I'm curious if other people have thought about what they want the in game map to be like.
Personally, I think it'd be awesome to have in game maps that don't show your character's position at all, so you have to navigate by landmarks again. Maybe you have a sort of 'map book' and you need to purchase / find / quest for some maps. I think FFXI did this to some exent, probably other games, too. I think navigation by coordinates could still be a feature, though maybe there would be a more graceful way to implement it than /loc. It might be cool to be able to draw or put some custom notes / markers on the map as well.
On a related note, I'm also curious if people are interested in seeing something like the sense heading skill make a comeback.
Huge fan of being able to fill in markers and notes on your own map, and not having a mini-map. You build your awareness as you travel and take notes along the way. I think you can see a marker where you are on the map but the map is void of most everything. It would be neat to find random torn notes that when used, fills in portions of your map or landmarks.
Pyye
rojo said:I'm curious if other people have thought about what they want the in game map to be like.
Here are a few options to answer your question. I believe there were even more threads which have since been locked as of the launch of these new forums.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/988/world-maps
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2003/maps-and-mapping
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1766/ordanance-survey-style-maps
Nikademis said:rojo said:I'm curious if other people have thought about what they want the in game map to be like.
Here are a few options to answer your question. I believe there were even more threads which have since been locked as of the launch of these new forums.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/988/world-maps
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2003/maps-and-mapping
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1766/ordanance-survey-style-maps
Thank you Nika, you saved me from posting them and there is more that are archived ;)
Those results are from typing "Maps" into our forum search function, I would ask that people please use it to search from topic before posting as more times than not, there will already be discussion on this and we want to keep it all consolidated and easy to find for new members and veterans alike.
I think you guys need to tweak your search algorithm. I typed "map" into the search box before creating this post, and I would expect to have those results show up, but they didn't. e.g. LIKE 'map%' rather than a strict search.
Also, typing 'map' shows a post that's private, presumably from a champion / vip forum. Those probably shouldn't show up for us plebeian knights.
rojo said:I think you guys need to tweak your search algorithm. I typed "map" into the search box before creating this post, and I would expect to have those results show up, but they didn't. e.g. LIKE 'map%' rather than a strict search.
Also, typing 'map' shows a post that's private, presumably from a champion / vip forum. Those probably shouldn't show up for us plebeian knights.
Bazinga!!! ;)
rojo said:I think you guys need to tweak your search algorithm. I typed "map" into the search box before creating this post, and I would expect to have those results show up, but they didn't. e.g. LIKE 'map%' rather than a strict search.
Also, typing 'map' shows a post that's private, presumably from a champion / vip forum. Those probably shouldn't show up for us plebeian knights.
All three are links to "General Pantheon" topics, anyone can read them, only supporters, champions and VIPs can post but typing "Maps" is what returned those thread results for me. I wouldn't post, endorse or direct you to subforum threads that you are locked out of ;)
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/search?query=Maps&type=forum_topic&submit=
Give people a blank canvas in-game and tools to draw stuff on it, and have that as their map.
Then give then the ability to sell maps, and the buyer can have several different maps for the same zone, and in the UI select which one to display. This extends the in-game economy with another kind of stuff to sell.
@Kilsin Yeah, I understand you typed 'maps'. What I was driving at is that from a user perspective typing just 'map' should return those results as well. Otherwise people are going to have to type every single permutation of a word to make sure they aren't double posting. I'm not sure if you're a programmer or not, but LIKE 'map%' is MYSQL speak for "find any results with a word that starts with 'map'. Right now the search algorithm says "find any results with exactly the word 'map'." My suggestion isn't a perfect solution by any means, but it's probably better than what's currently implemented.
Alternatively or possibly additionally you guys could search the content of posts / threads instead of just the titles, which is what is happening now I'm guessing.
rojo said:@Kilsin Yeah, I understand you typed 'maps'. What I was driving at is that from a user perspective typing just 'map' should return those results as well. Otherwise people are going to have to type every single permutation of a word to make sure they aren't double posting. I'm not sure if you're a programmer or not, but LIKE 'map%' is MYSQL speak for "find any results with a word that starts with 'map'. Right now the search algorithm says "find any results with exactly the word 'map'." My suggestion isn't a perfect solution by any means, but it's probably better than what's currently implemented.
Alternatively or possibly additionally you guys could search the content of posts / threads instead of just the titles, which is what is happening now I'm guessing.
Confirmed... tested searching for "map" instead of "maps". Rojo's suggestions would be a quality of life improvement for us daily forum visitors...
... and would probably result in fewer lashings from Kilsin as well ;-)
rojo said:@Kilsin Yeah, I understand you typed 'maps'. What I was driving at is that from a user perspective typing just 'map' should return those results as well. Otherwise people are going to have to type every single permutation of a word to make sure they aren't double posting. I'm not sure if you're a programmer or not, but LIKE 'map%' is MYSQL speak for "find any results with a word that starts with 'map'. Right now the search algorithm says "find any results with exactly the word 'map'." My suggestion isn't a perfect solution by any means, but it's probably better than what's currently implemented.
Alternatively or possibly additionally you guys could search the content of posts / threads instead of just the titles, which is what is happening now I'm guessing.
I wasn't trying to have a go at you, I typed Map and Maps and got three hits, only one of the results is different and mentions our updated Atlas, but it still would have shown the other more popular Map threads and given the information you required.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/search?query=Map&type=forum_topic&submit=
I do hear what you are saying and I know it is annoying but these forums will not be around much longer, so this won't be an issue, unfortunately, we have had a lot of problems with Social Engine and are looking forward to moving away to our new vBulletin forums that we are currently in the process of setting up.
I do not expect everyone to type 10+ different variations of a word to see if it is already posted but at least once would be nice as the search function is more often than not ignored, and it makes it very hard for new people and veterans alike to find information when it is spread out across multiple threads, not to mention it is a huge pain to moderate and keep track of but again, not having a go at you directly, it was more of a general statement for others to see and be reminded of using the search function before posting in future. :)
rojo said:@Kilsin Yeah I don't think anybody is trying to have a go at anyone. I'm still not 100% sure we're on the same page, but it's fine. Looking forward to the new vBulletin forums!
I completely understand where you are coming from and know what you mean about wanting the search function having more predictive results while also including more versions of the word entered, most "normal" search functions include that as a basic standard, this one is barely working and just a reminder of how badly we want to move away from these forums lol ;)
I try to refrain from poking people about searching first as much as possible but every now and then I will pop a general reminder statement in a thread when I see an opportunity, just to give a friendly reminder to everyone who reads it that the search function is there and feeling very lonely! :)
The best map for me would be a clean sheet of paper or scroll.. You start off blank, as you travel aroud you "write down" locations , roads , caves etc. But as you progress your brand spanking new map starts to get worn out, due to usage. At higher levels your map should look like the dead sea scrolls. All torn up but still trusty and handy... The ability to save notes of locations etc. And for those who hate maps ability to remove the ingame maps.
I am very torn on this subject. Part of me liked the old EQ way of having no maps so you had to make your own or print out maps from third party sites. Part of me also likes being able to create your own in game maps as you go filling in a blank map. However, regarding the second option, can you imagine being with some people and then someone says every 30 seconds, "can we stop for a second so I can fill out a map?" So I guess part of me wouldn't mind if the world map started out blanked out and then it reveals locations as you visit them. Perhaps the more times you visit an area more and more detail could auto be added.
No matter which way is decided, it won't be a game breaker for me either way. I loved EQ and loved VG equally even though their in game map systens were totally different.
Here's what I'd like to see for maps:
* No master map by default, no "you are here" icon ever, and no mini map ever. I would consider any of these items game breaking, as they have trivialized all post-EQ MMOs to the point of not being fun.
* No "quest helper" icons unless you manually put them on a map yourself. No compass to help you get to them. No cheesy wow exclamation points or question marks over quest giver NPCs. That's way too carebear. (I liked the EQ compass that showed N/S/E/W only, with no "you are here" marker).
I think you should need to buy a compass and keep it on you, and it should only show NSEW. I also am a fan of "sense heading" as an option, to eventually replace the need to carry a compass with you.
I'd like it if there were two different options for obtaining maps. First, you could buy the map in-game either from an NPC or another player. These maps would be zone/area specific, and once unlocked, would only show what the area looks like, with no mini-map and no "you are here" compass mark. You should need to find your way with landmarks only. There should be rules in place to forbid third party add-ons which enable this feature. I also would love if there was a way to block downloading maps to your client as a mod. EQ had a good idea for making in game maps, but then everyone could just DL the "best" maps as a text file and it defeated the whole point of making your own. This should be strictly prohibitted and avoided in my opinion, as it's basically the same as having the "magic reveal all map with compass" except adding an arbitrary DL as the only barrier.
What I would LOVE TO SEE in the game would be cartography skill to "make your own" in game maps, which was an option for trade skill. As you advance, you could get more tools/colors/helpful abilities in making your maps. This way, cartographers could sell their maps to other players in-game. It would be no different than smithing or foraging as far as tradeskills go, and I think that'd be really cool. More advanced cartographers could add tons of detail to their maps making them more valuable. At no point should any map, made by a player or otherwise have a compass marker to show where you are on said map. I really can't stress enough how much I think personal compass markers ruined modern MMOs. Also, if cartography is a trade skill, it would be that much more important to make sure that you can't download a mod or make a client edit to cheat your way into obtaining a good map.
@Wandidar - They did originally say there would be no in-game map. There hasn't been much discussion for quite some time on the topic though.
@Arskien - There has been several discussions on cartography, etc. that have been archived from the 2014 threads. So, you're not the only one that has been interested in that skill.
The other idea that I proposed awhile back that I always thought would be neat is if the Kobold Lorekeeper or Strategist etc. had a rudimentary hand-drawn map that they dropped, but, you had to learn the Kobold Language in order to decipher it. And, the landmarks were based on the lore of what the Kobolds would call the areas. Annnd... if they were Ogre Strategists, maybe the maps weren't exactly accurate :).
As far as native in-game maps, I'm 100% aganist.
Here's a bad idea: train up cartograhy skill and while walking around a zone (walking..not running or doing anything else, mindfully going everywhere in the zone) and a Map Parchment is gradually filled out. But you have to have a Map Parchment for each and every zone. You then put them into a book (like a spell book) and when you go into a zone, you open the book and flip through the pages till you get the zone you want and so long as you are holding the book in your hand you can see the drawn map. Your location is not perfectly poinpointed though, merely a vague or perphaps fuzzy circle showing your approximate location.
What will happen though is the zone files will, in almost no time at all after release, be extracted into a usable form and posted up on some website. Once that happens everyone will just have the map up on a 2nd monitor.
Vandraad said:Here's a bad idea: train up cartograhy skill and while walking around a zone (walking..not running or doing anything else, mindfully going everywhere in the zone) and a Map Parchment is gradually filled out. But you have to have a Map Parchment for each and every zone. You then put them into a book (like a spell book) and when you go into a zone, you open the book and flip through the pages till you get the zone you want and so long as you are holding the book in your hand you can see the drawn map. Your location is not perfectly poinpointed though, merely a vague or perphaps fuzzy circle showing your approximate location.
What will happen though is the zone files will, in almost no time at all after release, be extracted into a usable form and posted up on some website. Once that happens everyone will just have the map up on a 2nd monitor.
To be fair, this is going to happen anyway, with or without in-game support, players are awesome at mapping out zones/dungeons/towns etc. and freehand or digitally drawing them and uploading for guilds/friends/public to view.
At first, while everything is new, everyone will be in the same boat and exploring, finding new zones, caves etc. but after a short time passes and these things become known, word will spread, websites will post strats, locations, information, guides, maps etc. and I don't necessarily think that it is a bad thing, it ultimately comes down to the player to either ignore the internet and all the spoilers or look them up and use them at their own risk of spoiling their own enjoyment, no one will be forced to search for these things but they will make their way online, quicker than you probably think in today's digital/information age.
I will personally be ignoring them and finding my own way around the world ;)
Well, it raises a point... since it's going to happen anyway - giving anyone and everyone access to maps if they want them on some fan site or other... given that (sweetheart doner not withstanding) Pantheon is being created on a limited budget - why spend some of that budget putting in an in game map system?
Wandidar said:Well, it raises a point... since it's going to happen anyway - giving anyone and everyone access to maps if they want them on some fan site or other... given that (sweetheart doner not withstanding) Pantheon is being created on a limited budget - why spend some of that budget putting in an in game map system?
There's still a point for those of us who don't want to use outside resources. Granted, I have sketch books that I use to build personal maps of the game worlds I play in (except FFXIV, jeeze that game's map just doesn't make sense).