I tend to blow past them, until I get stuck then I would go back and read something. (Reading was never a favourate past time for me).
I do start out reading to see how they are constructed if they have interesting content but if it is the usual kill 5 of these or collect 10 of these, then i just click the accept button for all quests then work out which to do from quest logs.
Back in the EQ days you had to read them and respond some times to the NPC's
I enjoy finding and reading lore books in game. The lore is absolutely integral to a "world" feeling for me, so I hope that it will be accessible to the "normal guy". Often much of the interesting lore is hidden behind difficult group or raid encounters, which can lead to "gaps" in the available lore (if you don't raid for example). Understandably you will learn most about the mad wizard when you visit the mad wizard's laboratory or library, but stories about the worlds history should be available more readily.
As for quest texts, I also like reading through these. However, recent MMOs have dampened my enthusiasm since they a) throw hundreds of quests at you, and b) many of these "quests" are more of the same you've done already. In addition, the quest dialogues of today's games lead to a simple click and accept mentality. All of this should be far less pronounced in Pantheon (fewer but meaningful quests, quest text has to be read because you need to get the next keywords to ask the NPC). I'm certainly hoping this will help :)
That said, I would like to ask wether it is already more clear how you will handle those keywords: Will there be highlighting for them? Will you be able to click a keyword instead of typing it? There was a discussion on this a while ago, but I think there was no "final word" on this topic :) IMO its a good idea to highlight the keywords in the quest text. Otherwise it will be too easy to miss quests. However, clicking on highlighted words again might lead to the "click through" mentality (otoh, lets be honest...who will type full sentences for every keyword?).
Completely agree with Sarim. Lore is very important for me in an MMO, and I love to read the text for interesting quests. Unfortunately, in most games now interesting quests are few and far between- they're typically mixed in with hundreds of generic "Kill 10 x" quests with text that tells you nothing of the world, and the good ones are getting rarer.
Another issue for quests is the fact that objective locations are simply shown on the map now in every game I've tried recently. Back in vanilla WoW (my first MMO, missed out on EQ), I enjoyed reading the text and finding out where to go for it. Like being told about an NPC to talk to west of the camp, or the Defias Messenger patrolling the road I have to hunt for. Now? Quest texts don't even tell you where to go; if you turn off the quest helpers on the map (if you even still can) you just have no clue where to look.
But given what I've read so far about Pantheon, I'm not too worried that it'll have quests I'd love to read. If quests are fewer and more meaningful, I'll already be very interested since there's no boring filler mixed in with the good quests. Plus the keyword system should require reading, and the lack of detailed maps should require you to read the text to find out where to go. All in all, Pantheon's current plans are already very good in this regard.
Boulda said:I tend to blow past them, until I get stuck then I would go back and read something. (Reading was never a favourate past time for me).
I do start out reading to see how they are constructed if they have interesting content but if it is the usual kill 5 of these or collect 10 of these, then i just click the accept button for all quests then work out which to do from quest logs.
Back in the EQ days you had to read them and respond some times to the NPC's
Lol, there is nothing wrong with that at all! :)
KCRiley said:I've done both... I paid attention to everything in Vanguard and TOR, but skipped most things in WoW and WildStar. Other games have been somewhere between.
I only wish I knew what made the difference, though. :/
Yes, that is a good point KC, it's that special something that just draws you in, our Pantheon team seems to know what it is ;)
Sarim said:I enjoy finding and reading lore books in game. The lore is absolutely integral to a "world" feeling for me, so I hope that it will be accessible to the "normal guy". Often much of the interesting lore is hidden behind difficult group or raid encounters, which can lead to "gaps" in the available lore (if you don't raid for example). Understandably you will learn most about the mad wizard when you visit the mad wizard's laboratory or library, but stories about the worlds history should be available more readily.
As for quest texts, I also like reading through these. However, recent MMOs have dampened my enthusiasm since they a) throw hundreds of quests at you, and b) many of these "quests" are more of the same you've done already. In addition, the quest dialogues of today's games lead to a simple click and accept mentality. All of this should be far less pronounced in Pantheon (fewer but meaningful quests, quest text has to be read because you need to get the next keywords to ask the NPC). I'm certainly hoping this will help :)
That said, I would like to ask wether it is already more clear how you will handle those keywords: Will there be highlighting for them? Will you be able to click a keyword instead of typing it? There was a discussion on this a while ago, but I think there was no "final word" on this topic :) IMO its a good idea to highlight the keywords in the quest text. Otherwise it will be too easy to miss quests. However, clicking on highlighted words again might lead to the "click through" mentality (otoh, lets be honest...who will type full sentences for every keyword?).
I am the same Sarim, and I can't really speak about it in detail yet as the team is still working on questing and aspects of lore but once I have more information available, I will be sure to let you know :)
Eldryth said:Completely agree with Sarim. Lore is very important for me in an MMO, and I love to read the text for interesting quests. Unfortunately, in most games now interesting quests are few and far between- they're typically mixed in with hundreds of generic "Kill 10 x" quests with text that tells you nothing of the world, and the good ones are getting rarer.
Another issue for quests is the fact that objective locations are simply shown on the map now in every game I've tried recently. Back in vanilla WoW (my first MMO, missed out on EQ), I enjoyed reading the text and finding out where to go for it. Like being told about an NPC to talk to west of the camp, or the Defias Messenger patrolling the road I have to hunt for. Now? Quest texts don't even tell you where to go; if you turn off the quest helpers on the map (if you even still can) you just have no clue where to look.
But given what I've read so far about Pantheon, I'm not too worried that it'll have quests I'd love to read. If quests are fewer and more meaningful, I'll already be very interested since there's no boring filler mixed in with the good quests. Plus the keyword system should require reading, and the lack of detailed maps should require you to read the text to find out where to go. All in all, Pantheon's current plans are already very good in this regard.
Yeah, absolutely, and you are right to not worry, the game and it's lore are in very good hands ;)
Kilsin said:How important is a games' Lore to you, do you stop and read books and quest text or just blow past content and ignore it to get to the rewards? :)
It depends on the game. I read the books in Skyrim, but I didnt read any of the books in Rift - not a single one. If the game is going to be a "quest grinder", I rarely read the quest text. This is usually compounded by the fact that most quest grinder MMO's highlight your objectives on the map, or on the tooltip for the mob.
I hope that quests are fewer in number, great in significance, and more about the end reward than exp gain. Combine this with no objectives marked on your map, and everyone will be reading quest text out of necessity.
For me personally, I only care about the overall lore and if it makes sense - not so much the minute detail located in books and scrolls found throughout the world.
This example is being pulled from memory and hearsay only so please please correct me if I'm wrong!
I believe when EQ released with Kunark the Gods (Tunare, Cazic Thule) were actual Gods. You were able to go into their planes and slay them. And then in a later expansion (I'm not sure which) it turns out they were only the "images" of the Gods and they weren't the actual Gods themselves which allowed for them to return to other content.
I understand that some of those changes are unavoidable (For practicality reasons) as it's much easier to change the Lore to fit content where needed - but it's only those type of lore changes I care about. Now, when it comes to Tunare's "second cousin, once removed on his mother's side" and he is actually the "second cousin, twice removed on his mother's side" - I applaud your thoroughness of detail - but bluntly put - makes no difference to me. :D
-Furor
Dekaden said:Kilsin said:How important is a games' Lore to you, do you stop and read books and quest text or just blow past content and ignore it to get to the rewards? :)
It depends on the game. I read the books in Skyrim, but I didnt read any of the books in Rift - not a single one. If the game is going to be a "quest grinder", I rarely read the quest text. This is usually compounded by the fact that most quest grinder MMO's highlight your objectives on the map, or on the tooltip for the mob.
I hope that quests are fewer in number, great in significance, and more about the end reward than exp gain. Combine this with no objectives marked on your map, and everyone will be reading quest text out of necessity.
I was exactly the same in both Skyrim and Rift, I actually just started a new Skyrim playthrough the other day and was trying to see if there is any books I haven't read yet! I started reading quests in Rift when I Beta tested it but it quickly became a chore as did the gameplay, for me anyway ;)
Furor said:For me personally, I only care about the overall lore and if it makes sense - not so much the minute detail located in books and scrolls found throughout the world.
This example is being pulled from memory and hearsay only so please please correct me if I'm wrong!
I believe when EQ released with Kunark the Gods (Tunare, Cazic Thule) were actual Gods. You were able to go into their planes and slay them. And then in a later expansion (I'm not sure which) it turns out they were only the "images" of the Gods and they weren't the actual Gods themselves which allowed for them to return to other content.
I understand that some of those changes are unavoidable (For practicality reasons) as it's much easier to change the Lore to fit content where needed - but it's only those type of lore changes I care about. Now, when it comes to Tunare's "second cousin, once removed on his mother's side" and he is actually the "second cousin, twice removed on his mother's side" - I applaud your thoroughness of detail - but bluntly put - makes no difference to me. :D
-Furor
Yeah, that is fair enough man, the bigger Lore base is pretty much the most important, the smaller/filler stuff is just added immersion and tries to set the theme/mood most of the time but if it isn't done well, it can have a negative effect on us :)
I think the availability of lore helps in immersion and character development with well executed game lore really defining the genre. I enjoy reading quest text and getting to know the world, figuring out how my character would react to different situations and factions.
Obviously lore is critical on a fundamental level for world building to ensure a cohesive story with depth and interesting npcs. The problem lately seems to be that games are not presenting that lore in a way that is meaningful to the player experience. In some games lore is presented at a grand scale that the player has little connection too. There is an ageless war being fought in some far off land now please go out and kill 10 kobolds for me. In other games lore is hidden away in random books that bare no relevance to the world as it stands.
I would like to see more lore driven dialogue in quest text, lore based decisions that affect how a player may approach completing a certain task, and hints to areas of significance that may cause a player to go explore new regions.
Dusty tomes in necromancer's laboratory may refer to an arcane item in a long forgotten graveyard. Researching more lore from npcs and other tomes may help piece togther the story of the item, where it is, and how to use or destroy it. If a player simply kills the necromancer and moves on he would miss out on the added adventure. It takes thought and a little reading to gather the whole story.
Without EQ's keyword model, I'll admit, I rarely read the quest text, but it's not that I don't like lore. I like learning the history of the game world; however, I prefer when the lore is more integrated/abstract and not so /read 1000 quest tomes or library books.
Lore can enhance the ambiance/immersion of the game-world. Such as NPCs talking amongst themselves about the horrors of such and such location, or being able to talk to Essential/Non-Essential NPCs who may discuss different locations, or looting dusty tomes/journals about an adventurer's journey to such and such location, and, when you arrive at the location, the mood is set by the music, sound (groans) graphics, lighting, eeriness, and text (You can hear the echoes of... etc. etc.). Then, your experiences at that dungeon/cave/etc. almost adds to the lore itself because you have your own "horror" stories of that location (think Unrest in EQ).
It's integral to the game experience for me. I guess I'm weird but I almost always read all the npc dialog. Used to be that you had to to know what to do. :) I'll read books in-game when I find them or save em for when I have some downtime. I've already spent an evening reading all the race and lore info on the website. I wish there was more there. I may have to do it again. :)
Lore obviously has its purpose in games such as MMO’s, but I think Lore can play an important role in Pantheon if done correctly. As an example when Lore is shared with players from Items, NPC’s or even amongst players (yes, lore is basically storytelling and players can tell some whoppers…) but I would like to see Lore play a part in exploration. If I find a lore based item such as a map that tells of an ancient location that is hidden away deep in the Jungle (remember City of Mist???) but no one can see it or enter the zone without first gaining access to a map and exploring the Jungle in search of it. This could be done using one of WOW”s technologies “Phasing” that exposes the ancient location after a trigger is flipped by someone using the lore from the map to find the exact location and actually explore there.
I like knowning the backstory of people and places, especially when they are invovled with a quest. Starting out, I delve into lore to determine starting factions so I know who/what to avoid early on (remembering that all actions have consequences). I also understand that lore cannot be an unchanging thing, that it actually a living breathing entity and changes to lore happens over time. That is how lore is created, stories become legends and legends become myths and those myths combine into the oral history of a people or place.
Where I have problems with lore is when a whole backstory of Lore is just suddenly created just to introduce a new player race. I was never so pissed off with EQ1 as when the Frogloks became a playable race and their entire history was just suddenly there as if it had been around since release. Trolls kicked out of Grobb and moved to Neriak? Horrible lore.
The other problem with lore is when you see constant one-upsmanship. The gods in EQ1 were supposedly the most powerful beings, they created the universe and everything in it...but wait, who are the Muramites? and how are they more powerful than the gods? If you're going to say something is all powerful, don't then throw out something mundane and mortal that makes the all powerful immortal diety look like an orc pawn.
As I posted on Twitter, the games lore means a ton to me and really determines if I will be playing the game or not. The games systems can be great but if I am not interested in the world or the story I will not be playing. Likewise, I have been know to play games considered by most to be sub-par because the lore of the world is so good.
I like lore but I guess I prefer that I see it in action and not by reading tomes I have to assemble. For example I could read about some ruins in some far off place and promptly forget about it because I have tons of other things to do and remember. Or I could stumble upon some fantastic ruins and want to know what happened to the civilization that created them and actively look for the story. I need to discover lore, not have it force-fed to me.
Marilee said:I like lore but I guess I prefer that I see it in action and not by reading tomes I have to assemble. For example I could read about some ruins in some far off place and promptly forget about it because I have tons of other things to do and remember. Or I could stumble upon some fantastic ruins and want to know what happened to the civilization that created them and actively look for the story. I need to discover lore, not have it force-fed to me.
/agree :)
I enjoy lore - but more from the perspective of setting the scene rather than telling the whole story. That is - if, say, dark elves have some sordid or horrid back story... knowing that back story generally, for me is good. It sets the scene. Knowing every little detail of that back story - I'm not really that interested.
Beyond that, I've enjoyed story driven games - but at some point that gets to be too much. For example, I was enjoying the story lines in TESO... but at some point you start thinking "Am I watching a story or playing a game?"
I was never lore heavy or all that into lore, especially for quests. I will probably echo what a lot of other people have said but I like the lore to exist but don't need to know it. I think the problem is when lore doesn't exist there is often time no why and then everything afterwards can feel manufactured. Thinking back though I think I paid more attention to the lore in Vanguard and EQ2 than I did in EQ. It is completely possible that I was older and more patient when I played those games (I picked up EQ when I was like 11 or 12) but I actually think the quest archs caught my attention a little better, especially in Vanguard.
All that being said, I have read every single bit of lore that Joppa et. al. have pushed out. :)
cram9030 said:I was never lore heavy or all that into lore, especially for quests. I will probably echo what a lot of other people have said but I like the lore to exist but don't need to know it. I think the problem is when lore doesn't exist there is often time no why and then everything afterwards can feel manufactured. Thinking back though I think I paid more attention to the lore in Vanguard and EQ2 than I did in EQ. It is completely possible that I was older and more patient when I played those games (I picked up EQ when I was like 11 or 12) but I actually think the quest archs caught my attention a little better, especially in Vanguard.
All that being said, I have read every single bit of lore that Joppa et. al. have pushed out. :)
I also enjoy the story to be revealed as the quest progresses but I can see where it's nice to have multiple lore aveneus for those that enjoy those things :D