Factions are awesome...
I feel like ever since EQ1 I haven't cared very much about faction in games and I'd love to see a return to a heavily faction based game.
I'm hoping for an expanded system for this and not just shades of KOS.
Additional benefits and penalties at different faction levels would go a long way in my book.
For instance... Vendors limiting what you can buy based on how much they like you, agro range could be increased based on how low your faction is, maybe higher percentage chance of a mob calling for help if he really hates you, some buildings in cities could be off limits until you appease the right guilds...
Factions hits should have positive and negative aspects so as you go higher with some factions it will lower others... this makes players balance their factions how they see fit and creates character diversity.
Instead of quests giving chunks of exp +reward they should give chunks of faction +reward... I don't want questing to become a way to level quickly.
Thanks for reading,
Kiz~
I hope there's more to the faction system than grind 900 orcs in order to bank or use the vendors in an area.
I'd like to see more faction tied to achievements or quests. For example, perhaps an encampment of explorers won't sell or give you quest information unless you've demonstrated your own accomplishments exploring remote areas of Terminus. Perhaps a camp of gypsy craftspeople won't bring you into their confidence unless you're able to show samples of your own work to impress them. A guild of dragon hunters probably won't respect you unless you've got the scars and perhaps a few dragon teeth around your neck...
So far as just pure faction numbers and sliding scales, I did like how EQ handled the Velious faction where you had to commit to a particular faction group at the expense of others. I don't see sliding faction scales as a bad thing, I would just like to see them augmented with more specific achievement based elements.
Great stuff Cel... exactly what I'm talking about
Kiz~
While I am not super keen on the grinding 5000 orcs to be able to walk into Elven Studio 54 without getting curb stomped by the bouncers I would definitely like to see the return of a more complex faction system. Do THISTHINGHERE and ABC and EGBDF factions want you, LMNOP faction likes you a little less, and XYZ faction wants to drink the blood of your firstborn child. To add to this you should be able to attack and kill every single thing in the game. This **** with protected quest mobs or vendors or whatever is lame. I want merchants to see me after I have killed 30 of their friends and try to beat me to death with their fat sacks of gold.
Faction grinding is boring and kinda silly overall but I would just like to have some means of differt groups liking me more or less and having that actually impact my gameplay. I want stuff like better cost of goods, ability to sell, banking, KoS guards, offering or not offering quests, that sort of thing to be affected by faction.
Reposting from an older post (theres been quite a few threads on factions):
I think factions are an element of RPGs that has gone by the wayside. For example, just this week I was beta testing a new game and came across a number of NPCs out in the world and in cities and I couldn't help but wonder, how do these npcs regard me? Am I safe to approach them? Am I supposed to just attack them (I don't even know them, maybe we could be friends)? Can I improve my reputation with them? Is there even a reason to? This genre used to be about creating "choose your own adventures", but now you are only given the illusion of choice. Of course most games don't need a /con system, you have no real choices to make so a simple color indicator tells you everything you need to know.
The fact that the MMORPG has become so streamlined that you no longer have to consider your reputation is a sign that we've gotten off track somewhere. Alignment was one of those genre-defining mechanics that gave meaning to your actions. Its imperative for there to be a system that tracks your decisions and allows you to consider your reputation if the player is going to have a meaningful interaction with the world.
I too want to see a complex faction system. maybe even to the extent that there are quests only able to be assigned to the first person to hit max faction in a given area.
I want to be able to see different quests assigned based on faction. it should of course be difficult to do these quests as the reason they would hold out on em would be because they do not have confidence you can accomplish the quests. the faction should also not come with just leveling. i agree with the faction + reward suggestion earlier for quests. make quests just another way to gain familiarity with the npcs and get some loots.
So lets say you login to the game world and you get a quest from the local baker to kill rats in his storehouse. you get xp from killing rats, and some gold. maybe after you do the quest a few times you have enough faction with the baker / townsfolk and the baker will be willing to teach you how to cook. or tip you off to another npc witch may have a better quest with gear as the reward.
I think Factions are one of the most important aspects of a game. It truely makes the race you choose meaningful.
I mean if one race pillaged another rage in the lore. The pillager shouldn't have the ability to roam the victims lands freely without some sort of backlash. I don't think Rangers and Druids should kill animals of the forrest etc.
I'm a huge fan of factions that add complexity and make a difference, like in EQ. VG factions were added very late and honestly they did not do a good job at it. I think it was mostly to pacify gamers rather than to add complexity.
As for tracking factions, I don't know how I feel about listing out factions. I mean, I understand that the game needs a method (point system or something) to keep track of where you are with factions. But to have a UI saying "Your faction standing with the Guards of Avendyr's Pass is +262" is going to far in my opinion.
A better approach may be to list the factions you have had adjustments to (that way some are a surprise) and what your current standing is, e.g. Dubious, Friendly, etc.
I think EQ's faction system could use some tweeking. But it's almost perfect. It's there, can heavily impact your game...but...it doesn't have that "I need to grind faction" feel to it (unless if was for a quest or something). It's one of those things in the back ground that impacts how you play the game (Good VS evil races VS Iksar's); it was great.
I feel if they start rewarding for max faction, or any tier, it turns into an actual grind. EQ's faction wasn't a grind unless you wanted to get in good with a city. But start adding money, exp, gear...it all of the sudden turns' into a pseudo hub based game (WoW's faction system for example). Level here, then max faction for this city/area before I move on. All because there's a reward involved. If VR sticks to their guns and makes a complex faction system, and adds rewards? You can bet on some kind of nerf post launch. Either they make faction easier to get, because people aren't playing the game but grinding faction. Or they will take rewards out all together (you know there will be an outcry about how long it takes to grind faction). Either way, it's dumbing down the original faction system.
I just say tweek EQ's system. Fix what didn't work, and enhance what did. Perfecto. I still haven't played an MMO that handles factions like EQ did.
One thing regarding faction grind.
Factions actually weren't very grindy at all when you consider all of what you could do while factioning. You basically just chose which faction you wanted to improved, and chose that dungeon... er city, to experience and farm in. Really, unless you were solo killing the more insignificant mobs, faction went really fast. In EQ if you were killing the mobs that took a group+ to kill and turning in the higher tier items, you could max out casually in a few days.
Point being, faction should be something that matters, and ruining your faction shouldn't be something easily rectified.
As I have stated in another post, I would like to see a "hub" city between the starting areas and the main world. In this city, all 3 (or more) races come together fostering a alliance or faction. You can group with faction characters of the local starting races before venturing out into the main world. And this city should reflect the styles of the 3 races, either by assigning shops by races (Orc style blacksmith / Elf style Herbal shop) or a blending of the 3, taking influences from each race.
These 3 races combining into a single faction should be welcomed in each of the other racial cities of that faction, though not completly. You may enter a city of a different race in your faction and not be KoS but they may not roll out welcome mat and offer you all the quests in the area right off the bat, some influence or persuasian may be needed. However the KoS will still be in effect in the other racial cities and faction hub towns unless the "influence" is a high enough for that area.
What I disliked in VG was after the very cool starting areas, everyone was just thrown into the world together. I would like to see a step in between the starting areas and the big bad world.
Sullen said:As I have stated in another post, I would like to see a "hub" city between the starting areas and the main world. In this city, all 3 (or more) races come together fostering a alliance or faction. You can group with faction characters of the local starting races before venturing out into the main world. And this city should reflect the styles of the 3 races, either by assigning shops by races (Orc style blacksmith / Elf style Herbal shop) or a blending of the 3, taking influences from each race.
These 3 races combining into a single faction should be welcomed in each of the other racial cities of that faction, though not completly. You may enter a city of a different race in your faction and not be KoS but they may not roll out welcome mat and offer you all the quests in the area right off the bat, some influence or persuasian may be needed. However the KoS will still be in effect in the other racial cities and faction hub towns unless the "influence" is a high enough for that area.
What I disliked in VG was after the very cool starting areas, everyone was just thrown into the world together. I would like to see a step in between the starting areas and the big bad world.
I honestly loathe that idea, sorry to say. I'm not sure how much you've read around, but there's 9 player races so far. None of which seem to be, nor have any reason to be, friendly to one another let alone aligned. They're likely not even originally from the same worlds. There should definitely not be any kind of de facto hubs unless it makes sense in the context of the game world for some reason. These races are most likely meeting for the first time after their realms were all slammed together
I took some time to glance over the race descriptions again, and I honestly can't imagine any of the races being very friendly with one another other than maybe halflings and elves since they're typically friendly in other lores. Possibly also between the Skar and ogres, but again for no real reason other than they may bond over being evil.
This is all a key part in your racial choice mattering heavily in the world. I'm hoping for a depth of factions and politics.
Gawd said:I too want to see a complex faction system. maybe even to the extent that there are quests only able to be assigned to the first person to hit max faction in a given area.
I doubt we'd see something like that. Brad has already stated that epics weren't the best idea as they had to put so much work into the quests for a reward that so few people would ever experience . On a small team likes this, you want to make sure that the hours you have people working are going benefit the majority of the user base.
I'd like to see something done where the equipment you wear affects your faction standing with NPCs and mobs. You shouldn't be able to walk into Qeynos carrying a Qeynos guard shield.
I never liked how people in EQ magically knew your religion. However, something could be done where if you explicitly wore something that showed your religion then people would know and have a reason to dislike or attack you.
Minus my standard Plane of Fear/Hate gripes on faction, EQ1's faction system pre-Luclin was close to perfect. Had there been a way for evil characters to have the same amiable (or at least non-KoS, walk around freely at apprehensive or dubious) standing in Hate and/or Fear like good characters had in Plane of Growth, it would have been perfect.
Some faction grinds were 10,000 points a point at a time nightmares. Yep. Any of the ones that were like that had a very specific and proper reason for being that way. They weren't necessary, but there was a tangible reward in most faction grinds. Chardok jumps immediately to mind, because getting quests from a standard raid mob was pretty cool.
One thing I would love to see more games do is give a visual representation of certain faction choices, like how dark side corruption actually alters your face in SW:TOR. In EQ1, you had gods of hate, disease, nightmares, war, etc. Some sort of visual indicator that shows te benefit/detriment of increasing faction as physical manifestation would be so cool. That or add bonuses to certain things like +5% to all weapon dmg for being max ally with Rallos Zek the Warlord, or +5% chance to succeed at a fear spell for being max ally with Cazic Thule. Little stuff like that would just be really cool to do with faction.
I trust in the VR team though, because from all the posts from them, all the minutia in the world will matter. Methinks since faction really mattered in early EQ1 (the Brad era), and there was an entire subgame around faction in Vanguard, P:RotF will do OK by faction. Just going out on a limb there, but I think they'll have us faction grinders covered in Pantheon.
I remember as a Dark Elf in EQ I wouldnt hunt in Karnor because I didnt want to ruin my outpost faction...that is how faction should be. It should impact your character in every way possible. It should make you stop and consider your options...as a Druid if you hunt the Dryads in the forest how will your deity react to that?
Azraell said: If I remember right vg had a good kos system and it really makes sense to have it here. I dont want a freaking gnome walking into an elf city like we rolled out the red carpet for him. Let the stinking gnome work his way to a red carpet treatment. Let him slaughter X mobs to even out his faction to be "coo" with me.
Agree with this. :) I'll be playing a gnome hehe
I'm ready for a game where faction matters again. I'm ready for racial choices to matter. I am tired of games trying to make EVERYONE equal in every aspect. It's boring. Keep seeing some posters pushing that agenda. Really hoping Brad sticks to his guns with Pantheon. Player numbers will increase if a quality product is introduced and maintained.
I am not sure this is related, but, I kind of liked the original penalties in EQ1 where if you were a "good" race and grouped with an "evil" race there was an exp penalty. I thought that was a good thing, could be somewhat radical for the character from a RP perspective , you know, hanging around with people from the wong side of the tracks. And you better believe it did not stop me form grouping my female erudite mage with some ogre's in South ro, or Rathe mountains good times. Later on, the gang contacted me about Erudin Palace, it seems that was a city that did not have an evil underground or sewers and they were stuck treading water. I was able to invis them one at a time and get them to Toxx so they could then explore paineel and points onward. I felt so helpfull.
Manouk said:I am not sure this is related, but, I kind of liked the original penalties in EQ1 where if you were a "good" race and grouped with an "evil" race there was an exp penalty.
I do beleive that is another one of those urban legends. It may have been that way during beta, but as far as I know the game never shipped with good/evil XP penalties. Perhaps you are confusing them with race/class penalties.
Trinsic said:I do beleive that is another one of those urban legends. It may have been that way during beta, but as far as I know the game never shipped with good/evil XP penalties. Perhaps you are confusing them with race/class penalties.
No group penalty in early EQ1 for grouping with good/evil. My longest standing EQ1 foursome was 2 dark elves, an iksar, and a high elf. The iksar got the exp penalty for iksar, but we didn't have a group penalty.
I am totally onboard for a complex faction system. I really enjoyed what is often referred to as the 'Everquest Old World Faction System'. It was a complex game mechanic that really had an impact on your character's progression. It was a lot of fun trying to figure out how to raise various factions in such a way that limited any type of residual damage to other factions.
As an example, typically Katta faction moved in the opposite direction of Seru faction. On top of that, there were probably 5 or 6 sub factions within both Katta and Seru. For those who cared about faction and put in the time and effort, there were lesser known ways to raise your Katta faction without ruining your Seru faction, ect... Lots and lots of fun.
I played on Sullon Zek, so faction was also was an important advantage in PvP. I loved that as well. Nothing like having the city guards helping beat back player killers.
As a quick side note, it is important to understand that in recent years Everquest has all but eliminated faction from current expansion zones in the game. What little faction remains typically only moves in one direction, so ultimately, everyone ends up being the same. Totally dull and a huge miscalculation by the developers.
So in summary, I would love to see an elaborate faction system that rewards players who choose to investigate and put in the effort to set their characters apart from others. Class, Racial, and Deity modifiers are totally welcome. Choices should have consequences, not everyone should be the same.