striderida1 said:I liked EQOA a lot because there wasn't really many quests, only a few throughout the game, i.e. epic weapon quest. I think WoW kind of started this bad trend of putting in 10000000 "collect X and turn into Y" quests. At the end of the day, i would guess the majority of quests people just click through them without reading anyway. When ever i watch twitch streams of people playing MMO's they are usually skipping all the quest dialogs too. I just feel like quests are really boring over all no matter how interesting the quest mechanics. It would be nice to bring back the days of XP camps and to just do away with the 1000000 turn in quests model. Having a quest every few levels maybe for a new spell, new weapon etc would still be nice. but please, oh please, don't shove 1000000 quests down are throat. Anyone else feel this way too with the current trends of quests in MMO's?
Better yet, just have an open world, in which every goes a different direction.. if a certain someone happend upon a certain NPC and had the right faction & had a talk with that non-player character, in doing so the NPC might let something slip..
A keen player may notice it... and thus quest starts.. a thirst for the unknown.
* ... the unknown echos in your mind *
Personally, I like questing. But I agree, I dont like the shopping-list kind of quest that you guys are talking about: the kill 10 and rinse/repeat.
Questing gives a starting point to the question" what should I do today?" and gives a reason to reach out to strangers. " would you help me with this quest?" - which, was a spam line in my language mini-macro ha ha.
But if there were to be ONE shopping list kind of quest; oh please make it based on the joke for coders: Coder's Significant Other sends the Coder out to the store with the followig request. " Get a loaf of bread, and if they have eggs, get a dozen!" the coder comes back with 13 loaves of bread.
heh, where the coder is the PC- it could be andy kaufman-esque in its humor ( which i dont really like) in that people would be handing in a loaf and eggs, and being told it was not the thing needed. Only cool geeky coders would get it- haha and bring 13 loaves of bread ( or would it be 12? hmmm?!)
I'm pretty sure they plan to make quests meaningful, in depth, and not mundane. From what I've heard they seem to be opposed to kill/fetch quests...
http://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q28
I'm hoping for challenging in-depth quests such as the Griffon questline from VG. That is by FAR the most challenging and satisfying questline I've ever completed in an MMO.
Amsai said: Ok could you expand on that? The only thing I can think of is your maybe just completely against all quests no matter how they are designed. Because you should have gathered that I dont want xp hubs or even quests that give xp at all. If you are against any and all quests then I suppose It clarifies the meaning of your post. And if that be the case then all I can say is not having properly designed quests in an MMORPG is an excuse for lazy game design and I whole heartedly oppose such rubbish. This game isnt supposed to be a sandbox last I checked? Further more you just want to go out and kill mobs and get xp and loot? I must have missed the part where this game was a glorified Diablo clone so you can go kill random mobs and they pop out epics like a pinata.
You are joking right? I hate to break it to you man, but this game is supposed to be the sandbox of all sandboxes? lol? If you think a sandbox MMO where open world raid bosses drop loot is like Diablo then you either A) Have never played any of the original sandbox MMO's i.e EQ, EQOA, Vanguard etc B) You never played Diablo either to know how to compare the two types of genres. or C) you are young and all you have to base your MMO experience off of is hand holding them park MMO's like WoW...
I like a world where the npc's have requests and are willing to award you. However I despise the quest hub that leads me through a zone. It leads you to always be looking for something, instead of looking around. It's like driving somewhere following a GPS. Sure, you get there... but you still don't know how to get there.
striderida1 said:Amsai said: Ok could you expand on that? The only thing I can think of is your maybe just completely against all quests no matter how they are designed. Because you should have gathered that I dont want xp hubs or even quests that give xp at all. If you are against any and all quests then I suppose It clarifies the meaning of your post. And if that be the case then all I can say is not having properly designed quests in an MMORPG is an excuse for lazy game design and I whole heartedly oppose such rubbish. This game isnt supposed to be a sandbox last I checked? Further more you just want to go out and kill mobs and get xp and loot? I must have missed the part where this game was a glorified Diablo clone so you can go kill random mobs and they pop out epics like a pinata.
You are joking right? I hate to break it to you man, but this game is supposed to be the sandbox of all sandboxes? lol? If you think a sandbox MMO where open world raid bosses drop loot is like Diablo then you either A) Have never played any of the original sandbox MMO's i.e EQ, EQOA, Vanguard etc B) You never played Diablo either to know how to compare the two types of genres. or C) you are young and all you have to base your MMO experience off of is hand holding them park MMO's like WoW...
About the Diablo Part, yes I was joking! I was using that to show how misunderstandings happen to Krixus who instead of responding to me properly and better explaining his point only responded back with a short quip that didnt explain anything. So I used his orignal post as reference to the Diablo comment. I greatly doubt he actually wants Diablo. The point is he never properly responded to me so Im still left to wonder why my first post in this thread upset him.
As to you sir, you have jumped to conclusions about my age, and my gaming experience. I know exactly what type of game Diablo is and I know exactly what type of game EQ is. I myself played AC and FFXI for years. But on the sandbox issue I have to roundly disagree. Its true that these games were very different from modern Themeparks, but Themeparks they were. Oh sure you could make the argument they have more sandbox like features than a modern themepark, and maybe call them such things as Sandparks or Themeboxes. But just try claiming these game are sandboxes in any of the major MMO forums like MMORPG or MassivelyOP, etc and you will be shot down. And If Pantheon is being based off any of these oldschool games and from the description of the features and the posts/articles I have read from the devs are any indication, then this will be a classic style Themepark with a few Sandbox like features. So I hate to break it to you but this will not be the sandbox of all sandboxes and to claim that is just plain wrong.
Sandbox: A box full of sand. The devs supply the sand and the players do anything they want within it using it. Basically the devs give the tools and the players go anywhere, and do anything from killing other players and ANY PCs even important ones. Also you should have the ability to completely change the environment such as cutting down trees, building anything anywhere, crafting everything (no dropped gear). This is what a sandbox should be.
I like the hidden quests. You talk to an NPC you have enough faction there might be more dialogue that depending on your answer offers a quest. Not a quest that gives you half a level of exp but a quest that might give faction or an item or open more quessts in a line that eventually gives you an item. No ! over the head in hazard yellow saying come do my simple un imaginative quest/job and you'll get half a level. I prefer the EQ way as well turn in belts from orcs etc.
I dare to say.. that most MMORPG newcomers to Pantheon won't even know how to find a quest. They will not know how to engage a NPC and learn from them enough to piece a hint together. MUD style.
In Terminus, it may end being a quest... just to find a quest. As, they will not be started by clicking on a NPC with an Icon over their head.. You will have to engage the NPC in discussion. And other than basic quests, you'll have to piece things together yourself, before finding an actual quest. That was essentially how EQ was before you could look them up.
In Pantheon...?
I think with randomness and other mechanics, a wiki will only become generalized over time, because quests can have different paths, or requirements, etc. And I am sure Visionary Realms has some crafty ones in store for a few of us who figure them out.
striderida1 said:Amsai said: Ok could you expand on that? The only thing I can think of is your maybe just completely against all quests no matter how they are designed. Because you should have gathered that I dont want xp hubs or even quests that give xp at all. If you are against any and all quests then I suppose It clarifies the meaning of your post. And if that be the case then all I can say is not having properly designed quests in an MMORPG is an excuse for lazy game design and I whole heartedly oppose such rubbish. This game isnt supposed to be a sandbox last I checked? Further more you just want to go out and kill mobs and get xp and loot? I must have missed the part where this game was a glorified Diablo clone so you can go kill random mobs and they pop out epics like a pinata.
You are joking right? I hate to break it to you man, but this game is supposed to be the sandbox of all sandboxes? lol? If you think a sandbox MMO where open world raid bosses drop loot is like Diablo then you either A) Have never played any of the original sandbox MMO's i.e EQ, EQOA, Vanguard etc B) You never played Diablo either to know how to compare the two types of genres. or C) you are young and all you have to base your MMO experience off of is hand holding them park MMO's like WoW...
Are YOU joking? Since when has everquest been considered a sandbox type mmo? It certainly is more of a sandbox than say WoW but it also is not what is generally considered a sandbox mmo.
I think there are three problems with quests as they are often done, and they are not problems with quests, but problems with how they were implemented.
1) Giving more experience for doing a quest than you would for just killing stuff. If the average guy can get more experience doing quests then you've just forced them into doing quests to keep up the experience rate.
2) Filling up the game with pointless quests just so you have something to jusitfy being out there killing stuff. I understand that, but there's no point in thousands of quests that are mindless and stupid.
3) They tend to encourage soloing. I've seen mechanics to share quests, but that doesn't really encourage grouping. I don't think I've heard of anything that actually made them encourage grouping. To do that you'd have to get something more from helping with a quest than you would not helping.
I think there should be quests. Big, significant quests, like epic quests, or a handfull of class specific quests for great spells, or class specific items, but they should be rare not something you do all the time. Something you do a fraction of the time. They can add variety to the game, but they shouldn't take over the game.
I love quests, I like quests for large groups, personal etc.. I do not although think leveling should be based on quest completion.. It would be hard to explain the feeling of sitting in Lguk for days on end, groups on end, wipes, etc.. Trying to get the FBSS.. The comraderie and friend ships made at that one camp alone.. Running around collecting things to level is ok but what is more important is the reward, the experience should come from fighting.. I am sure they will balance things out.. Remember experience as lets say a "Ranger" and developing his abilities does not come from collecting flowers.. It comes from battle, shooting a bow, using your sword..
Thanks for listening,
Skezix
Seen a couple things people brought up that reminded me of some things I liked.
I liked in Rift the zone events that happened that spawned a quest for everyone to participate in. I don't think that happens enough in some games. Have an outpost get attacked and people have to fight the mobs off... something like that. Make it GM controlled so that they can see an outpost where players are, and spawn the event.... rather than having the game attacking empty cities.
I also agree that, if someone is a quest giver, the ? above the quest givers head should not be there. Make people talk to people... remember and write down names. Have the "Quest Journal" just be an empty text editor that we can put notes in that we garner from our conversation.... ok maybe that is a bit much, but it would force people to read quests thoroughly and put more than one braincell to them.