End game content / instances for smaller groups say in 3, 5 not just the big massive raids. No dailyes.
Crafting - by reaching the top level in say tailoring an additional skill slot opens up where you can go and learn xyz crafting skill as well.(from lvl 1)
Some sort of giving birth to a sibling (better than just an alt).
At some point a World event happens which makes certain different races turn against / come together on each other, so your rep is changed with them and have to 'start' rep again. "you are no longer welcomed in this land" sort of thing.
End Game content is kind of a big deal. It's where you keep or loose your player base. There should be planning in place to provide content updates on a regular basis. It doesn't have to be a complete expansion every year, but scheduling small updates like adding a new dungeon will go a long way toward maintaining the longevity of the game. That being said, things I would like to see at end game are;
1. Sufficient Raid Dungeons. I also enjoy scaleable dungeons; party size/intended level, party/max level, raid/max level. You get more bang for your buck and it can provide a way to tier loot for a particular faction/attunement if dungeons are tagged that way.
2. Epic Quests. Weapons, crafting, class specific quest lines.
3. GM/World Events. Outside of the standard events there should be random GM or world events specifically for end game. Who doesn't like a surprise seige.
3. Alternative Advancement. AA has always been a good way to keep players logging in at end game by providing an opportunity to specialize your character even further.
4. Achievements. I know not everyone will be sold on them, but I am a completionist and will happily run around the world to earn all exploration, combat, and faction achievements.
5. Faction. Rather through daily quests or other methods, maxing out faction is something I do at end game to gain access to unique titles and gear.
Tuhart said:End game content / instances for smaller groups say in 3, 5 not just the big massive raids. No dailyes.
Crafting - by reaching the top level in say tailoring an additional skill slot opens up where you can go and learn xyz crafting skill as well.(from lvl 1)
Some sort of giving birth to a sibling (better than just an alt).
At some point a World event happens which makes certain different races turn against / come together on each other, so your rep is changed with them and have to 'start' rep again. "you are no longer welcomed in this land" sort of thing.
Some pretty cool idea's you have there Tuhart :)
Azotate said:End Game content is kind of a big deal. It's where you keep or loose your player base. There should be planning in place to provide content updates on a regular basis. It doesn't have to be a complete expansion every year, but scheduling small updates like adding a new dungeon will go a long way toward maintaining the longevity of the game. That being said, things I would like to see at end game are;
1. Sufficient Raid Dungeons. I also enjoy scaleable dungeons; party size/intended level, party/max level, raid/max level. You get more bang for your buck and it can provide a way to tier loot for a particular faction/attunement if dungeons are tagged that way.
2. Epic Quests. Weapons, crafting, class specific quest lines.
3. GM/World Events. Outside of the standard events there should be random GM or world events specifically for end game. Who doesn't like a surprise seige.
3. Alternative Advancement. AA has always been a good way to keep players logging in at end game by providing an opportunity to specialize your character even further.
4. Achievements. I know not everyone will be sold on them, but I am a completionist and will happily run around the world to earn all exploration, combat, and faction achievements.
5. Faction. Rather through daily quests or other methods, maxing out faction is something I do at end game to gain access to unique titles and gear.
Nice Azotate, some of those we already have (Faction, GM/world events, raids,m epic quests etc. :)
Check out the FAQ for more http://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/
Not in any specific order of importance...
AA's - these just give you something to always be working toward and keep you logging in even when its not raid time.
A death penalty that makes it so you don't just cap out at max level and never have to gain exp again. If you die a lot without exping you should regress.
A good variety of raids from beginner to extremely advanced... some of the hardest mobs may not even be beatable yet.
Mobs and zones that require special circumstances to even be there doing that. Like low oxygen, extreme heat, mobs that can only be damaged with special poisons, high mountain peaks with blizzards and low visibility, dungeons so deep you dont even really know how far it goes.
Rare drop abilities that really are strong... like when you got Torpor for your eq1 shammy ... dang what a game changer.
Complex quests that trigger world events as they play out.
PvP server.
Non Instanced Guild Halls. These could be huge plat and resource sinks.
Planes.
Thanks for asking Kils,
Kiz~
To simply echo the already listed stuff with a bit more detail - more epic faction based stuff like gaining high amiable-to-max ally with Queen Di'Zok, Yelinak, Tormax, etc and doing quests for raid bosses.
I would LOVE to see an end game tradeskill recipe that required me to get max ally with Innoruuk (lord of Hate) who would then give me a quest chain that ended in a recipe for some absurdly complicated amulet that wasn't so much powerful in stats as it was simply one of a kind, super rare, clear indicator how serious your t00n has worked a faction, etc. The Coldain ring/shawls were a good beta version of this, and Queen Di'Zok jewelry was as well, but I always felt like that could have been taken so much further.
Tie epic weapons to such things. Consider, the absurd (at the time it was still required) key quest for Veeshan's Peak in Kunark. OK, those dragons were all on Ring of Scale faction (remember all that spam in Mistmoore). So let's say that part of your epic requires max ally with Phara Dar, who you can't even talk to until you do that wretched key quest, and maybe she sends you to speak to Aaryonar on her behalf, and then Aary gives you a class specific task, but that task will have very serious repercussions for you.
Something like that. Have raid zones and their boss mobs be something more than a target for the zerglings. Give them faction, quests, dialogue, etc. Make killing them a serious choice with legit plus/minus consequences.
tl;dr - Raid bosses with more purpose than waiting to be zerged.
Azotate said:End Game content is kind of a big deal. It's where you keep or loose your player base. There should be planning in place to provide content updates on a regular basis. It doesn't have to be a complete expansion every year, but scheduling small updates like adding a new dungeon will go a long way toward maintaining the longevity of the game. That being said, things I would like to see at end game are;
1. Sufficient Raid Dungeons. I also enjoy scaleable dungeons; party size/intended level, party/max level, raid/max level. You get more bang for your buck and it can provide a way to tier loot for a particular faction/attunement if dungeons are tagged that way.
2. Epic Quests. Weapons, crafting, class specific quest lines.
3. GM/World Events. Outside of the standard events there should be random GM or world events specifically for end game. Who doesn't like a surprise seige.
3. Alternative Advancement. AA has always been a good way to keep players logging in at end game by providing an opportunity to specialize your character even further.
4. Achievements. I know not everyone will be sold on them, but I am a completionist and will happily run around the world to earn all exploration, combat, and faction achievements.
5. Faction. Rather through daily quests or other methods, maxing out faction is something I do at end game to gain access to unique titles and gear.
/Agree :)
I'm personally hoping for a lot of story based group content. Thinking of truly long, epic quests (epic not only in the sense of "do this to get your epic weapon"). Quests that you do not only for a reward, but instead just because its COOL to do them, because they tell you stories about the world etc.
I like raiding too, but I hope that Pantheon will not be another "get to max level in group mode, then switch to raid mode" game.
Azotate said:End Game content is kind of a big deal. It's where you keep or loose your player base. There should be planning in place to provide content updates on a regular basis. It doesn't have to be a complete expansion every year, but scheduling small updates like adding a new dungeon will go a long way toward maintaining the longevity of the game. That being said, things I would like to see at end game are;
1. Sufficient Raid Dungeons. I also enjoy scaleable dungeons; party size/intended level, party/max level, raid/max level. You get more bang for your buck and it can provide a way to tier loot for a particular faction/attunement if dungeons are tagged that way.
2. Epic Quests. Weapons, crafting, class specific quest lines.
3. GM/World Events. Outside of the standard events there should be random GM or world events specifically for end game. Who doesn't like a surprise seige.
3. Alternative Advancement. AA has always been a good way to keep players logging in at end game by providing an opportunity to specialize your character even further.
4. Achievements. I know not everyone will be sold on them, but I am a completionist and will happily run around the world to earn all exploration, combat, and faction achievements.
5. Faction. Rather through daily quests or other methods, maxing out faction is something I do at end game to gain access to unique titles and gear.
I love everything that I see here! Agree to the max!
Kilsin, I do have a question however. I know some people are against instances but without them how do you guys plan to create raid encounters that are engaging and require a lot of technical strategy to complete?
I mean any boss can be killed by just zerging it and if you allowed an entire zone to attack a raid boss it will turn into Guild Wars 2 and their pathetic world events. They are fun the first time but when I do them I just set my auto attack and walk away. Not very fun.
Here are some things I have thought of... Some of these have been mentioned but let me discuss what would keep me active at max level (until expansion hits)
1. AAs (Alternate Advancement) Points / Skills - There needs to be a good chunk of AA points that are only available at the max level. This is always fun to build up by doing your raiding and group content. These upper AA tier opportunities need to scale and not be super fast to obtain, since there will be lots to do as mentioned below.
2. Raid and Group content Access Quests - Why not offer an epic quest style for a key(s) to access some specifc high level zones. These will unlock and be available once a character reaches that max level. Kind of like Vex Thal key in EQ but a little more involved. Something that requires group activities for rare loots etc... I do not suggest these keys involve Raid content to solve.
3. Special Mount Quest Line - I was thinking this would be available to all classes by completing an epic style quest line once they reach max level. Once you obtain x, it would unlock the mount vendor and you can choose the epic mount of your choice. This would be something pretty nice and would obviously have to be better than any mount previously obtained.
4. Unlock an additional tradeskill option - (this is assuming that one player can not master in ALL tradeskills). Now at max level, you can choose an additional tradeskill to level up for that character. This would certainly add to the enjoyment and play time of a max level character and would be considered a "perk" to many that enjoy this stuff.
5. Special Fishing Trophy - At max level this trophy can be earned (through various fishing activities) and will allow a player to enter fishing contests , quests throughout the world. I am hoping that fishing can contribute to something "key" in this game and provide a good reason to participate.
6. Opens a Trinket slot in inventory - Was thinking at max level, this would open up a trinket slot in characters inventory. This trinket could have many possibilities, let me give some examples of... First idea, the player can aquire special class specific trinkets that offer unique traits contributing to the character's skill mix. Second idea, this trinket could be obtained be solving a line of new dungeons (think of this like a mini LoDN series), would take some time, and then build in power as new expansions become available. This would be very good reason to participate in those high level dungeon crawls, not matter what expansion is live.
7. Opens a Cloak slot in inventory - Instead of trinket, could apply to a cloak instead. A cloak would be a visible achievement, with many different style options.
If I think of more ideas, I will add to thread...
I think the first point is that there has to be sufficient end game content at launch to keep players busy until the next push of content. That, or the leveling curve needs to be sufficiently stiff such that players won't reach cap by the time the next content push comes... because the death of many a recent MMO is players reaching cap and feeling like they completed the game - or that the game was too broken to "complete" - before more content was launched.
I fully endorse the idea of some means of "forever progression" for my avatar - I want something that will make me feel like I can advance my avatar every single time I log in. This likely means AA.
I don't like dailies. No, that's not accurate. I hate dailies. That's accurate.
I think in the world of "there won't be solo content and group content, there will just be content" - there should be content that is still harder and easier... with harder content requiring more people, more skill, or both - and rewarding better stuff. But I should also be able to to kick back with 5 friends and go do a dungeon that we all enjoy... knowing that doing so may net me something tangible, and WILL net me that AA or whatever.
Azotate said:End Game content is kind of a big deal. It's where you keep or loose your player base. There should be planning in place to provide content updates on a regular basis. It doesn't have to be a complete expansion every year, but scheduling small updates like adding a new dungeon will go a long way toward maintaining the longevity of the game. That being said, things I would like to see at end game are;
1. Sufficient Raid Dungeons. I also enjoy scaleable dungeons; party size/intended level, party/max level, raid/max level. You get more bang for your buck and it can provide a way to tier loot for a particular faction/attunement if dungeons are tagged that way.
2. Epic Quests. Weapons, crafting, class specific quest lines.
3. GM/World Events. Outside of the standard events there should be random GM or world events specifically for end game. Who doesn't like a surprise seige.
3. Alternative Advancement. AA has always been a good way to keep players logging in at end game by providing an opportunity to specialize your character even further.
4. Achievements. I know not everyone will be sold on them, but I am a completionist and will happily run around the world to earn all exploration, combat, and faction achievements.
5. Faction. Rather through daily quests or other methods, maxing out faction is something I do at end game to gain access to unique titles and gear.
I'd like to add housing to this almost perfect list. I like to collect items and build stuff so giving me the tools and location to do so would be amazing. Allow me to make my home public, if it's instanced, so players can visit. I love EQ2's model for this.
sdcord said:A raid that requires an Oculus or something similar. Maybe associated with the Dark Myr.
No way, no how. I get so sick in those VR devices.
Edit: If that's what you meant.
Rallyd said:
#2 no raid size caps.
I've always felt that raid cap sizes could be 'soft' to allow dynamic raiding. For example, the more players the more enemies spawn. Eventually so many enemies are spawning that you simply cannot just add more players to defeat it. This would allow raids of different sizes on the same encounter (to a point) but also allow raids with different player# soft caps be put in. Not every guild can raid 72 people and not every guild member wants 24 man raids.
Develop the game to be as flexible as possible.
After thinking about this, Campaigns would be something quite neat. Somewhere in the world, a BAM (Notorious Monster/Big A** Monster/Hunt Mobs, etc etc.) spawns leading a group of it's followers. It would technically be a "raid" type that doesn't always exist, and is basically roaming, and has several different "boss" monsters that could be in charge of these types of Campaigns.
Angrykiz said:Not in any specific order of importance...
AA's - these just give you something to always be working toward and keep you logging in even when its not raid time.
A death penalty that makes it so you don't just cap out at max level and never have to gain exp again. If you die a lot without exping you should regress.
A good variety of raids from beginner to extremely advanced... some of the hardest mobs may not even be beatable yet.
Mobs and zones that require special circumstances to even be there doing that. Like low oxygen, extreme heat, mobs that can only be damaged with special poisons, high mountain peaks with blizzards and low visibility, dungeons so deep you dont even really know how far it goes.
Rare drop abilities that really are strong... like when you got Torpor for your eq1 shammy ... dang what a game changer.
Complex quests that trigger world events as they play out.
PvP server.
Non Instanced Guild Halls. These could be huge plat and resource sinks.
Planes.
Thanks for asking Kils,
Kiz~
Yeah, nice points Kiz and Alternate Advancement is also another good one is done properly ;)
Venjenz said:To simply echo the already listed stuff with a bit more detail - more epic faction based stuff like gaining high amiable-to-max ally with Queen Di'Zok, Yelinak, Tormax, etc and doing quests for raid bosses.
I would LOVE to see an end game tradeskill recipe that required me to get max ally with Innoruuk (lord of Hate) who would then give me a quest chain that ended in a recipe for some absurdly complicated amulet that wasn't so much powerful in stats as it was simply one of a kind, super rare, clear indicator how serious your t00n has worked a faction, etc. The Coldain ring/shawls were a good beta version of this, and Queen Di'Zok jewelry was as well, but I always felt like that could have been taken so much further.
Tie epic weapons to such things. Consider, the absurd (at the time it was still required) key quest for Veeshan's Peak in Kunark. OK, those dragons were all on Ring of Scale faction (remember all that spam in Mistmoore). So let's say that part of your epic requires max ally with Phara Dar, who you can't even talk to until you do that wretched key quest, and maybe she sends you to speak to Aaryonar on her behalf, and then Aary gives you a class specific task, but that task will have very serious repercussions for you.
Something like that. Have raid zones and their boss mobs be something more than a target for the zerglings. Give them faction, quests, dialogue, etc. Make killing them a serious choice with legit plus/minus consequences.
tl;dr - Raid bosses with more purpose than waiting to be zerged.
Nice ideas Venjenz, I like the crafting one especially :)