The title will catch attention. The thread I hope sheds light for you and for me.
I have Alpha/Beta tested a lot of games in the past. The one that comes to mind the most is Rift. I alpha tested this game for 2 months and then was in every beta until release. I really liked the game however when the game was released I felt like it was an Old game and leveling another character did not have the appeal it once had.
The next game I alpha tested was Tera. I played this game for all of 3 hrs and never ever went back. Something there did not appeal to me and not real sure what it was tbh.
After that I got an alpha invite to Archeage. I did this a little differently. I played about 40 hours a week instead of my normal all the time type playing. After about a week I cut that back to about 20 hours a week. Then I used beta like it was a first release of the game. laying out a game plan for when the game went live so I would know what to do and not to do. That seemed to work out great as I am still playing that game. ( HATE P2W & RNG) Will never do that type of game again myself.
I tested other games like Lotro and GW2 Just did not get the hook in me like a super MMO would like VG did. I am currently alpha testing another game but do the NDA I wont even mention the name.
What is your experience with Alpha/Beta testing and which games and how did you handle them from Alpha until live and do you still play them ?
~Chaam
I have been in almost every MMO beta test since EQ2 (including EQOA, VG, FFXIV (both versions), Rift, Tera, GW2, SWG, ESO, and others). My main finding is similar to what you experienced with Rift. After playing the beta for a long time when the game finally released it didn't feel new or have that certain pull that new games have.
After noticing this a few times I started picking classes / races that I knew I wouldn't play at release , and then started playing the betas less. However due to this , and the fact that I haven't really found an MMO that sucks me in like EQ did , I'm torn on how to approach Pantheon's alpha / beta tests. I can say that one think I liked with FFXIV ARR beta tests is that they left out big parts of the story line on purpose so that everything wouldn't be spoiled. So I will most likely try and keep my play time in Pantheon limited and to classes / races I don't think I'll play at release , but you never know.
If you find yourself "spent" on a game after one play through then it's not a good game.
Alpha/beta/gold doesn't really matter if a game lacks replayability which is most MMOs unfortunately. This can be qualified in many different ways (UX, game mechanics, game systems, social constructs, money model, etc), but fundamentally the problem is that it's a bad game. It's not something you did or didn't do in testing.
This discussion feels wrong somehow... the idea that if a game doesn't hook you then you didn't do it right. The reason most modern games don't hook you is because they suck.
I think people give some of these games too much credit. I've beta tested or alpha tested most of the major titles over the years, and I generally don't even make it to launch. I just know the game doesn't have "it", whatever it is. In the case of Rift, Tera, ESO and most of the other more recent MMOs, I couldn't take more than a week of before I was completely disenchanted.
I guess maybe I'm getting old, but its uncommon for me to really enjoy games, especially MMORPGs that play like games. The MMOs I enjoyed the most, didn't feel like just a game, they felt like a world. Maybe that slower, harder, more fight to survive type of multiplayer MMO is really not popular with people in general, but thats what I'm hoping Pantheon will be. I think folks will be surprised to see how many people actually do find they enjoy that experience rather than just another shallow MMO that constantly reminds you its only a video game.
I played WOW Beta and was pretty impressed by the graphics and the novelty of flying mounts etc, gameplay was entertaining but something was missing from the game. There steak was there but no sizzle. It can be difficult to describe what is missing but you just know its something. I continued to play WOW for a bit but soon the novelty ran out and all of those "get 20 of these quests, go here quests, kill this guy quests" got old.
Enter Vanguard Beta. I really felt like that graphics of VG were amazing and the world felt very real, immersive even. I like the idea of trecking around in such a huge world with a mount, it felt like the wild west... Again though, I felt that something was missing in this world too, much like WOW's. Was it the lack of meaningful content which typically manifests as silly "go here, go there quests", or maybe the lack of player interaction and cooperation? Again, I didn't last too long with VG or give it a chance even although I can appreciate the game for what it is. Please note that I didn't try the later versions of VG only the beta, but that was enough to leave a sour taste in my mouth.
I suppose first impressions last. I originally quit EQ because I got frustrated from the reality of the world; losing corpses, xp penalty's etc. But the caveat here is that I returned to EQ years later and never left simply because of the challenge of the content and the community that was created because of it.
Chaam said:
The title will catch attention. The thread I hope sheds light for you and for me.
I have Alpha/Beta tested a lot of games in the past. The one that comes to mind the most is Rift. I alpha tested this game for 2 months and then was in every beta until release. I really liked the game however when the game was released I felt like it was an Old game and leveling another character did not have the appeal it once had.
The next game I alpha tested was Tera. I played this game for all of 3 hrs and never ever went back. Something there did not appeal to me and not real sure what it was tbh.
After that I got an alpha invite to Archeage. I did this a little differently. I played about 40 hours a week instead of my normal all the time type playing. After about a week I cut that back to about 20 hours a week. Then I used beta like it was a first release of the game. laying out a game plan for when the game went live so I would know what to do and not to do. That seemed to work out great as I am still playing that game. ( HATE P2W & RNG) Will never do that type of game again myself.
I tested other games like Lotro and GW2 Just did not get the hook in me like a super MMO would like VG did. I am currently alpha testing another game but do the NDA I wont even mention the name.
What is your experience with Alpha/Beta testing and which games and how did you handle them from Alpha until live and do you still play them ?
~Chaam
Indeed. I too was in Rift Alpha and Beta, but I had learned from EQ2 not to play too much. I loved EQ2, thought it was the best game, but I had played so much that by the time it went live I ended up leaving for WoW within 3 months from sheer boredom.
I played EQ1 beta, but it wasn't ever up enough to get sick of lol.
I was kicked out of UO beta before I could tire of it :)
The issue is, a lot of people treat stages of testing selfishly. They view it as an early release, rather than using it to thoroughly contribute to exploring bugs, creating bugs, criticizing flaws in art, design, and mechanics. I feel like a good alpha would screen its' participants better and release content more constrained and structured, rather than releasing it as open free for all game play.
i.e. you don't get to move on to a new testing area unless you have contributed in way of finding bugs, or at minimum proving a good critique of the content. It's not meant to be fun, it's meant to be helpful towards providing a polished product.
Jakeman said:
If you find yourself "spent" on a game after one play through then it's not a good game.
Alpha/beta/gold doesn't really matter if a game lacks replayability which is most MMOs unfortunately. This can be qualified in many different ways (UX, game mechanics, game systems, social constructs, money model, etc), but fundamentally the problem is that it's a bad game. It's not something you did or didn't do in testing.
This discussion feels wrong somehow... the idea that if a game doesn't hook you then you didn't do it right. The reason most modern games don't hook you is because they suck.
Good Advice here:
In Van Guard I had 6 patron Accounts with a total of 32 level 55's. Each account had 1 epic toon on it. If I were able to I would go there today and make another toon and do it all again.
That is why I follow Aradune and his team of awesome game creating and in My mind this game will only be better than the last.
Gadgets said:
The issue is, a lot of people treat stages of testing selfishly. They view it as an early release, rather than using it to thoroughly contribute to exploring bugs, creating bugs, criticizing flaws in art, design, and mechanics. I feel like a good alpha would screen its' participants better and release content more constrained and structured, rather than releasing it as open free for all game play.
i.e. you don't get to move on to a new testing area unless you have contributed in way of finding bugs, or at minimum proving a good critique of the content. It's not meant to be fun, it's meant to be helpful towards providing a polished product.
I agree with you 100%. If people are not reporting the bugs you get bad launches that get blamed on the creators. Knowing they allowed you to participate for the purpose of finding bugs and holes in the world and such things. This is where exploring the world is so handy. If your going to use these stages to race to max level then I believe your alpha/beta card should be pulled myself.
~Chaam
Gadgets said:
The issue is, a lot of people treat stages of testing selfishly. They view it as an early release, rather than using it to thoroughly contribute to exploring bugs, creating bugs, criticizing flaws in art, design, and mechanics. I feel like a good alpha would screen its' participants better and release content more constrained and structured, rather than releasing it as open free for all game play.
i.e. you don't get to move on to a new testing area unless you have contributed in way of finding bugs, or at minimum proving a good critique of the content. It's not meant to be fun, it's meant to be helpful towards providing a polished product.
Therein lies the problem. great observation.
Gadgets said:
The issue is, a lot of people treat stages of testing selfishly. They view it as an early release, rather than using it to thoroughly contribute to exploring bugs, creating bugs, criticizing flaws in art, design, and mechanics. I feel like a good alpha would screen its' participants better and release content more constrained and structured, rather than releasing it as open free for all game play.
i.e. you don't get to move on to a new testing area unless you have contributed in way of finding bugs, or at minimum proving a good critique of the content. It's not meant to be fun, it's meant to be helpful towards providing a polished product.
Good point.
I tend to test with the attitude that I want to get familiar with the basic game to eliminate my learning curve when it goes gold. This is selfish of me and is not a "tester" attitude.
However, I would note that most game companies today encourage and perpetuate this attitude by selling early access to their games, as opposed to conducting free and proper closed testing with applications and setting an expectation of constructive feedback. That is one thing I like about Pantheon is that there are indications of proper testing plans.
I decided a few years ago I no longer wanted to join extremely early beta tests much less anything in alpha.
Twofold reason - after testing for many months, the excitement on launch day is gone and I can't join in everyone else's excitement because I know what is coming and it's not a 'new' experience for me. Second part, I really started disliking the way some companies would monetize these things. It USED to be an honor and privilege to be privately invited to test a AAA game - one which you did not have to pay for to be a tester - but then, and still, it became more about marketing and special gimmicks to get people to pay money to test! And these are big companies backed by public stocks, not little indie operations. It just really destroyed not only the magic of testing - but the fun of being part of that special community (since anyone could pay to get in.)
However, I view things on Kickstarter and crowd funding as totally different. True, you do pay money, and maybe one of the perks is access to the beta or alpha phases, but these are usually independent studios with small budgets and very small teams - who are really passionate to make the game they really want to make. In this case I willingly pay money and I don't view it as a swindle or a gimmick. Case in point with Pantheon. I've also invested in Shroud of the Avatar and most recently the Igarashi venture (i.e. a spiritual sequel to Symphony of the Night.) None of these are backed by major companies (or at least not public ones although I am sure they all have angel investors backing them once they see buy in from the public, most of the time.)
But games I have beta tested in the past -
EQ2, the first 3 expansions, closed beta - EQ2 stopped doing closed betas a long time ago and now you can test anything on the test server before it is released.
LOTRO, for nearly 8 months in alpha and beta
Age of Conan, closed beta
Guild Wars 2, closed alpha and closed beta
Others I forget at this point.
Gadgets said:
The issue is, a lot of people treat stages of testing selfishly. They view it as an early release, rather than using it to thoroughly contribute to exploring bugs, creating bugs, criticizing flaws in art, design, and mechanics. I feel like a good alpha would screen its' participants better and release content more constrained and structured, rather than releasing it as open free for all game play.
i.e. you don't get to move on to a new testing area unless you have contributed in way of finding bugs, or at minimum proving a good critique of the content. It's not meant to be fun, it's meant to be helpful towards providing a polished product.
I have a related concern - in that I think today's gamers expect "beta" to be a polished sneak peek at a pretty much finished game. That is NOT what the alpha / beta cycles of Pantheon promise to be.
And so I have concerns of people violating NDA and trashing the game because it "sucks" - because they think it should fairly closely represent what will be released at launch.
Kilsin... I'm posting twice in a row - don't shoot me!
I find myself both excited about alpha / beta, and dreading alpha / beta. Excited because I want to help make the game better. Dreading it because it means the game won't be "new" to me on day one.
Still - I will test... because I really, truly want this to be a game that holds my attention or 10 years. And so I will consider alpha and beta testing a pre-taste of what will hopefully end up being a much larger smorgasbord than what is released at launch.
My approach is usually to try different classes in different starting areas - because I am a firm believer in the notion that "the first 5 minutes gets you to play 5 more, the first night gets you to play the next" for MMOs. And so I like to test for "the hook" in each starting area. I then will typically pick a class I don't think I will ultimately play at launch, and play as much of the game as possible in as many areas as possible - some nights looking for exploits - some night looking for bugs - some nights just pretending I'm playing live and looking at fun factor - etc...
I also try to look for aesthetic sorts of things... Do the wolves I just passed appear to be acting naturally? Why isn't that lion attacking the gazelle standing next to it? For that matter... why is that gazelle standing next to a lion? If I attack a goblin at the very back of that bunch of goblins... do the rest of them sit idly by, or do they all come and try to hand me my head?
I remember, for example, the day I decided to stop playing EQII (on my first run of playing EQII) - I was out harvesting. And at some point it occurred to me that I was more or less standing right next to mobs that conned red, ready to attack - foraging - and they just stood there. It was such an immersion break that I stopped playing EQII for months. So I look for those sorts of things too.
I will also regularly attack (or try to attack) vendors, townspeople, etc... in the game. I hope never, ever, EVER to see a dialog box that states "This is not a good idea idiot, move on" - because that is an indication that the developers are spending time protecting me from me - and protecting me from others... and that usually amounts to an over-sanitized virtual world.
Wandidar said:
Kilsin... I'm posting twice in a row - don't shoot me!
I find myself both excited about alpha / beta, and dreading alpha / beta. Excited because I want to help make the game better. Dreading it because it means the game won't be "new" to me on day one.
Still - I will test... because I really, truly want this to be a game that holds my attention or 10 years. And so I will consider alpha and beta testing a pre-taste of what will hopefully end up being a much larger smorgasbord than what is released at launch.
My approach is usually to try different classes in different starting areas - because I am a firm believer in the notion that "the first 5 minutes gets you to play 5 more, the first night gets you to play the next" for MMOs. And so I like to test for "the hook" in each starting area. I then will typically pick a class I don't think I will ultimately play at launch, and play as much of the game as possible in as many areas as possible - some nights looking for exploits - some night looking for bugs - some nights just pretending I'm playing live and looking at fun factor - etc...
I also try to look for aesthetic sorts of things... Do the wolves I just passed appear to be acting naturally? Why isn't that lion attacking the gazelle standing next to it? For that matter... why is that gazelle standing next to a lion? If I attack a goblin at the very back of that bunch of goblins... do the rest of them sit idly by, or do they all come and try to hand me my head?
I remember, for example, the day I decided to stop playing EQII (on my first run of playing EQII) - I was out harvesting. And at some point it occurred to me that I was more or less standing right next to mobs that conned red, ready to attack - foraging - and they just stood there. It was such an immersion break that I stopped playing EQII for months. So I look for those sorts of things too.
I will also regularly attack (or try to attack) vendors, townspeople, etc... in the game. I hope never, ever, EVER to see a dialog box that states "This is not a good idea idiot, move on" - because that is an indication that the developers are spending time protecting me from me - and protecting me from others... and that usually amounts to an over-sanitized virtual world.
That's pretty much the same approach I take. I want to know what the strength and weaknesses of the different classes are, how race effects that class, what the group dynamic is and even how they perform solo. Not that I intend to solo any particular class, but I think it provides some insight into the class.
Wandidar said:
I have a related concern - in that I think today's gamers expect "beta" to be a polished sneak peek at a pretty much finished game. That is NOT what the alpha / beta cycles of Pantheon promise to be.
And so I have concerns of people violating NDA and trashing the game because it "sucks" - because they think it should fairly closely represent what will be released at launch.
While you are very right about misconceptions regarding testing games, it's also the developers fault if they allow too many people into a testing phase when a game is obviously not ready for it.
I think VR understands this because they plan to work on smaller manageable chunks that can serve as a demo. To me, I'd much rather test a smaller portion of the game than a big empty version that is full of bugs. In this day and age, the best policy with testing your game is to first make sure all the obvious problems are taken care of and the test version doesn't leave the tester with the wrong impression. A bad experience can be overwhelming.
Wandidar said:
Kilsin... I'm posting twice in a row - don't shoot me!
Why would I shoot you mate?
Posting a quoted reply to someone and then posting a separate post with your own opinion is perfectly fine, it's when someone posts multiple separate posts with their own opinion instead of editing their original post to include the extra thoughts that makes me draw my weapon and start aiming ;)
I have to say guys I have really enjoyed this thread. I have only ever beta tested non-MMO games (though I think I might have participated in the VG open beta) and I naturally have an idea of what I look for and the expectations are but you guys have highlighted a lot of things I never thought of looking for. Also it is good to hear about some of the pit falls to avoid while testing to still be able to enjoy the release. I want pantheon to be the best it can be so I want to be able to contribute to that come testing time so conversations like these are really important for us to have as a community.
i beta tested Dragons prophet, WoW, Eq2, VG:SOH, Archeage, and Landmark
WoW archeage and landmark didnt make it past the first week of beta. beta was fun until launch.
Eq2 i think i played for a month after beta.
dragons prophet i played for 2 months after beta.
VG i played for over a year (nearly 2 i think) then got mad and left when SOE started changing / nerfing my classes
I have only had the opportunity to test one game in Alpha and that was Wurm Online...well, unless you count Landmark...which I don't. :) However, I've beta'd the following:
WoW
Lineage 2
Neverwinter
Warhammer Online
ArcheAge
Elder Scrolls Online
SWTOR
Vanguard
Rift
Alganon
LOTR
Dungeons & Dragons Online
Knight Online
Only one I still play is ESO...and that's only because there isn't anything else decent to play right now!
Never did much Alpha testing until recently, I was always to busy playing to worry about it.
Beta tested
ESO
Wildstar
VG
SWTOR
Elite Dangerous, This is my current obsession
few others
I'm currently Alpha testing a lot stuff for VR with my DK2 which I'm really enjoying.
I like to take the Beta testing slow and explore every part of the game.
Wandidar and Jakeman have good points. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? It's my opinion the stress testing of equipment led to the 'open betas' which were usually a couple of days only. When the marketing folks saw the huge numbers of people chomping at the bit to get in for only a couple of days, they began to offer "open beta" with pre-orders of the game. Now, players put out money years before a game even gets to alpha/beta. It is no fault of the players, who play the beta rather than testing it, because they are paying customers. Perhaps times are changing, but how can we call out people who are paying, rather than being paid, to help fine tune a game when they are logging in and by their very presence are helping somewhat? That is my take on it all, anyway. :)
My first beta was the first Planetside where I ended up running with a few of the SWG developers, which in turn led to an invite to Star Wars Galaxies beta. Since, I have tested so many - Frontiers, Earth and Beyond, Eve, Neverwinter Nights, Vanguard, original D&D Online, Lotro, Star Trek, EQ2 parts, EQ parts, WoW, AoC, Warhammer, Neverwinter, Rift, GW2, and others I think but don't remember right now.
Whether, or not, I actually played the game on release, and continued playing it had nothing to do with how much time I had spent in beta. The games I ended up purchasing and playing were either very good games (even if buggy at release) or had such interesting ideas, as to hold my attention for a while. Also, as Dullahan posted, it must seem like a world, not a game. If the world is immersive and unique, then I experience 'launch' excitement when I begin testing and a second burst of excitement when my friends join me in the actual launch. :)
I only ever really got into beta tests. Honestly can't remember them all, since they span a decade and a half. UO, EQ, DAOC, SWG, Earth and Beyond, AC2, SWG, Horizons, EQ2, D&D Online, Vanguard, Aion, Rift and ESO. With games like EQ I couldn't really learn enough in beta to get very far in launch, it was a struggle just to figure out what I could do. Other games like ESO where things are fairly linear the beta was kind of like a test run for launch.
Joppa said: Onward (TM).
Sorry, I just couldn't resist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Soz7u47-9rc
RIP: Chris Squire