So, we all know that these days when you log into an MMO without a guild tag over your head, you are likely to get spammed with guild invites. We also know that general chat will be filled with guild advertisements that lead to an invite as soon as you ask for one.
But this was not my first experience with guild admittance. I remember the process I needed to go through to join my guild in EQ...
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-- I had to find a sponsor within the guild (meant grouping with them, becoming someone they liked spending time with)
-- I had to submit a written app to the guild
-- I had to gain 10 regular member votes and 3 officer votes within a given time frame (you earned these by grouping with guild members and getting to know them / getting them to know you)
-- I had to go through an interview with a guild officer... or more than one if multiple guild officers decided to do an interview.
-- I had to not have any no votes of significance... or a significant number of no votes in general
-- I was on probation for a certain period of time
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Your sponsor was actually important to your application. In agreeing to be your sponsor, they were taking on some responsibility to get you in guild groups so that you could meet people - AND - because they were vouching for you, they were more or less putting their name on the line for you. Nobody really wanted to say "Hey everyone, group with this guy... he's cool!" only to have that person end up acting badly with guild members. You were careful about agreeing to sponsor someone.
Only after all of that was I an official guild member. All of that was for a reason. My guild had a very good reputation and wanted it to stay that way.
My questions for you
1) If your guild had something like this, what did you think about it when you went through it?
2) If a process like that resulted in a guild full of people you generally liked, would you want it for your specific guild?
3) Would you want Pantheon to be a game that fostered an environment where a stiff application process became the norm for guilds to do?
1. The last major Endgame guild I was in did have it but it didnt apply to me. I was appoached by a friend who had vouched for me and they desperately needed a Ninja Master! So that worked out so well I became a co-leader eventually. My Endgame Guild before that I did have to go through a long process, which I didnt mind, but I was always a tool and never part of the family, and thats why that didnt work out.
2. Sure! Why not. I always liked my last Guild best because of 3 simple rules, that were fairly strictly enforced. No drama! No religion! No Politics! Kept things nice and smooth. (On a side not though everyone was very sarcastic and we all gave eachother hell. Good times)
3. I dont think it should become required or the norm. Whatever works. I also think its probably easier for social/casual guilds to just go with the flow a bit more.
4. Worst case scenario? /kick function.... can I have it?
The list of hoops you had to go through was the same experience I had in VG and other games too and I absolutely love that process, not only did I enjoy going through it to apply as a member but I also enjoyed applying it to applicants when I was the guild leader, it works so well for this type of game and I know a lot of guilds (including the one I am a part of) will continue to use this process in Pantheon.
We will release more on guild functions later, but I can say that basic functions like /kick should be included in the guild management tools at some point.
It will, of course, be up to the guilds themselves to either enforce this type of application process or something completely different that better suits them and their guild, but it is one of the main reasons a lot of guilds push applicant's to their personal 3rd party guild websites to get them engaging in posts with other members, introducing themselves, reading guild rules/guidelines, group/raid strats, alliances, events etc.
I'll never forget my first "interview" in a tavern in Holtberg (in AC) to join the first guild I was ever a part of. I asked as many questions of the guild leader as he did of me. After a few beers we went adventuring and just generally hung out for a few days. I eventually joined the guild but there was a process and it was relatively lengthy. It was very cool, getting a guild invite spammed to me as I run by just doesn't compare. That was back in '99 and every member went thru the same thing. They had to be vouched for and had to spend a couple weeks adventuring, as often as possible, with guild members. Then assuming they got along with the group they would be invited to join, there was a ceremony and they became an initiate member. We even had unaffiliated players who hung out with us all the time who chose to wait to join the guild because they wanted to make sure the guild was right for them! Lol that's unheard of today.
That group stayed together for years through multiple games because we were selective. Most of us became friends outside of mmos and I'm still in touch with some today. What reputation we had in-game was good and we had quality members. As time went on and some of us moved into WoW we got less stringent and really, the atmosphere wasn't conducive to that same sort of thing, but for whatever reason our group wasn't the same, there was drama, relationships less strong and eventually people moved on.
Would I like to see that become the norm in Pantheon? I wonder if that sort of recruitment would be viable today in Pantheon or any mmorpg. Most recruiting seems to be done on message boards these days versus spending time with a player in game. I'd like to think that can happen again, I think guilds and the community would be stronger for it but I have my doubts, time will tell.
I absolutely support not only an application process but an interview process.
I was originally invited into a guild as a friend of a friend of an officer. My guild at that stage was not structured and was full of people who had gravitated together but had no real direction. Once the leader decided he wanted to move into raiding in a structured way, the guild instantly had issues. Level of skill of players, level of dedication of players, actual personlity conflicts that of course until tested never seem to exist.
I was quickly made raid leader and my application/interview process started very simply by getting everyones actual thoughts about what they want and i discussed with them what we were attempting to do and where the officer base was heading. While we accommodated everyone who was already a member we started tightening the doorway in. In time with our desire to move to a much more raid focussed guild, the core officer group moved on and started a guild with advertising on realm forums and links to applications. We wanted to ensure we were getting members that were of a like mind. however, anyone who has done recruitment in real life knows that the application is the beginning not the end.
After vetting applications and declining many at that stage (server reputation killed many an application early), or obvious restrictions on play time etc we would contact people and run an interview on vent. this was able to explore answers given in app and also let us get a general feel of who they were. we were also clear that if both parties agreed for an invite - that there was a mutual trial period. a kinda no strings period to see how the 'fit' worked out. This period was never expressly disclosed as in some cases we took a bit more time to sort out 'guild personality' vs ' raid personality'.
My single commitment to my guildies was that the guild was home and noone should be made to feel uneasy, unwelcome, targetted, villified......i ran a pretty strong conflict resolution process and had a committee style guild mgt approach. Obviously there were certain things that received no leniency.
tldr and in response to the questions:
1. as a leader it was invaluable (not surefire in any way but great)
2. in the main yes the guild was full of like minded both game intentions and socially (i found a good guild forum helped this aspect) which let me make some long lasting friendships.
3. i hate guild invite spam and believe it beacame the norm because of the need to level guilds and people were willing to just take breathing bodies that would contribute guild xp. I think controlled guild search function that allows people to find guilds of their taste and facilitates application is the go. i would prefer this more formal approach.
4. Kick function - is a must are a range of administrative functions.
Ensuring a proper fit by going through a rigorous and involved recruiting process is invaluable. How well your guild functions is wholly dependent upon how well the guildmates get along. Having similar mindsets and approaches to the game can minimize if not completely stop so many harmful issues that arise in guilds that mass-recruit.
P.S: I'll be looking for a guild dedicated to seeing all the content Pantheon has to offer (though not necessarily having to see it first).
1) I thought any guild that would take anyone sight-unseen wasn't a guild worth being in. It so happened that my most rigorous app process ended up being the best guild I was ever in. Hard to call that a coincidence. I personally liked it. I liked the fact that we didn't have a revolving door of guildies who you never talked to or grouped with. We were small, but we got a lot of cool stuff done because membership had tight rules.
2) Yes, any guild I am in should have a very stringent membership process. PUG/spam/zerg guilds are nothing more than another spam channel in my chat that I have to block/ignore. Further ahead to be indy and solo while I wait for PUGs.
3) I hope P:RotF fosters an environment that weeds out script kiddies, zergs, and ADHD knuckleheads such that proper guild membership is the rule rather than exception. Definitely.