I'm hoping that Pantheon will be more reserved in doling out particle effects.
Oh and how about no shoulder items with giant spikes ;)
I'd like to really be impressed by the first time I see a magic item. Remember way back in EQ1 when you couldn't attack wisps without a magic tagged weapon ? This feeling could even be dragged out a bit farther than that as wisps were pretty low level.
Maybe start seeing magic weapons when you hit max level /shrug
Would you rather see stuff like this saved for endgame or do you want effects on lower tier items ?
Thanks for reading,
Kiz~
I don't like magic weapons tbh. IMO any weapon should be able to hit every opponent. Some weapons (or weapon types) can be more or less effective against specific targets, but I didn't like that "immune" message in EQ.
Particle effects should be rare and special IMO. They should only be used for very powerful items and weapons.
This is just plain common sense.
Crappy items should look the part. Good items should look good. Good items should also be rare and hard to obtain.
Also, while good items should look good, they should not look gaudy, not overfilled with special effects, spikes and stuff, not like something from a comic for 5-year olds.
If I see everyone level 1-5 running around with giant flaming swords/axes and spiked shoulders, I'm gonna puke.
Particle effects should be reserved for only the best weapons and armor.
I'd like to see some unique looking items/armor, that don't have to be epic, items that one could identify on sight.
Those type of items gave a sense of accomplishment and pride when you wore them. People knew of your accomplishments simply by the look of your gear (excluding when the market floods and people buy everything). There was a sense of pride in acquiring specific class based items that gave your character a unique look.
Unlike the current run of MMOs where most don't ever even look at the items appearance, just merely it's stats, and you seldom held onto equipment long, as an upgrade was available every few encounters.
I am absolutely on board with taking the conservative approach with particle effects. Part of what makes that type of item cool is that they are rare. When you finally get to see one, it's cool. When you see them every day, it's no longer cool. The same goes for things like vanity illusions and pets.
OP, I couldn't agree with you more as far as particle effects being sparse, but weapons identified as "magic" I dont' think should only be reserved for max level content. In fact I don't think the players should feel any kind of obligation to race to max level in the first place. People should feel accomplished with their character(s) even at lower levels. The journey to max level should be a huge rewarding part of the game, as opposed to newer MMOs in which the game really doesn't start until you get to max level.
I guess what I'm saying is that you may need a special magic sword to damage a dragon but you wouldn't need that sword to fight some gnolls or orcs.
Weapons and Armor should definitely have stats before max level but I'd like the real magical stuff to be more endgame I guess.
Weapons with procs and clickies or belts with haste or crazy stuff like that should be how you progress at max level imo.
This doesn't trivialize the leveling up process it just creates a progression where you work your way from rags to riches and slowly build your character from the mundane to the magical.
Thanks for all the great responses,
Kiz~
I agree to the post. Particle effects should be reserved for epics.
On the note of "spiky shoulders" I will also agree. I always put such an emphasis on my character "looking cool", but I somehow appreciated it so much more in Everquest than I did in WoW. It's funny that would be the case because Everquest had a single appearance for plate, mail, leather, and cloth. What they did was change the thumbnail icon of the armor to make it look the part. This was cool because it made you have to inspect a person to see just how badass they really were. I think this ties in with the /con system. You may see a goblin in the distance, but you won't know how tough he is until you get a little closer and /con him first. "What would you like your tombstone to say?" ... Better keep on walking.
This is a classic MMO set in a classic medieval type of world. Keep the armor simple, yet elegant. A well-polished set of platemail is going to please me much more than shoulderpads with two dragons spitting fire out of them.
To everyone who says particle effects should be limited to 'the best' or 'the most powerful' or any other set of descriptives along those lines is forgetting one things: Eventually, guaranteed, what is considered best/most powerful/whatever will not be that way forever. Some else will come along that is better. The same goes for 'epic' weapons. Yes..there were epic and awesome...for a time. Then times changed.
"The best" or "the most powerful" will not remain unchanged throughout the life span of Pantheon.
What you should be thinking about is how appropriate is having or not having an effect to the weapon? Does the lore support it? Encourage it? If yes, then by all means give it an effect. You just don't want to go overboard putting effects on everything is all.
I think that as long as Pantheon follows a more old school, DnD'esque approach, things will turn out well. I found nothing wrong with having to locate a "magical" weapon at a relatively lower level in order to kill willowisps and eventually ghouls. It was one of your first milestones as a low level character, and it felt great. Those milestones are wonderful, and are really what made you feel the game in EQ.
Make end game important - it has to be. It must. There really isn't much arguing about that. But if you make enough of those milestones during your journey to end game, and if you make it a challenge, and punishing, that's when the journey shines through.
I agree with the particle effects. As Vandraad said, eventually those epic weapons won't be much more epic, however if you don't have Rogue Epic 1.0 shooting fireworks out of it, you can easily incrementally add greater effects and particles to it as it progresses. There are ways to improve a design without making it overbearing and glaring. As long as the greater weapons are the only ones that continue to have particle effects, the result is the same.
And, yeah, no friggin' giant spikey shoulder pads and armor that add an extra two feet to dwarves. That's silly.
=Edit= There was a conversation at some point about weapons not being the only "epic" out there in Pantheon. Armor, jewelry, etc, also playing a part on the epic stage. Should we have particle effects coming out of our epic shoes?
I agree with with the majority that a conservative approach to particle effects and magic items is best. But I don't think limiting them to end game is the answer. As mentioned above, this game is about the journey and that should be reflected in the progression of item and weapon visuals.
Absolutely a basic weapon should have no particle effects, but skins for dull, worn, re-forged, or master swords should visually reflect their condition. Same for basic armor sets. I think this reflects the player's journey better as they move from cobbled together pieces to a set they are proud to polish and show-off.
I would like to see magic items follow the same progression rules as spell visuals. Lower level and minor magic items should be kept small and infrequent, a faint glow or an occasioanl glimmer. At higher item levels or enchantments the particle effects might progress to a noticeable aura or sparks of elemental power. Truly jaw-dropping visuals would be reserved for legenadry items like a holy hammer that shines with a blinding light.
Magic items should drop as rare and legendary loot or be crafted by master crafters. Enchantments for items should contain a min level to avoid twinking. Overall, the idea is that when you run across a rare it should be a point of pride and it should visually represent that.
I completely undestand the concerns about making mundane items look flashy, and I agree. However, we're not just in medieval sim either. This is a high fantasy game, so to me it's no more unbelievable to have particle effects or spikes on shoulder armor than it is to fight orcs, or lizardmen or dragons. That being said, there is a line. To me it's sounds like it's more in the middle of the spectrum than some that have posted in this thread. There's no reason a rusty broadsword should look awesome. But by the same token if the item has the ability to magically enhance my physical capabilities (stat adjustments), then it is by its nature something that is of greater value. You're not going to take a crappy rusted breastplate and magically enchant it. You'd have to start with a base of quality and increase that quality with magic.
This doesnt mean that partical effects should be common. But I dont think it would have to be limited to just epics either, or just weapons for that matter.
Greetings.
This is something very dear to my heart and one of the many ideas and thoughts I have on this subject. We can make a huge transition in RPG Gaming, if we remove unnecessary particle effects. Particle effects should be replaces by the SOUND of the steel..! And that you will always know when someone near is fghting with a super high quality sword... by the ringtone it makes.
This transition is possible today^... you no longer need visuals or particle to simulate importance. What about a certain hum you hear when someone passes, or you /listen to the wep... rare ones might have their own sound/voice/murmer..!
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Hieromonk said:Greetings.
This is something very dear to my heart and one of the many ideas and thoughts I have on this subject. We can make a huge transition in RPG Gaming, if we remove unnecessary particle effects. Particle effects should be replaces by the SOUND of the steel..! And that you will always know when someone near is fghting with a super high quality sword... by the ringtone it makes.
This transition is possible today^... you no longer need visuals or particle to simulate importance. What about a certain hum you hear when someone passes, or you /listen to the wep... rare ones might have their own sound/voice/murmer..!
.
I think this is a great idea, frankly. Anything that can help immersion. Exploiting our senses is the best way to do so, and since we don't have the technology to stimulate our olfactory sense through an MMO, we still have sights and sounds.
However, I will argue that many of us, myself included, will most likely have the sound either off completely or very low about 75% of the time. Given that, in my case the only sense I'll have available to me is sight. I'd still like to be able to see effects.
How many of us only have time to play late at night when the kids are in bed and the wife is snoring in the next room, and we have to either keep the noise down, and headphoens aren't an option because you have to hear the babies crying? Or how many of us would just prefer to listen to our own music?
Again, love the idea. I'd love even more to have both options.
basically follow what they did in EQ1.
I loved finding out the hard way that i needed a magic weapon to kill a wisp.
I don't think reserving a bunch of stuff for max level is a good idea. that means everyone will just skip the journey and get max level.
Who wants to be lev 30 and still have cloth armor and a cracked staff and nothing else.... boring.....
What would be the point in going into a risky dungeon at lev 30 if there is no reward? may as well stay at the orc camp and grind to max level.
I agree on weapon particle effects and spiked, massive shoulder pads. Keep that crap in WoW.
I hope they do the same with armor. I remember seeing my first Flowing Black Robe. (which was in a lev 12-20-ish dungeon)
No other robe had that color or pattern. You knew what it was just seeing them run past you.
Haste items came from Lower Guk lev 30-35ish could get one. of course higher level raid mobs dropped better haste.
You don't have to make the game a snooze fest and give out nearly nothing before end game.
If I get a Flowing black robe with +5 INT at lev 17, that doesn't mean I don't want that SMR with +9 INT at lev 35, or that raid level robe at 50.
When I get that SMR, I can then pass that FBR down to a "twink" or sell it to buy a different magical item I need. INT Jewelry etc.
PS: Look, I get that this game is Not EQ 1 with new graphics. The reason I keep bringing up EQ1 is because Brad did SO MUCH RIGHT in that game, it's almost like "don't fix what isn't broken" kind of thing. EQ wasn't perfect, there is No Such Thing in MMO games. Brad made EQ. He had such a vision back then. And he has a new vision now.
I just want him to keep what he did Right, and add to it.
I am not sure about this one. If we reserve the effects to the top end gear I am not sure the will be effective. Now hear me out on this one.
If you start small or conservative on the mid-level going up I don’t think that will be a problem. I think the level of effects needs to be addressed first. I will use GW2 for example. That game is insane with the effects and hell half the time targeting is useless. I can name a few Korean based games here too. I think if the devs keep the effects minimalist and leave the higher end stuff for the epics with a curve of sorts it will be fine. We get some eye candy without having to put on a welder mask while playing.
Doesn’t the effects also help with casting and actually seeing what is happening in the heat of battle? I guess being reduced to watch the text scroll off as one thumps a target isn’t my idea of a good system.
Thoughts?
Ox
My single favorite and most cherished "anything" in EQ was my mage epic 1.0
It was the most difficult thing to achieve, the most powerful item and had the most amazing, fantastic, magical, awe-inspiring and beautiful (and silly) graphics in all of MMORPG-dom.
Seriously - I loved that skittle stick more than anything in any game ever.
Many years later I was able to buy particle effect appearance items that had more effects (in this case a druid staff with leaves fluttering all over). It was cool but just discouraging.
I want particle effects and not only at the end-game. But, I do want them to be very rare and to MEAN something.
fazool said:My single favorite and most cherished "anything" in EQ was my mage epic 1.0
It was the most difficult thing to achieve, the most powerful item and had the most amazing, fantastic, magical, awe-inspiring and beautiful (and silly) graphics in all of MMORPG-dom.
Seriously - I loved that skittle stick more than anything in any game ever.
And then there was the necro Duck Stick.... I hated that damn thing.