember helping others who fell to the same fate! :)
LOL. Been there, remember that exact same thing.
Niien said:Just think about how much love and hate that the invis floor in Black Burrow caused... I remember my first time falling down the hollowed tree. I was scared and it required a few people's help to drag my corpse afterwards. I even remember helping others who fell to the same fate! :)
One of my scariest moments ever was falling through the floor in Najeena...into a cell no less!
xtnpd said:Niien said:Just think about how much love and hate that the invis floor in Black Burrow caused... I remember my first time falling down the hollowed tree. I was scared and it required a few people's help to drag my corpse afterwards. I even remember helping others who fell to the same fate! :)
LOL. Been there, remember that exact same thing.
my first corpse was lost to those piranhas!